Extreme2

[tchristensen]

NEW VERSION​

Extreme2 V2.0 with dozens of new units, technologies, buildings, tweaks, enhancements.
​

Download Site #1: http://www.atomicgamer.com/file.php?id=91585​

I could not get all the changes I wanted in at the last second, but there is so much new content here that we can play for months and still not experience it all. For some of the changes, look over the last dozen daily updates.

 

[dataskywalker]

I'll try it out asap. Good job on a new version!

I actually find it more fun in most regards to just download a mod and explore the civlopedia instead of actually playing

 

[tchristensen]

Many people do. Its just fun to read and watch the animations -- though on any particular day I may be more wordy than another, so some civlopedia entries are much longer than others. Although overall my entries are very short to other mods because I put my description straight into the XML.

 

[Red Boxer]

From time to time I get an error that there is no disk in drive E. It doesn't cause any problems that I see but it is kind of odd.

 

[tchristensen]

From time to time I get an error that there is no disk in drive E. It doesn't cause any problems that I see but it is kind of odd.

That is odd, indeed! I never have seen that error. Is E an assigned drive letter?

 

[Red Boxer]

No, it doesn't.

I also just got a WfoC error, which I attached a save for.

 

[tchristensen]

No, it doesn't.

I also just got a WfoC error, which I attached a save for.

I will try this tonight when I get home from work.

 

[tchristensen]

No, it doesn't.

I also just got a WfoC error, which I attached a save for.

I get the same error as you -- the only thing I notice apparently different is the mapscript looks unlike I have seen before.

If you would like to test out a standard Continents mapscript and see if that happens again?

 

[Red Boxer]

What do you mean it looks different? I noticed that the Amra script you have has an oddly sized Large size map, it was squarish.

I started another game and it seems to be running fine.

 

[tchristensen]

I went into World Builder and noticed that the map is 90 degrees from normal maps -- that is it is much taller than it is wide. Maybe that has something to do with it?

I have no knowledge in mapscripting and would love to know more.

While talking of mapscripts, does anyone know how to move starting locations around -- too many of my games my guys are always in the arctic. I would love to get them down more into the temperate regions.

 

[Edward The Big]

Played a game with the new Extreme2 last night...Good job, but a few thoughts...

1. Making the availablility of settlers tech dependent is a bad idea...Unless the AI knows to speed towards that tech as well..Otherwise, it wildly unbalances the game towards the human player...I had 6 cities up by the time the AI even had that tech.

2. You have added too many techs at the beginning of the game, many of which don't add anything (Do we need 3 Arid living techs?)...The AI slowly and methodically plows through those techs, while the Human player has founded all of the early religions, and have 6-8 cities up.

3. By turn 300, even after I had traded with the AI for a great deal of the early techs, I still had around 7 early techs left to discover, and I was researching Engineering by that point...

 

[tchristensen]

Played a game with the new Extreme2 last night...Good job, but a few thoughts...

1. Making the availablility of settlers tech dependent is a bad idea...Unless the AI knows to speed towards that tech as well..Otherwise, it wildly unbalances the game towards the human player...I had 6 cities up by the time the AI even had that tech.

2. You have added too many techs at the beginning of the game, many of which don't add anything (Do we need 3 Arid living techs?)...The AI slowly and methodically plows through those techs, while the Human player has founded all of the early religions, and have 6-8 cities up.

3. By turn 300, even after I had traded with the AI for a great deal of the early techs, I still had around 7 techs left to discover, and I was researching Engineering by that point...

I am unsure what sort of game you are playing? Are you on Noble/Epic?

In all the games we have tested, the AI did a fairly decent job at keeping up with our cities. I am unsure why in your game they have not? Settlers are highly weighted as well as the techs leading up to it. I am always more than happy to look into this matter, however.

All techs are needed in the game, and even those such as Arid Living are required if you have a lot of desert around you. If you live in a temperate forest, then I can see perhaps having all three Arid Techs is rather silly.

I am assuming you are playing at a different game than Noble/Epic because much of what you are saying just does not compare to any of the games we have played.

Game difficulties less or greater than Noble/Epic are not supported and have not been playtested.

If you can, upload your save game.

I also suggest turn off tech bartering, even tech trading for a bit more difficulty.

 

[HannibalBarka]

Played a game as Dido of Carthage, monarch, large continents, epic, raging barbarian, agressive AI, no tech brokering. I am in turn 521 well in the renaissance era and here some remarks:
1. AI settling early on went correctly,they did not struggle to buid settlers and claim "their" land.
2. caravel come still too early I think
3. there is a big problem with wonders: they are tooooooooo expensive compared to any other thing and more importantly many of them need stone!!! in the turn 521, GLigh, Great Lib, Oracle are stil not built. HEnge was built in 899 AD!!!
4. Farms are too overpowered compared to other improvements
5. early on there are too many useless sea units
6. machine gun come earlier than rifelman ?!
7. map scripts other than contients and earth2 do not generate swamps and bogs (that is why I played continents)

 

[tchristensen]

Played a game as Dido of Carthage, monarch, large continents, epic, raging barbarian, agressive AI, no tech brokering. I am in turn 521 well in the renaissance era and here some remarks:
1. AI settling early on went correctly,they did not struggle to buid settlers and claim "their" land.
2. caravel come still too early I think
3. there is a big problem with wonders: they are tooooooooo expensive compared to any other thing and more importantly many of them need stone!!! in the turn 521, GLigh, Great Lib, Oracle are stil not built. HEnge was built in 899 AD!!!
4. Farms are too overpowered compared to other improvements
5. early on there are too many useless sea units
6. machine gun come earlier than rifelman ?!
7. map scripts other than contients and earth2 do not generate swamps and bogs (that is why I played continents)

Initial thoughts (I am at work and do not have access to the game).

First, I only support Noble and Epic modes of playing and have not tinkered with anything above or below those settings -- so I cannot begin to tell you how things would behave on them.

Caravels -- Civilizations were sailing deep oceans thousands of years before Europeans built them, such as the Polynesians and to some lesser extent China.
Oceans are a big impediment in the game, but cargo sizes of Caravels truly restrict any large scale invasions.

Wonders are meant to be wondrous, in my opinion. The need for stone is crucial, or you are just not going to build wondrous things that need it. You need stone to build the pyramids, stonehenge, and the Great Wall. It is a bad idea to try and compare the mod to any sort of similar time frames (i.e. tying specific dates in times to specific inventions, wonders, or battles).

Compared to land units, sea units are meager. There are a ton of worthless land units, one could argue but having different units are fun. Thus, I like having a bunch of sea units -- are they worthless? Probably....but I love the models.

Machine guns only come before rifles if you research it that way. Rifles need rifling, and I believe MGs need a specific tech (?) and rifling (** I am at work so can't verify). Will look into modify that, if I am wrong on this.

Are you saying you want bogs? I have no control over the mapcripts and have no intention of playing with them. I will look for more to add and maybe those will play nicer -- for the next upgrade.

Thanks for the great comments. We are still play testing it, but at our pace it just is too hard to catch so many things.

Keep up the good work, and I will make the notes to see when we can add them.

Your last comments came in just too late for me to make all of the changes I wanted.

Troy

 

[tchristensen]

Will look into farms, costs of wonders, and the machine guns!

Woohoo!!

 

[PacMang]

I don't quite understand... Atheism gives military bonuses and 50% experience gain from combat, whereas Free Religion is the civic which receives a 10% Research bonus....

I'm an atheist and I don't get any extra exp when I get in combat... I do however have an 'A' in my PHYS 3316 Astrobiology class...

 

[tchristensen]

I don't quite understand... Atheism gives military bonuses and 50% experience gain from combat, whereas Free Religion is the civic which receives a 10% Research bonus....

I'm an atheist and I don't get any extra exp when I get in combat... I do however have an 'A' in my PHYS 3316 Astrobiology class...

It's a game, man. Nothing more. I guess I could come up with some hair-brained idea as to why, but then your explanations would be just as valid. Why does any religion give a bonus over another? Or, why one culture is more aggressive than another is simply a game mechanic that offers different styles of play.

Cheers!

 

[tchristensen]

Regarding the Machine Gun -- After looking at them, they will need to be adjusted. They require only Rifling where as the Rifleman require Rifling as well as Matchlock. The MG is 18/1 while Rifles are 14/1 -- each with different bonuses. The MG is 125 hammers, while Rifles are 110.

All in all, I will probably reduce the MG to maybe 16/1, require another tech (ideas?), and bring the costs up 50%.

 

[HannibalBarka]

Initial thoughts (I am at work and do not have access to the game).
First, I only support Noble and Epic modes of playing and have not tinkered with anything above or below those settings -- so I cannot begin to tell you how things would behave on them.

I know that. I also take Epic. But Noble is just unchallenging.

Caravels -- Civilizations were sailing deep oceans thousands of years before Europeans built them, such as the Polynesians and to some lesser extent China.
Oceans are a big impediment in the game, but cargo sizes of Caravels truly restrict any large scale invasions.

Hummm, true ocean traveling really began in the 15th century though, circumvigating the globe was done later. With Caravel, you get the ability to that much earlier than in Human history. But than again it 's not that importnat neither

Wonders are meant to be wondrous, in my opinion. The need for stone is crucial, or you are just not going to build wondrous things that need it. You need stone to build the pyramids, stonehenge, and the Great Wall. It is a bad idea to try and compare the mod to any sort of similar time frames (i.e. tying specific dates in times to specific inventions, wonders, or battles).

It more the fact that tons of wonders need Stone to be built. Oracle need stone to be built, and so does the Lighthouse and other wonders. Historically stone was mandatory to build wonders I agree. It was however more common than in a civ game . I think that the game should be balanced in a way that 90% of wonders end being built before becoming obsolete, else why bother create them.
Oh and there are also many national wonders that require stone

Compared to land units, sea units are meager. There are a ton of worthless land units, one could argue but having different units are fun. Thus, I like having a bunch of sea units -- are they worthless? Probably....but I love the models.

hummm, there very fewer land unit that are worthless IMHO: soem are cheaper than others while still worth something because though generally weatker they have special abilities (like spear compared to axe, or archer compared to armored archer). Canoe and other early sea units become useless the moment you have galleys

Machine guns only come before rifles if you research it that way. Rifles need rifling, and I believe MGs need a specific tech (?) and rifling (** I am at work so can't verify). Will look into modify that, if I am wrong on this.

Are you saying you want bogs? I have no control over the mapcripts and have no intention of playing with them. I will look for more to add and maybe those will play nicer -- for the next upgrade.

I see that you looked to MG problem.
As for map, I don't like bogs , it is just that the mapscript does not generate a terrain that exists in the mod, that's all

Thanks for the great comments. We are still play testing it, but at our pace it just is too hard to catch so many things.

Keep up the good work, and I will make the notes to see when we can add them.

Your last comments came in just too late for me to make all of the changes I wanted.
Troy

thanks also for your nice comment, and the great Mod.
While I am at it, diplo units (I'm thninking about envoy and assasin) should be hidden, I mean they should be able to go to AI land without open border agreement just like spies I think.
And there is something I do not understand: Assasin or Duke can see stealth units (speis I presume) as sais in the pedia, but what is their "range" of vision? I used a duke and made it travel around my land to catch spies, he couldn't find any, but I did not know if that was because none was in my land or because I wasn't close enough to one.
cheers

 

[tchristensen]

Thanks for the feedback. I am putting the finishing touches on Age of Discovery Version 1.5 and then will be turning back to the fine tuning of this mod. At the same time, I am also working on trying to refit ExtremeMod with some new techs, units, and tweaks. Very busy times!

I agree with you on most things, and will fix many of the "issues" on the next patch.

I think the worse thing we can do is become too Eurocentric (or American centric for that matter) and think that all time tables should be scaled to what happened in Europe. Asian and Pacific cultures had so many advances over traditional cultures. I also opinion the what if scenarios -- such as what if Alexander the Great did not die so young? The Chinese were more of an expansionist? What if Rome was not sacked and fell to barbarians?

All of these ideas could have changed history so radical -- Would history show that Columbus discovered the new world so late as 1492 if Rome never fell and the empire engulfed all of Europe? Stonehenge was built in the Americas in by a culture called Cahokia much later than the druids in Europe.

So many radical ideas, and that is what I am trying to create in Extreme2.