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An interesting interaction: a leader or civ with the Barbarian trait cannot free Brigit without declaring war on the barbarians
 

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The effect of casting declare war on barbarians in that tile was even more unexpected: the barbarian unit Brigit was killed as expected but I didn't receive a unit
 

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When I cast declare war on barbarians outside the ring and then enter I get the Brigit unit as normal.
 

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I absolutely agree you shouldn't have killed Brigit that one time, but I've always thought it made perfect sense that you couldn't enter Brigit's square without declaring war on the barbarians. If you have a level 15 unit, chances are no barbarian units are a threat anymore, and the barbarians SHOULD be afraid of your power.
 
It does also make for a story that has the right feel for this setting to me. After all many of the barbarians are orcs, who were created by Bhall's fall and would likely care if she is offended:

A group of goblins and dwarves sets out from their homeland, a culture that values tolerance, even of cultures that others would see as savage [1]. They overcome many perils [2] to reach the Ring of Carcer and free the angel trapped within. The goblins are too weak to withstand the flames and turn back, heading east to explore the nearby ruins of Letum Frigus, but the dwarf presses on.

The dwarf finds Brigit chained within the ruins, but when he strikes the chains to free her, an Azer appears. The Azer speaks with great admiration about the dwarf's many victories in the wars against the Sheaim and the Grigori. She offers the warrior a feast from the Goddess of Fire and Strength, if he leaves the renegade archangel alone.

The dwarf refuses, declaring he fought those wars to free the people of Erebus from their chains, and Brigit is no different. He speaks of the virtues of the Eloheim civilization and their Captain Uldaanor who made peace with the orcs [3]. He speaks of the bright future Erebus will have.

The Azer laughs. She reminds the dwarf who created the orcs and shows him visions of all the savage and petty folk of the land rising against Eloheim forts, scouts, and cities. Visions of the horrid bloodshed that would come about if he should offend Bhall here. How, she asks, could the freedom of one be worth the deaths of so many?

Again, the dwarf does not relent. He strikes the chains for a third time, and speaks of his devotion to Kilmorph, and to the teachings of personal responsibility and integrity. He is acting to free someone who has been unjustly chained. He is righting a wrong done to an honest being. How Bhall chooses to act in response is her responsibility, not his.

The Azer snarls, and shows the dwarf a final vision: His goblin companions and their wolf, who traveled many moons with him into this frigid waste. They stand in Letum Frigus, guided through the ruins by a lizardman. They do not see the poison knife the lizardman has in his belt. The Azer shows the dwarf his companions leaving safely with the light of the Ring of Carcer illuminating their exit in the long polar night. Then she shows their bodies dead in the moonlit snow outside Letum Frigus, a poison blade in their back. How, she asks, could he condemn his faithful compatriots to die?

We see the place where Mulcarn and Kylorin fought. We see the lizardman's eye's narrow as he clutches his pendent of Acheron. Then we do not see, because the light of the Ring of Carcer sharply dims. We do not see, but we hear a scream [4].
1: barbarians. I have both tolerant and barbarian which is how I put this motley crew together
2: my level 15 unit got taken down to very low health by a polar bear...
3: Unrestricted leaders
4: Right after I declared war on Barbarians and freed Brigit a lizardman assassin spawned and killed one of the goblins in the same expedition (the wolf rider). The other goblin survived, rejoined Brigit and my Soldier of Kilmorph, and went on to capture the bear that nearly killed them on the way south.

So yeah, it feels emotionally right for this world that freeing Brigit means declaring war on barbarians. But Brigit just dying if "Declare war on barbarians" is cast on her tile is just a bug
 
Is it intended that tolerant leaders who build Grigori buildings can't get adventurers?
 

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Is your alignment labeled "Good"? As clan of embers I think you'd have to either have unrestricted leaders enabled or adopt Order for that.
 
Is your alignment labeled "Good"? As clan of embers I think you'd have to either have unrestricted leaders enabled or adopt Order for that.
I didn't think that victory condition was limited to good civs. Is that the case?
 
Yes, it's always been alignment limited. Not sure if it's just Good or just not Evil?
 
If it works like MNAI, it's at the bottom of the mouseover city info box.
I realized you can also see it from the Revolt Status bar in revolutions.

I feel like in Advanced Diplomacy you shouldn't be able to give "contact with x" as payment in a peace treaty. It feels weird that a nation demanding a major city in tribute would accept peace with me if I introduce them to some random rebels halfway across the globe.
 
Two other issues I found. Sometimes two different civs have the same color and if their cities are next to each other there isn't a border between their lands, it looks like one civ. Also, in my game the Infernals were a vassal of Basium. It seems strange for those two to be on the same team.
 
I've noticed that the AI hardly ever founds AV, despite it being potentially very powerful (ritualists+Rosier) in the midgame. The Sheaim do sometimes, but hardly ever anyone else.
 
I see it founded a lot. In my current game it was founded by Rohanna of the Sider (unrestricted leaders). One memorable past game had the Balseraphs under Keelyn found it in the late game. They were a week nation sandwiched between me (Grigori) and the Bannor and the moment they founded it they developed delusions of grandeur and declared war on all their neighbors, getting rapidly crushed. This was a long time ago. In a different game I found out the hard way that you can't just declare war on a vassal when my vassal (Sheelba, Clan of Embers) founded Ashen Veil. She ended up summoning Hyboream, still under my protection. If your really not seeing it enabling scenario leaders and minor leaders should help: A lot of them are demons (Meresin, Juddecca, Lethe Queen of Sorrows) who won't adopt any religion besides AV and will gladly found it. In one game Judecca (of the Bannor #unrestrictedleaders) nearly won a religious victory by founding AV, then summoning Hyboream, who spread it to almost 70% of the world before I razed Judecca's holy city.
 
I've noticed that the AI hardly ever founds AV, despite it being potentially very powerful (ritualists+Rosier) in the midgame. The Sheaim do sometimes, but hardly ever anyone else.
Like Dusk said, I see it a lot. The RNG loves or hates you, depending on what you were hoping for. :lol:

Yes, it's always been alignment limited. Not sure if it's just Good or just not Evil?
I'm sure it's "not evil" for all but the last Altar. I build them all the time as a neutral civ. Not sure about the last Altar, because I never get that far. :lol:
 
Interesting! Perhaps it's a combination of a bad RNG roll plus the Sheaim not doing very well in my recent games.
If your really not seeing it enabling scenario leaders and minor leaders should help: A lot of them are demons (Meresin, Juddecca, Lethe Queen of Sorrows) who won't adopt any religion besides AV and will gladly found it. In one game Judecca (of the Bannor #unrestrictedleaders) nearly won a religious victory by founding AV, then summoning Hyboream, who spread it to almost 70% of the world before I razed Judecca's holy city.
I realized I've never actually played FFH with unrestricted leaders :lol: but will give it a shot!


Also on another note, does researching Infernal Pact not make peace with the barbarians anymore? I used to think it did - or was that only in MagisterModmod and not the base mod?
 
FYI I've made some changes to EitB - posting here as Terkhen used to copy some EitB changes over.


A further patch made for EitB55 - think v12.2 (although we're playing as v12.1), albeit with quite significant changes.

Download here and paste over your asset file to play.

I've made a version with the following proposed changes:

Spoiler :

• Elven workrate malus removed

• Balseraph Worldspell goes to normal length golden age (from double length)

• Warrens have -1gpt (I believe they already had this)

• Puppets have 0 str (from 2)

• Foreign Trade has +10% trade commerce (from 25%)

• Governor's Manor goes back to Code of Laws (from Mathematics)

  • Note: the proposed changes to re-combine Governor's Manors with Courthouses have not been made
• Pirate port and Pirate harbour lose +1c each (so they are +2/2/3 and +1/1/2)

• Stasis worldspell loses golden age

• Mobius Witches no longer buildable

• Destroy undead now does up to 60% damage to undead units (from 30%)

• New civic, Bannor state: +50% improvement growth. Membership civic (so it competes with Overcouncil and Undercouncil)

• Guardsman (Bannor Civilisation trait for Melee units) now gives +15% strength

• Drown->60h (from 90h)

• Axemen/Swordsmen/Sons of Asena/Wood Golem ->50h

  • Note Moroi/Pyre Zombies remain at 60h
  • Note Fawns remain unchanged
• Radiant Guards ->75h (from 90h)

• Diseased Corpses ->75h (from 90h)

• Soldiers of Kilmorph ->75h (from 90h), hurry amount ->37h (from 45h)

• Warriors/Bloodpet/Beastmen lose Bronze Weapons

• Soldier of Kilmorph and Paramander swap art assets (this is a EMM aesthetic change I'm fond of)



Some points on why these changes were made:
  • I wanted to try the tier 2 fixes, and gauge reaction to them, especially as there wasn't much in the thread. I felt that the slight cost differential of the Drown matches closely to the role that Moroi and Pyre's play as axemen+, whilst the other units have more significant gimmicks.
  • I'm much less confident of the bronze warrior change, but thought if I was posting this I might as well include it for others to test. Please give feedback on this before we start as it does substantially alter the balance of the whole mid-game.
  • Bannor changes - I tried to do something that would fit their economy and their strength, without breaking them. Note that if they ever go for Overcouncil they have to leave Bannor State behind.
  • I felt that the Governor's mansion would still leave the Vampires militarily weak as they were before, but able to access their key toys a little easier.
  • In other areas, I went for middle-of-the-road changes in general, e.g. to Foreign Trade and Revelry.
Let me know any feedback! To play, simply paste over your assets folder.
 
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