Birdjaguar said:
It is not wild speculation at all. If anything, the history of science has taught us that the "inconceiveable" is very often made real. Is to imagine that some people might be aware of things other people are not any wilder than primitive people imagining going to the moon or genetic engineering or heart transplants? It is perhaps your fear of stepping beyond known boundaries tha blinds you to what may be instore for humankind.
To imagine it is no problem - but to suggest that it might be true without any evidence, is.
Primitive people also imagined that Gods exist, that volcanos are magical constructs, that floods are sent by the Gods, etc. How many of their "dreams" were actually reality, and how many were mere fantasy?
If you have no proof to back up a fantastical claim, it best be filed under "fantasy".
Birdjaguar said:
So there is no "real" evidence for or against, so you
guess that it therefore was a coincidence? The fact that you are guessing would imply that there is no evidence for it being a coincidence either and my claim that "coincidence is just a convenient placeholder that sounds more scientific" is likely true.
No. All the evidence we have about this event seems to suggest that it was a mere coincidence. Without any evidence to the contrary, we'll have to make an estimated guess and say that it was most probably a coincidence. When there is evidence to challenge this claim we can examine it and its merits, but until then, we can't say anything else about the event.
It's much like rolling 10 6s in a row with dice that have been shown to be 'fair'. We guess that it was a coincidence and not that invisible elves are putting my dice into place.. nor that I have superpowers and am controlling the dice with my mind.
But if there is ever evidence that it was not a simple coincidence, we could investigate the matter further.
Birdjaguar said:
But as you stated above, your label of coincidence is just a guess and not a scientific answer. Can you post an evidentiary proof that shows BE's anecdote was coincidental?
Every scientific answer is a 'guess'. It's the best guess given the available data.
The burden of proof lies on the person making the extraordinary claim. I claim that the event we're discussing falls within the already understood framework of the Universe. You claim that it does not.
If I throw a ball and it falls towards the ground and hits a very specific spot - I 'guess' that gravity and coincidence were responsible. It is the most sensible answer given what we know about the Universe. If my friend, who is standing beside me, claims that something 'magical' is going on, the burden of proof is on him to provide some evidence that his theory might be correct.
Birdjaguar said:
This example is too simplistic to explain BE story as a coincidence. And trying to apply probabilities to his dream is nothing but wild speculation of the worst kind. Keep in mind that I am not trying to prove BE is clarvoyant; I am trying to show that your claim of it being coincidental is just a guess without any of the support you demand of others.
It is a simple example, but it illustrates the point beautifully. What are the chances of 1 person rolling 10 6s in a row?
1 in 60 million or so.
How many people, on average, are going to roll 10 6s in a row if every single person on the planet rolls a die 10 times?
About 100 people.
What are the chances of you having a dream that comes true the next morning? Not very probable, right? But what are the chances of it happening to someone on the planet, considering that ~6.5 billion people are dreaming? It's bound to happen from time to time. In fact, I bet it happens every single day, to someone.
Keeping all this in mind, we now have an explanation for what happened to BE. He's one of the 'lucky' few who happened to have that sort of dream tthat night. We know that these people exist, given the above calculations.
So, the most sensible answer to this question is that yes, it was a coincidence. However, if there's any proof that it wasn't.. even 1 tiny bit of evidence that something else might be involved - we should investigate. However, there isn't, so there's no reason for us to assume that something extraordinary might be going on.
Birdjaguar said:
If answers to the bolded questions can be true than there is no reason that BE's dream could not have foretold the future.
Hmm am I misunderstanding something? Are you saying that since things like love exist, that it must be possible for people to see into the future?
Birdjaguar said:
In fact what he dreamt did happen later. What is under debate is the relationship between the dream and the event (if any). Some people here say there cannot be any relationship and others say why couldn't there be? What is missing is the how.
If we assume that they are connected one should rightly ask "How?" just like one would ask a believer in astrology "How does Saturn effect my personality? What mechanism is at work here?" ATM the only answer astrologers can provide is "magic".
In BE's case I cannot think of a known mechanism that could connect his dream to the following day's events. To claim it as true, I would have to say it was "magic". So I don't make that claim. What I am willing to say is that there could be a mechanism we are unaware of that connects the two. I could even speculate about its nature, but that would not be proof.
Yeah, and if the only cause for your theory you can come up with is "magic", then your theory will not be taken seriously, much like astrology isn't taken seriously.
) or it's a coincidence........
)
Youre actually still telling me that I have to prove precognition, when Ive said repeatedly, most recently and most emphatically on this very page, that my purpose isnt to prove anything, its to ask questions and stimulate thought about something which is a relatively common occurence.
