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ExtraModMod continued

Discussion in 'More Naval AI Modmod' started by lfgr, Jun 16, 2019.

  1. DuskTreader

    DuskTreader Chieftain

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    Two more things:

    1: A python exception from revolutions
    2: Mercurian cities run by a leader with Tolerance can't build Phalanxes and Berserkers. Look at Tiros in this save. They also can't build angel units, whereas my infernal city (Hic Jacet) can at least build an Imp (not sure about other infernal uniques) and has no problem making phalanxes and berserkers
     

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    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
    lfgr likes this.
  2. swapoer

    swapoer Warlord

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    It has been a while since my last play. I am just posting to give my though.
    After some discussion in the Realmbeyond forums, where people play competitively, It is pointed out that wide strategy is way better than tall for most civilizations. Players go wide, builds a lot of farm, research Calendar, producing lots of settlers and overlay their cities every time.
    Since food is used to produce settlers, Farms and Calendar are high priority and you can produce a lot of them.
    By having lots of cities, you have not problem in hammer since every cities have more or less some hammer. You add those little hammers up then you have more hammers in total than well developed tall empire.


    This is a systematic problem and one of the key reason behind is that excessive food is used to produce settlers. In Civ V, the first 2 pts of excessive food is converted to production for settlers. The 3th to 6th pts of excessive foods are converted at a 2:1 ratio. And you can have only 4 pts of production from excessive food at most.
    I think this feature is needed for limiting the power of wide strategy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
  3. lfgr

    lfgr King

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    I see what you mean, but such a balance change is way out of scope for this mod.
     
  4. swapoer

    swapoer Warlord

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    The idea is quite simple in math. By way out of scope, do you mean it is very hard to implement this change ?
     
  5. lfgr

    lfgr King

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    No. The implementation is probably easy. The problem is that this would be a massive gameplay change.

    First, it could affect the balance between the different civilizations. I can't name any specific problem right now, but big changes like this tend to have unintended side effects. For me, this would mean that I'd first have to identify these (possible) problems, which is hard, given that I never play multiplayer, that I'm not that good at the game, that only part of the playerbase actually gives feedback here, and, finally, that even if I get feedback it is often hard to judge, or even outright contradictory. All this is the reason why I generally try not to touch balance, except in obvious cases. Note that I would probably handle it differently if I had a larger and more active playerbase and had more time to mod and play myself, or a co-modder.

    Second, and this is the more important reason: It is not clear whether your change actually makes the more fun, or less. To me, it sounds like an interesting solution to an actual (albeit, to me, minor) problem, but it definitely still would be an experiment. And I don't want to do experiments in this mod, for basically the reasons I already mentioned: An experimental change should ideally be tested thoroughly my as many players as possible that are willing to report problems, and, ideally, I would react quickly to fix those problems and iteratively we'd get to a point where the new feature works well (or roll everything back eventually). It would not work well with how I do things currently.
    What I want that is that each version is a small improvement over the previous one, and people can be sure that the last version is not fundamentally broken in some way. That's why I focus on bugfixes and interface improvements.

    Anyway, as always, if anybody wants to do a fork or Modmod or whatever that implements that sort of thing to try it out, I'm happy to answer questions if any arise.
     
  6. DuskTreader

    DuskTreader Chieftain

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    We all sometimes feel Fear of what's against us, but let the example of this Marksman show that we can all overcome our anxieties and our foes, no matter what the rules say we should or should not be capable of :clap:.

    In all seriousness I'm pretty sure the Fear was supposed to stop the attack. It didn't, though weirdly I didn't get the combat animation
     

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  7. Tielby

    Tielby Prince

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    Location:
    The sacred and free citadel of mind
    (My last two long games have been EMM. I'll probably switch to MNAI for the next one, to see if it's also an issue over there, but my sense is that it's more specific to EMM.)

    Am I the only one who always has Beastmaster units WAY before other tier 3 units? I know I tend to fall into strategy ruts (because they're effective), and the earlier Beastmasters seemed to be more because of that in vanilla FfH2 and MNAI, but in my last 2 playthroughs, it seems more pronounced in EMM.

    (Side note: I often have Druids as my 2nd tier 3 units, so I appreciated the reduced strength of those units to balance that.)
     
  8. DuskTreader

    DuskTreader Chieftain

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    That hasn't really been my experience. My first Tier 3 units were paladins
     
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  9. DuskTreader

    DuskTreader Chieftain

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    Are magic missiles supposed to get no benefit from the Summoner trait?
     
  10. lfgr

    lfgr King

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    Yes, this is correct. Floating Eyes, Fireballs, Magic Missiles, Meteors and Puppets are unaffected, being SPECIALUNIT_SPELL units. I made a note to make this clearer in the Pedia.
     
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  11. swapoer

    swapoer Warlord

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    From my understanding, puppets last until the end of turn. They copy promotions of their summoner, so they should still have summoner promotion, right? Do Puppet’s summon last for 2 turn?
     
  12. Vintage Strategist

    Vintage Strategist Chieftain

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    Yes, 2 turns summons from puppets. You can have 2 puppets and thus 4 summons from one regular arcane unit at once.
     
  13. DuskTreader

    DuskTreader Chieftain

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    "Random Evil Leader"
     

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  14. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    that's also my take, unless I don't pursue the recon line (due to UU of civs that go in other directions).
    IIRC, even in vanilla game, Beastmasters were the cheapest tech to reach.
    further Recon are more instersting than most other lines due to versatility :

    _ higher str than all other units (until mithril : I count poison blade as allowing to counter iron weapons and flaming arrows) ;
    _ 2 mvt !! (less than mounted but stronger and cheaper and no resource and ...Etc)
    _ exploration
    _ better results
    _ higher xp due to exploration & 2mvt
    _ earliest tier 2 unit (cheapest techwise)
    _ no anti-recon promotion
    _ capture animals & beasts : happy & culture to your civ .. yeah

    the only "defect" is their limited power during conquest. but that can be offset by higher level....

    all this : cheapest tier IV tech + more interesting tier 2 tier 3 lines, makes that BM is often the earliest tier IV unit.

    however, if you need to focus religion or magic, very often your earliest tier IV is Paladin or archmage.
     
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  15. swapoer

    swapoer Warlord

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    From my understanding, puppets are not affected by summoner trait, so they die at the end of turn. So you can get 1 puppet and 2 summons from one mage.
     
  16. swapoer

    swapoer Warlord

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    [QUOTE="lfgr, post: 15682028, member: 177260
    I will also look into the PLE issue at some point.[/QUOTE]
    Just want to check in and know how the health bar above unit icons issue is progressing.
    I think this a QoL improvement. After major battle, players would choose the most injured units in stack to heal and lead lightly injured units into march. Health bar feature would obsolete the need to hover your mouse over unit icons to know which units are most injured. You can see the whole stack’s health status at a glance.
     
  17. Vintage Strategist

    Vintage Strategist Chieftain

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    Unless this is different in MNAI from base FFH, puppets from arcane units with Summoner effect last 2 turns and are Summoners themselves. You can see that in my Balseraph LP (base FFH), where I field lots of spectres out of a very few mages. There's a test in that series (although I can't remember where exactly), where I get out 4 spectres from one lone mage. By the way - with Twincast and you can have 16 summons (not counting puppets).
     
  18. swapoer

    swapoer Warlord

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    Yes, your LP is very impressive. I would never come up with the idea of upgrading level 4 servant into mage with the XP from Altar.
    It show how broken the summoner trait combined with puppet though. That is why it is nerfed in MNAI.

    Floating Eyes, Fireballs, Magic Missiles, Meteors and Puppets are unaffected, being SPECIALUNIT_SPELL units. I made a note to make this clearer in the Pedia.
     
  19. DuskTreader

    DuskTreader Chieftain

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    This time around Beastmasters were my first Tier 3 unit because I tried a new strategy different from my usual religious one.
     
  20. sohvan

    sohvan Chieftain

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    I'm having some problems with the installation. I've installed Fall From Heaven 2 and the o patch, and I can run the normal mod without issues.

    When I try to run the emm-0.6.0-beta5-setup.exe, it offers me the default directory for installation as G:\mods\ExtraModMod. I change this to "G:\steam\steamapps\common\Sid Meier's Civilization IV Beyond the Sword\Beyond the Sword\Mods\ExtraModMod" as this is where I have the Fall From Heaven 2 installed without the last ExtraModMod bit at the end. The installer gives an error message "An error occurred while trying to read the source file. The source file "\Mods\Fall from Heaven 2\"* does not exist.

    It seems like it's trying to find my installation of Fall From Heaven 2 from the wrong place. I'm running Windows 7, and the G-drive is a separate drive from my windows installation where I have my steam installation if this makes a difference. I don't know which folder it's trying to find the original files from. Is there a way to tell it where my installation is located?

    EDIT: I may have found a workaround. I tried finishing the installation while skipping all the sources files, and noticed the shortcut for EMM that was created was pointing at the root of my C-drive c:\Civ4beyondthesword.exe. I copied my original Fall From Heaven 2 installation into C:\mods\Fall From Heaven 2, and then tried running the EMM setup again. This time the installer copied all the files without issues, so it was trying to find it from C:\mods for some reason.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020

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