ExtraModMod

[Freesmog]

Thanks for making this mod. I'm enjoying my first game so far, however I've noticed a couple things that concern me:

Cassiel received an adventurer and declared war on me, and sent it without any upgrade with his troops, so I kindly picked off all but that one & he sent him back (still don't know if he's upgraded it).

Also, I didn't have Slavery civic, nor trait, and I'm still getting slaves from combat. Is this because I'm in the Undercouncil?

I have noticed move civs willing to become vassals without any combat between them. As soon as I summoned the Infernals they willing became my vassal.

 

[Terkhen]

Thanks for making this mod. I'm enjoying my first game so far, however I've noticed a couple things that concern me:

You are welcome. I'm glad that you are enjoying it

Cassiel received an adventurer and declared war on me, and sent it without any upgrade with his troops, so I kindly picked off all but that one & he sent him back (still don't know if he's upgraded it).

It seems like an AI issue. I'll try to reproduce it.

Also, I didn't have Slavery civic, nor trait, and I'm still getting slaves from combat. Is this because I'm in the Undercouncil?

Yes. Among other things, Undercouncil now gives a 25% enslavement chance, cumulative with Slavery.

I have noticed move civs willing to become vassals without any combat between them. As soon as I summoned the Infernals they willing became my vassal.

When an AI is surrounded by powerful and/or warmongering neighbours, it may feel menaced if its military power is inferior. In that case, getting a powerful ally may disuade those neighbours from declaring war. In the general case, this behaviour is correct.

Having said that, this reminds me of an issue I had in my last testgame while playing as the Infernals. I rushed to Infernal Pact with Hannah, and I got to play as the Infernals really soon. With Hyborem, Rosier and two Champions with Iron Weapons, it was quite easy to to conquer and raze enemy cities. But, in the power ratio, my military force appeared as inferior to my enemies' force. This led two different AIs to declare war on me as if I was weak, but in fact it was quite easy to destroy their invading stacks.

Taking into account your issue (recently summoned Infernal AI thinking that it is weak) and mine (other AIs assuming that recently summoned Infernals are weak) the underlying issue may be that the AI does not calculate correctly the value of very powerful units such as Hyborem or Iron Champions when everyone else is stuck (at best) with Bronze Warriors.

Thanks for the reports!

EDIT: The Grigori Adventurer issue is caused by the ExtraModMod changes, and not by the AI changes. I have opened a issue report in the tracker, it will be fixed for the next version.

 

[Terkhen]

I found the cause of the issue reported by Freesmog, and while testing my fix I noticed that because of a regression in the Adventurer Counter code, Adventurers required twice of the normal time to appear. Besides both of these fixes, I'm also going to fix an issue with scenarios. Because of these issues, I'll be releasing a bugfix version (0.2.1) soon. Did anyone find any other issue?

 

[Terkhen]

The version 0.2.1 of ExtraModMod has been released. It is a bugfixing release meant to fix a few issues including two Grigori related problems. You can see a detailed changelog below.

Spoiler :

ExtraModMod v0.2.1

More Naval AI version: r1409 (2.42 plus additional fixes and changes by Tholal and red-key)

Fixes

• Ice Mana Nodes were not using the religion specific graphics.
• Extort now uses the standard way of scaling with gamespeed.
• Grigori Adventurers were never upgraded by the AI.
• The Grigori Adventurers took twice the intended time to be generated.
• Adventurer production is now affected by Stasis.
• Incorrect unit references to Great Generals in scenarios.
• Magic missiles were incorrectly described as an exploding unit.

More Naval AI changes

• Units that cannot capture cities no longer can enter in enemy forts.
• Revolutions no longer cancels Autoplay.
• Fort culture will now dissapear immediately after its owner is defeated.
• AI more likely to build explorer units.
• AI is more likely to create Puppet States instead of razing.
• AI will travel less when placing its first city.
• AI now has tighter restrictions when deciding to feast.
• With the Wildlands option active, animals are generated for the complete game.
• AI less likely to raze its own cities when they are recaptured.
• When lead by an AI, the Lanun are no longer forced to create a maritime capital.
• AI patrol groups are more likely to merge with nearby Hero units.
• Puppet states now start with more units.
• The Deepening now only affects 25% of the tiles in the world and also has the length of the terrain change modified properly by gamespeed.

Terrain Features

• Improved volcano graphics.

In the first post you can find the links for downloading, the wiki and other useful information.

 

[Kiech]

Nice!

 

[Freesmog]

I can't seem to choose the kuriotates as the AI. I wanted to include them in my current game. Also, the Sheaim seem more powerful than before. I can't wait to include them as an AI next game

 

[Freesmog]

And the AI are not creating religious or civspecific heroes, except Lucian. I can create them however.

 

[Freesmog]

What's up with Forts? Seems the AI would rather build them on valuable plots & defend them with more troops than cities?!!

 

[Red Key]

What's up with Forts? Seems the AI would rather build them on valuable plots & defend them with more troops than cities?!!

Is this with or without Advanced Tactics? or both? I believe Tholal put in some code that should limit defenders in forts to 2 at most. Also what sort of plots are they putting forts on?

edit: I don't believe any of my recent changes would affect how many units defend a fort, but I did remove some of my code that determined what to build on bonuses/resources. I reverted the code back to what it was before my code.

 

[Terkhen]

I can't seem to choose the kuriotates as the AI. I wanted to include them in my current game. Also, the Sheaim seem more powerful than before. I can't wait to include them as an AI next game

Sadly, the Kuriotates missing from AI selection is intended. Right now, In multiplayer, having any player as the Kuriotates (both in More Naval AI and in ExtraModMod because it is based on it) will cause a lot of OOS errors. Because of that, ExtraModMod disables the Kuriotates as an AI choice. That way, if you want to play multiplayer your game won't be ruined if some AI selects the Kuriotates as their random choice. If you don't plan to use multiplayer, you can undo this hack by editing the Assets\XML\Civilization\CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml file and modifying the <bAIPlayable>0</bAIPlayable> found below the <Type>CIVILIZATION_KURIOTATES</Type> tag to <bAIPlayable>1</bAIPlayable>.

I plan to help with fixing this issue in MNAI soon, but I wasn't able to get OOS error logs in the computers I have. I'll try again when my setup allows me to run two Civilization instances with different configurations at the same time again.

And the AI are not creating religious or civspecific heroes, except Lucian. I can create them however.

I did not notice this. I'll check for this in my next playtest. I have created an issue in the tracker for this problem.

What's up with Forts? Seems the AI would rather build them on valuable plots & defend them with more troops than cities?!!

I noticed this in my last game too. I conquered a Fort in the Luchuirp frontier, used it to heal my units and then continued moving my stack to their capital. The Luchuirp moved many warriors to the fort, even when it was behind enemy lines and it meant taking away troops from their capital's defense.

Is this with or without Advanced Tactics? or both? I believe Tholal put in some code that should limit defenders in forts to 2 at most. Also what sort of plots are they putting forts on?

In my case, it was with Advanced Tactics. ExtraModMod enables Advanced Tactics by default (although you can disable it) so Freesmog's game was probably with Advanced Tactics too.

EDIT: I'm attaching a screenshot of the situation I described.

 

[Red Key]

I noticed this in my last game too. I conquered a Fort in the Luchuirp frontier, used it to heal my units and then continued moving my stack to their capital. The Luchuirp moved many warriors to the fort, even when it was behind enemy lines and it meant taking away troops from their capital's defense.

Sounds like the AI is a bit to anxious to retake undefended forts (I'm guessing you took all your units out of the fort, and then they moved to capture it)? Is there a problem with how many units they leave to defend a fort also? Exactly how many units is the AI leaving in forts for defense? Sorry for all the questions, just trying to diagnose the problem. Anything else I should know about AI behavior with forts?

 

[Terkhen]

Sounds like the AI is a bit to anxious to retake undefended forts (I'm guessing you took all your units out of the fort, and then they moved to capture it)? Is there a problem with how many units they leave to defend a fort also? Exactly how many units is the AI leaving in forts for defense? Sorry for all the questions, just trying to diagnose the problem. Anything else I should know about AI behavior with forts?

I'm attaching two savegames. In the first one I just abandoned the fort after using it to heal my units. I did not keep any defenders. In the second one, four turns later, I'm already at the enemy capital and, with world builder, you can see two warriors moving to retake the fort. In the picture I attached, you can see those two warriors guarding the fort in a later turn. To load them you will need ExtraModMod v0.2.1.

Don't worry about the questions, I'm glad to be of help. I did not notice any other issues with forts.

 

[Kiech]

I have seen this peculiar action from the AI as well when using advanced tactics. The AI defends them like cities.

 

[Freesmog]

Is this with or without Advanced Tactics? or both? I believe Tholal put in some code that should limit defenders in forts to 2 at most. Also what sort of plots are they putting forts on?

edit: I don't believe any of my recent changes would affect how many units defend a fort, but I did remove some of my code that determined what to build on bonuses/resources. I reverted the code back to what it was before my code.

It's with Advanced Tactics as Terkhen guessed. Does your fort mod also apply when Advanced Tactics are turned off? I thought I've seen more than 2 defenders in forts, but I need to test this out, as I haven't been paying attention to that for awhile. One reason I don't turn auto worker AI on is they'll build forts in places I could develop for my city to work, and seems the other civ AI do the same thing. I haven't watched closely what the patterns of AI fort placement are, however I have seen them put forts on resources. I don't know if your code makes this better or not. My previous game the Grigori had left a city with only 1 injured defender, while there were a couple units hanging out in a nearby fort. It seems the AI is thrilled to build forts all over the place instead of cities (in some cases).

 

[Freesmog]

Sadly, the Kuriotates missing from AI selection is intended. Right now, In multiplayer, having any player as the Kuriotates (both in More Naval AI and in ExtraModMod because it is based on it) will cause a lot of OOS errors. Because of that, ExtraModMod disables the Kuriotates as an AI choice. That way, if you want to play multiplayer your game won't be ruined if some AI selects the Kuriotates as their random choice. If you don't plan to use multiplayer, you can undo this hack by editing the Assets\XML\Civilization\CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml file and modifying the <bAIPlayable>0</bAIPlayable> found below the <Type>CIVILIZATION_KURIOTATES</Type> tag to <bAIPlayable>1</bAIPlayable>

Thanks for the fix.

 

[Red Key]

It's with Advanced Tactics as Terkhen guessed. Does your fort mod also apply when Advanced Tactics are turned off? I thought I've seen more than 2 defenders in forts, but I need to test this out, as I haven't been paying attention to that for awhile. One reason I don't turn auto worker AI on is they'll build forts in places I could develop for my city to work, and seems the other civ AI do the same thing. I haven't watched closely what the patterns of AI fort placement are, however I have seen them put forts on resources. I don't know if your code makes this better or not. My previous game the Grigori had left a city with only 1 injured defender, while there were a couple units hanging out in a nearby fort. It seems the AI is thrilled to build forts all over the place instead of cities (in some cases).

My fort mod should only apply when Advanced Tactics is on, but only because I added in extra stuff when it was merged into More Naval AI. I had to be careful to make so some sections of code are skipped when AT is off, and it is always possible I missed a section of code. There are a few exceptions to this because my choke point code runs even without AT.

I think the AI's placement of forts that you are describing is part of FFH2. Kael or someone purposefully made so the AI would spread forts around and it seems to be random. My code focuses fort building on resources that are outside city borders and on choke/canal points. However, often the AI will build a fort on a resource outside borders, and soon after that the AI will build a city near the resource so sometimes you still see forts within a city's range.

 

[Calavente]

that the AI is willing to take forts is not strange, Forts give some +10-+30% defense to city within 2-3 tiles ... so using 1-2 warriors to re-take the fort is not stupid.

what seems to be stupid is that they send those 2 warriors when they would have more effect than a global +20-30% on the defense of the city
(leaving 1-2 warriors in city and taking 2 to the fort)

Using maths only:

having 11 warriors in city, sending 2 to the fort, leaving 9 in city is close to be worth it.
(getting +30 total +100% in city (+30, +25%fortification, +25%city def, +20%cultur) instead of +70%: so 9 warriors defending at 6str (total 54str) instead of 11 at 5str : (total 55str).. and it is worth it if those 2 warriors were not at 25% fortification bonus
(and less worth it if some warriors had some further promotions or if there is a palissade ... and more worth it if those are not warriors but axes or hunters which have no innate city def bonus).

it's also close to be worth it to send 1 warrior out of 6 : 5 defending in city at 6str (ttl 30) versus 6 defending at roughly 5str : (ttl 30)

then 2 other points to take into account :
due to the way the damage are taken, +10% only might change 99%odds into 80% odds... or 80% odds into 65% odds... (not even speaking about +30%...) so having 5 units defending at 6str is more dangerous to your stack (meaning you'll get them but you'll lose more units to take the city, but only if you do it in 1 turn) than 6 units defending at 5str.
So I think the breakdown is closer to leaving 4 units in city an 1 unti going to get this fort up.

OTOH if your units could take 99%odds on those warriors whatever the +30% or not, having 2 more warriors might prolonge the city taking on more turn but I'm not sure giving your city +30% defense is such a un-wise move.

 

[Freesmog]

My fort mod should only apply when Advanced Tactics is on, but only because I added in extra stuff when it was merged into More Naval AI. I had to be careful to make so some sections of code are skipped when AT is off, and it is always possible I missed a section of code. There are a few exceptions to this because my choke point code runs even without AT.

I think the AI's placement of forts that you are describing is part of FFH2. Kael or someone purposefully made so the AI would spread forts around and it seems to be random. My code focuses fort building on resources that are outside city borders and on choke/canal points. However, often the AI will build a fort on a resource outside borders, and soon after that the AI will build a city near the resource so sometimes you still see forts within a city's range.

It makes sense to add some kind of bombardment feature to forts, instead of merely defensive. Perhaps a catapult effect and food +1 for storage to the nearest city.

 

[Terkhen]

It makes sense to add some kind of bombardment feature to forts, instead of merely defensive. Perhaps a catapult effect and food +1 for storage to the nearest city.

Forts can be bombarded already.

 

[Folket]

They ask for forts to be able to hurt opposing units.