ExtraModMod

[Calavente]

I think we should nerf combat I-V promotions. 20% per level is too high, it makes single unit too important. Once you get a single unit of doom like lv 15 Aeron's chosen assassin with blitz and 4 movement, you win the game.

personnaly I disagree.
Strong importance of individual units is (one of) the main creed of FFHII.
the issue is aeron chosen in your case... but then, the assassin with aeron chosen becomes defacto a hero-like unit.
a level 15 hero is generaly a force of nature... so a level 15 aeron chosen hunter being one is not an issue.

(but I agree that aerons chosen is a bit too strong)

re: Drill : drill promotions are also a good way to get more xp while improving combat odds.
xp is related to actual str difference (or ratio), while combat odds take FS into account.
so you can get same odds, but better xp.. which is nice

further drill is more powerful against weaker units (a drillIV archer in city vs CR axes), allowing to resist much more to the "horde of weaker units" than a combat IV archer.
Combat IV archer is better against few strong units, and DrillIV is better against the hord
DRill > combat for weaker units
combat > drill for fighting equal/stronger units

1) Some of the new health resources seem rather tacked on, and don't contribute much.
- Bisons are already represented by cows.
- Penguins? Providing commerce? Really? I adore penguins personally, but this is really weird.
- Mushrooms being mined doesn't make sense. Plantations would be better. Also, they shouldn't appear both on map at start and by event.

2) Events - I have really bad vibes from Unicorn events. In practically all fantasy settings, unicorns are extremely good and pure creatures. It felt really weird to have my elves wanting to kill it for food of for its horn and not a single option to keep it alive.

-------------

A dark fantasy still doesn't justify "good" and "neutral" civs butchering unicorns happily, especially Ljosalfar.

Hmm, the usual would be a Happy Face for X turns, but there's already plenty of that already.

Maybe "Unicorn droppings are perfect as manure!" +1 food in a random tile in BFC.

interesting point on ressources. I disagree with shrooms... as the best shrooms "mass production" is done in tunnels, caves and mines. (edit : +fantasy lore, as said)

for unicorns: as for importance of promotions: it is a fundamental basis of FFHII: dark fantasy and "princess rule": no tiny faeries, no "gentle" unicorns... and the event is a reference to that: the only way unicorns exist in FFH is as a dead body...; or on april 1st !

re-"good" : good in FFH is not good on Earth. It only means that you are "roughly" on the side of the "un-fallen archangels". and evil means that you are roughly on the side of the fallen archangels.
bannor are not "good" in the usual term: they are fanatical tyrans.. slaying any heretics and believing in "kill them all, THE ONE will know its people".
(edit : I like what has been said: in FFH GOOD is "kill the few to save many", and EVIL is "kill many to boost a few" )
the only really "good"-ish civ is the elohim.

so while nature-loving ljos (do that exist.?), or gentle Ethne might want to keep/respect the unicorn.

that said, I think "capture/enslave them all, unicorn droppings make a real good manure" : +1F on tile might be not-evil while still being "not-good" enough to respect the princess rule... even if the unicorn is not dead .
(maybe allow it only for civs with "animal husbandry" or "Hunting")
allow a further option if you have the grove-tech : "chase/kill them and take that grove for our druids" : +20gold, builds a grove in the city.

 

[A Moon]

A dark fantasy still doesn't justify "good" and "neutral" civs butchering unicorns happily, especially Ljosalfar.

Hmm, the usual would be a Happy Face for X turns, but there's already plenty of that already.

Maybe "Unicorn droppings are perfect as manure!" +1 food in a random tile in BFC.

I'm not sure you fully understand what "good" and "evil" mean in the context of Fall From Heaven. As for neutral leaders... Look up the lore on Valledia the Even... If she butchered a unicorn for food, I'd say the unicorn got off lightly.

I think the unicorn event should have an option to spare the unicorn. Pick it, and the wild beasts attacks a nearby village, -1 population in one of your cities.

 

[Sarmatian]

Got an error while playing on MountainCoast map script at turn 286.

Autosave on turn 284. The game freezes on turn 286.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

edit: doublepost

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

the unicorn has to die

the unicorn has to die

the unicorn has to die

the unicorn has to die

the unicorn has to die

the unicorn has to die

 

[lfgr]

I've reloaded the initial save again and noticed that they just moved before me. So they do start in their forts, but they seem to leave their forts immediately for some reason.
The lizards are not doing that, the goblins seem to be the only ones.

OK, thanks. Gekko already indicated that it has to do with their UnitAI, I probably messed something up with the spawning.


Regarding the unicorn event: It's a joke, a reference to the mentioned "princess rule" (the event itself is actually called "princess rule" in the code). The third option is IIRC only active if the caster has both a kuriotate and sheaim palace, which is impossible. I could make it so that at least that requirement is visible (as a tooltip). However, this could still be interpreted as a bug.
I'm against a "nice" option in this event, since that would destroy its purpose.
But considering I didn't understand that event as well until I read about it on the forum, maybe it should be removed entirely; or at least made more clear: The last option could be "Don't kill it!" with no effect, but a message afterwards could indicate the unicorn dies some gruesome death anyway. That would keep the flavour and I think most would get the joke.

 

[Terkhen]

I also agree that the unicorn should have a good option at least for good races or at least for Ljosalfar.
It would be cool if there'd be an option to get a unicorn as unit just like the goblin event gives you a goblin.
A corruption option for dark elves /Svartalvar to get a nightmares plot would also be cool.
Still, I don't consider the event particularly important though...

I believe the point of that story is to show how crazy Balseraph are, as it mentions others who are completely shocked by what's happening.

If you don't want to change the event, limiting it to just Balseraph might be a good solution.

I searched a bit and found this thread. In there, Kael explicitly mentions that the point of the Princess Rule is precisely to block Unicorns, among other things:

I actually considered this before adding the penguins. They are definitly more whimsical than your typical FfH entry and they probably wouldnt have been added except that I personally really wanted penguins hanging out on some of the cold coastal areas in one of the "Ice" scenarios. The fact that an event got added for them is really secondary, I was trying to dress up a scenario map.

But its a reasonable question, though I dont think they truely break the princess rule as much as other things that it was intended to block (pegasus, unicorns, justin timberlake posters).

The lore entry may be showing that the Balseraphs are insane, but the main point is showing how the Princess Rule would not allow a unicorn to survive in Erebus for long.

But considering I didn't understand that event as well until I read about it on the forum, maybe it should be removed entirely; or at least made more clear: The last option could be "Don't kill it!" with no effect, but a message afterwards could indicate the unicorn dies some gruesome death anyway. That would keep the flavour and I think most would get the joke.

I don't think it should be removed; I like it

I was thinking on suggesting an option without game effect too. The text of the option could be: "We should let it go. I'm sure it will have a long and happy existence.", and after selecting that option a short message would appear, saying "After that day, no one saw the unicorn again."

Animals did attack completely at random in vanilla FfH and BtS. I changed their movement not to leave their natural habitat, maybe I broke something with the attacking odds.

Maybe Tholal added at some point some smartness to how animals choose their opponents? I did not experience this behavior, though.

Regarding penguins, I was just comparing how insignificant and rare they were in original FFH. In EMM they seem to appear much more often and are much more valuable. If it's according to FFH lore, okay.

When I found the post by Kael I quoted previously, I was surprised to find that our reasons are similar. I increased the appearance of penguins in the game mostly because I wanted to find them in my games besides of the random event chance. My reasons for choosing penguins as an extra resource may be a bit whimsical as well, but I believe that the gameplay role I chose for them has more solid reasons.

With regard to their original gameplay effect, I wouldn't say that +1 happiness is insignificant. It is true that now they appear more often, but they are still extremely rare (3 instances in a huge map, and in standard maps they don't even show up half of the time) so I don't think I'm making them too common. With regard to commerce, they are meant to give some small commerce resource variety to cold areas too (which is why they mimic furs). As I said in my previous post, I'm open to reducing their commerce value.

Spoiler :

Penguins are also related to one of ExtraModMod easter eggs. Although I believe it is something clearly visible, in all these years no one has mentioned finding it, or has asked "what is that weird thing?". This probably means that Penguins are as rare as I meant them to be, although it could just be that the easter egg is not as noticeable as I thought.

Got an error while playing on MountainCoast map script at turn 286.

Autosave on turn 284. The game freezes on turn 286.

Scary! I will take a look at this ASAP, thank you for providing a savegame.

You made my phone vibrate like crazy, like one second for each quote. I was also only using the same wording you used

I could make it so that at least that requirement is visible (as a tooltip). However, this could still be interpreted as a bug.

I agree, it would look like a bug. I'd rather keep that option as it is now.

-----------------------------

I have been thinking on a new change that could be made for 0.5.0-beta2. More Naval AI introduced a new tag for promotions that allows to upgrade units outside of cultural borders. All Doviello units could get a promotion with this tag and their current spell-based upgrade system could be removed (except the worker -> beastman one, which would stay). This would have the advantages of not having two upgrade systems in place, of being simpler for players, and that it would let the AI value how and when to upgrade units instead of having some hardcoded spells it does not understand.

Another point is that Savage is currently a bit lacking as a combat oriented trait, so I'm thinking of changing it. Savage would keep its immunity to fear and the possibility of getting the Cause Fear promotion along with Combat V, but its "heal after combat" effect would be reduced to 5% and the promotion would also allow units to be upgraded outside borders. This would allow Mahon and Braeden (the only non-Doviello savage leaders) to differenciate themselves of the other leaders of their civilizations by being able to upgrade their units outside of their own borders, while everything would stay the same for the Doviello. Since both of these leaders pale in comparison with their partners, I believe that it would make sense to grant them this strategy. What unit combats should get access to the improved Savage promotion is open to discussion.

I'm also considering a few changes to leader traits. These changes are motivated by the Savage change, the modifications suggested by [to_xp]Gekko and some nice Erebus in the Balance changes that can be applied to EMM's altered leader schema.


Braeden: Barbarian/Ingenuity/Savage --> Defensive/Organized/Savage

In retrospective, having a single leader not meant to be competitive was a bad idea. The proposed traits may seem contradictory, but I wanted to reflect the isolationist leader of a degenerated nation. It also seems fun to play


Duin: Charismatic/Magic Resistant/Slaver --> Imperialistic/Magic Resistant/Slaver

Charadon is already Charismatic, Weevil is too similar to the current Duin, and I wanted to free Charismatic/Savage for another leader. Imperialistic also seems to fit Duin's lore like a charm.


Decius: Organized/Raiders --> Organized/Raiders/Tolerant

I believe that this EitB change gives Decius that little something he was missing in order to be an interesting alternative. I also think that Decius traits have a nice synergy with Tolerant.


Keelyn: Creative/Summoner --> Creative/Ingenuity/Summoner

This EitB change should make Keelyn a bit better option, as I agree she is a bit lacking.


Hafgan: Charismatic/Raiders --> Charismatic/Savage

Savage's new ability of allowing upgrading units has a great synergy with a Clan leader meant to be purely militaristic.


Ostanes: Organized/Slaver --> ?

I ended up using [to_xp]Gekko's trait combination idea for Duin, which leaves this leader undecided again. He could stay as Organized/Slaver, become Organized/Imperialistic, or something else entirely. I'm open to suggestions


Uldanor: Creative/Imperialistic --> Barbarian/Charismatic/Creative

As I mentioned I like the idea of a barbarian Hippus leader, but I wanted to differenciate him from all others. Barbarian and Creative can work together in allowing a fast and relatively unopposed early expansion, and is a combo that no other leader has.


Let me know what you think about these changes. My intention is to include them in 0.5.0-beta2 (or beta3, if the bug that Sarmatian found is scary enough to require an early release).

 

[A Moon]

I'd say, at the end of the day, anyone who thinks unicorns belong in FFH2 should play the evil paths of the scenarios.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

some interesting ideas there Terkhen

Creative doesn't seem to fit a Barbarian leader at all, imho trait combos should fit both thematically and strategically.

I disagree with your idea for Savage for a couple reasons:

1) you're trying to clump together too many different effects on a single trait

2) it would greatly diminish the uniqueness of the Doviello, and they are not exactly one of the most unique civs already

while your idea would make a couple new leaders more interesting to play, I really think civilizations should keep their defining features

I'm also not sure why you say that current Savage is a bit lacking, it's an extremely powerful trait.

My suggestion is instead to keep Savage as is, and remove it from the Doviello, because they don't need it after the buffs they got in EitB.

that would allow more freedom to assign Savage to suitable leaders since you would no longer have the issue of "this proposed combo feels too similar to Doviello leader X"

 

[Qgqqqqq]

Creative doesn't seem to fit a Barbarian leader at all, imho trait combos should fit both thematically and strategically.

Disagree, quite besides that there's already a CRE/BAR leader in the mod (Averax, presuming that EitB change came through)

I was thinking on suggesting an option without game effect too. The text of the option could be: "We should let it go. I'm sure it will have a long and happy existence.", and after selecting that option a short message would appear, saying "After that day, no one saw the unicorn again."

I like it. Is there a way for it to be more sinister, though?

 

[Terkhen]

Creative doesn't seem to fit a Barbarian leader at all, imho trait combos should fit both thematically and strategically.

Why not? Not being predisposed to progress and science does not mean that a civilization cannot be predisposed to art and culture. I can easily picture a "barbaric" civilization defending their values, traditions and culture in a very assertive way. You even have historical examples, with pastoral nomadist cultures having rich traditions and keeping territories that were relatively big for their small populations. IMO this fits a barbarian version of the Hippus a lot.

1) you're trying to clump together too many different effects on a single trait

I'm also not sure why you say that current Savage is a bit lacking, it's an extremely powerful trait.

To my opinion they are very minor effects, which try to fit a common theme. Immunity to fear comes to play in very rare ocassions, mostly in the end game. Healing after combat is not very useful in decisive battles, which tend to implicate a lot of units. It may allow powerful units to kill a few more units on defense before losing, but not much else. Causing fear is awesome, but it is very difficult to promote an unit until it gets it. The trait is lacking a mechanic that gets more usage behind it, which is what I'm trying to add with "upgrade outside borders". If the number of effects is a problem, heal after combat could always be eliminated as I don't think it fits with Savage that much.

2) it would greatly diminish the uniqueness of the Doviello, and they are not exactly one of the most unique civs already

Don't forget that the Doviello get new goodies from ExtraModMod. No other civilization gets extra food on tundras, immunity to fear in all of their leaders and a pseudo-hero on game start that is now upgradeable. Allowing three minor leaders to use the "upgrade outside frontiers" mechanic would not substract much from that uniqueness, specially when upgrading workers and slaves to military units would still be restricted to the Doviello. The Beastman --> Battlemaster shortcut should also be kept, and it would be unique to Doviello.

My suggestion is instead to keep Savage as is, and remove it from the Doviello, because they don't need it after the buffs they got in EitB.

That would hurt their uniqueness too; after all it is a trait made mainly for the Doviello. Having said that, the main problem that I have against removing Savage from the Doviello is that it would force me to create a second, specific civilization trait just to grant them a different promotion that allows "upgrade outside borders" (as I said I believe that moving away from the spell upgrade system is a great idea). Duin would become Imperialistic/Magic Resistant/Savage in this case.

that would allow more freedom to assign Savage to suitable leaders since you would no longer have the issue of "this proposed combo feels too similar to Doviello leader X"

The main problem I have with assigning Savage to leaders is not that one, but that I find it underpowered. Braeden got it because it suited him, but also because he was meant to be bad. Mahon got it because Agrarian is quite good for the Calabim already, and vampires have easy ways to get enough XP to cause fear with Savage (specially when backed up with Agrarian), so it was great in his particular case. Hafgan never got it in the original draft because the cannon fodder strategies of the Clan would rarely benefit from it. I don't see Savage fitting with any other leaders besides Averax, but a Sheaim leader would get little benefit of it... you can't upgrade Pyre Zombies, and they can get Cause Fear already. Maybe it would fit one of the Balseraphs too, but I think they are fine as they are.

Disagree, quite besides that there's already a CRE/BAR leader in the mod (Averax, presuming that EitB change came through)

Since ExtraModMod has many additional leaders and traits I have always kept a separate trait scheme, but I adopt most changes that don't conflict with anything else. I thought that Averax was Aggressive/Barbarian/Expansive in Erebus in the Balance, although now that you mention it I do remember him being Aggressive/Barbarian/Creative at some point because I remember not adopting that change because Averax never struck me as a particularly educated individual. In EMM he is Aggressive/Barbarian/Imperialistic, with Imperialistic also meant to synergize with an early expansion.

I like it. Is there a way for it to be more sinister, though?

Hmm... the only thing I can think of is: "The next day, your informants report that a bloodstained unicorn horn has been sold in the black market to an unknown bidder." but it is maybe too sinister.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

1) "Culture" in civ4 makes me think more about "high culture" than culture itself, what with stuff like theatres providing a lot of culture and cities becoming "refined" when they have a lot of culture. I'd prefer to have an evil hippus leader with barbarian and other militaristic traits, and a neutral one with economic traits ( creative and something else I guess )

2) I think you are vastly underestimating the usefulness of "heal after combat" , it's essentially like having free March on all units which is extremely powerful ( and tons of fun for warmongering leaders ) .

3) imho "stealing" unique features from civilizations is just wrong, one of the main design goals of FFH2 is providing each civilization with a distinct gameplay. If we want to spice up a couple new leaders we can come up with a new mechanic, there's no need to borrow mechanics that are supposed to define a civ.

4) the unicorn event is fine as it is

 

[Qgqqqqq]

Since ExtraModMod has many additional leaders and traits I have always kept a separate trait scheme, but I adopt most changes that don't conflict with anything else. I thought that Averax was Aggressive/Barbarian/Expansive in Erebus in the Balance, although now that you mention it I do remember him being Aggressive/Barbarian/Creative at some point because I remember not adopting that change because Averax never struck me as a particularly educated individual. In EMM he is Aggressive/Barbarian/Imperialistic, with Imperialistic also meant to synergize with an early expansion.

:duh: I'd apparently forgotten that whilst he was Agg/Cre, recent versions changed that anyway. So never mind.

 

[A Moon]

I think we need the more choices in the unicorn event; specifically, to make sure it suffers before it dies.

 

[Agent Piltdown]

Hi, I've been using this mod and enjoying it the past couple of days. Thank you all for the work you continue to do on this, it's great to see modders still dedicated to trying to perfect such a big project.

I played 2 different games to about turn 150, one on Marathon and one on Epic, both with Raging Barbarians and Wild Lands on the Erebus Continents map. I'm not sure if my games have given reliable results with the wilderness feature because I manually placed every Civ on the map myself with the world editor. I thought adding a 'starting plot' on the World Editor for each civ changes the wilderness after the map is the generated, but from reading up on the mod it's my understanding it's not.

But generally the games have been balanced decently, only one Civ was killed early on from a nearby Barbarian city so I rolled back the save, gave them a single Warrior and they survived, so it was more luck in that case I feel. The early barbarian culture units showed up everywhere around turn 100 (Savages, etc). The only weird thing I noticed was the amount of sea monsters that turned up, those serpents and giant turtles. About 50 of them swimming around where as only about several wolves and lions ever showed up on the map. And I saw a gorilla appear in a jungle once but he vanished, lol.

No dungeons and animal dens were ever placed however, and barrows were very rare. I bypassed those issues by adding them on the map myself, though, and undead units eventually spawned and wandered around. I even saw 2 wraiths. I had no errors pop up either, aside from when I did something unusual with the world editor.

I'm going to start another game on Epic with the map I made, but I have a few questions before I get started. (Sorry if these are answered already, I've tried searching for an answer) Is the feature with unique Barbarian culture themed cities functional? I only every see orcish ones. Is there a way to manually change the type of city and units it produces with the world editor? And what turn will I start seeing some more unique barbarian units such as the human Savage Bandits? I was worried they weren't working because I've seen Orcish Axemen already.

 

[ArkhanTheBlack]

I think I haven't seen dungeons or animal dens either in the two beta games I played. Just lots of lizardmen lairs, goblin lairs and one burrow in a swamp.

 

[lfgr]

Welcome to the Forum, and thanks for the feedback.

I played 2 different games to about turn 150, one on Marathon and one on Epic, both with Raging Barbarians and Wild Lands on the Erebus Continents map. I'm not sure if my games have given reliable results with the wilderness feature because I manually placed every Civ on the map myself with the world editor. I thought adding a 'starting plot' on the World Editor for each civ changes the wilderness after the map is the generated, but from reading up on the mod it's my understanding it's not.

It won't work to edit the starting plots and then play on, but if you save the game as a scenario and start that scenario, wilderness will be recalculated (at turn 2, IIRC). Whether that makes a difference depends on how much you changed.
I will probably add a function to manually recalculate wilderness in the next version (see here).

The only weird thing I noticed was the amount of sea monsters that turned up, those serpents and giant turtles. About 50 of them swimming around where as only about several wolves and lions ever showed up on the map. And I saw a gorilla appear in a jungle once but he vanished, lol.

Mandatory question: Which version are you playing?
The Gorilla must have been killed somehow, in ExtraModMod animals don't vanish animore.

No dungeons and animal dens were ever placed however, and barrows were very rare. I bypassed those issues by adding them on the map myself, though, and undead units eventually spawned and wandered around.

There was a bug in MNAI which prevented dungeons from spawning, I'm not sure if it made it's way into EMM already. Did ruins spawn correctly?
The thing with animal dens is weird, I remember them working correctly not long ago. Please report whether this happens again (especially on another map).
EDIT: crossposted with Arkhan; well, It looks like I have to investigate that further.

The early barbarian culture units showed up everywhere around turn 100 (Savages, etc).

I even saw 2 wraiths. I had no errors pop up either, aside from when I did something unusual with the world editor.
Is the feature with unique Barbarian culture themed cities functional? I only every see orcish ones. Is there a way to manually change the type of city and units it produces with the world editor? And what turn will I start seeing some more unique barbarian units such as the human Savage Bandits? I was worried they weren't working because I've seen Orcish Axemen already.

The units spawning in the wild and the cities are two different things. The diverse city feature (which I refer to as "Barbarian Cultures") is not in EMM currently (I'm sorry, the documentation found on the project site is rather poor). I'm planning to include it when some other things are done, but I can't say when this will specifically happen.
The "unique" barbarians spawning randomly should are bound to specific terrain (human bandits to forests; nomads to deserts; "snow" guys to tundra and snow etc.), while orcs and co. spawn mostly on jungle, but can also spawn everywhere else.

 

[Sarmatian]

I do have some weird error with EMM and Blue Marble - it works fine if I install EitB but doesn't work in MNAI or EMM. I'm so accustomed to it by now that without it map looks really ugly to me. I reinstalled Civ and all the mods to make sure the error I posted earlier isn't related to a faulty install, so I went with a clean install. Everything worked fine prior to that. Anyone has any ideas?

Because of that reason, I've been playing EitB instead of EMM and I want to ask about two major issues, balance-wise:
1) Pyre Zombies
2) Loki
Those two issues are something EitB didn't change much, and understandably. EitB is balanced around their own multiplayer pitboss/pbem games. For humans, Pyre Zombies are annoying and dangerous, but manageable. It requires some effort, but it is doable. For single player, it's a catastrophe. AI can't deal with Pyre Zombies and simply throws stack after stack at them until it losses horribly. In my last EitB game as Malakim, I've watched Sheaim take over every single civ on a large Pangea map with Pyre Zombies. I've beaten them down with several Life II mages later, but every AI fell without exception, including Doviello (casting Wild Hunt in late game and getting cca. 300 wolves didn't help), Clan, Khazad, Sidar, Lanun, Amurites.

Loki, of course is even worse. In multi, he's a 100% useless. You basically build him and delete him for Shrine of the Champion. A player can deal with him, simply DOW Balseraph as soon as you see Loki in early game if you're not a cultural leader. BUT, Like with Pyre Zombies, AI can't deal with him and if Balseraph start close to non creative civ, it's a joke. AI doesn't understand, so it just keeps pumping out cities for Loki to take over.

Has this been addressed in EMM or are there plans to address it?

Concerning Unicorn event, I do understand that the point of the story is to showcase just how much of a dark, not-your-typical fantasy FFH really is, but I only got that AFTER reading the story. It's very hard to connect the two just from the in game event. I think that it would be best to remove the event in its entirety, because, even after thinking about it, I can't find the format in which it would convey the point of the story on wiki.

 

[A Moon]

Y'know, in the entire history of FFH2, I don't think anyone has ever suggested removing the unicorn event.

 

[Qgqqqqq]

I think you're underestimating the power of the nerf to zombies from 100% to 95% death collateral. Before it, you could basically just kill x zombies, and wipe out an entire stack, no matter its size. Now, you have to sacrifice those units and then have at least as many units as the enemy to kill them off. Given the effects of that to unit positioning, stack size, and the AI bonuses, that's a pretty hefty nerfstick.

I get that you're talking SP, not MP. But I think saying that EitB doesn't do much about zombies is a big exaggeration.