Facing a Japanese SuperArmy

[FrontierProject]

Difficulty: Prince
Map: Large 10 players Continents
Contenders: Russians (me), Japanese, Romans, Egyptians, Chinese, French -Deceased: British, Germans, Aztecs, forgot the last one .

Stats Gold:1653 (-7) Happiness:-1
Sitrep: it's turn 253, mid 1600's, I have a 4 native cities in the center of my continent, 4 puppet cities from the French to the Northeast. France is no longer a mentionable contender, as they'r cowering in their final city. To the east is a 10 square wilderness before opening up to 3 city states. 2 culture and a military, with which I have 150+ relations, then the continent dogslegs north to the vast Japanese empire comprising of the Japan and German and Aztec puppets, 25+ cities. Japan has an outrageous military, I have just researched Gunpowder, have mostly swordsman with a smattering of longswordsman and knights, they have a core of infantry, with a lot of cannons, and outnumber 3-5 to 1. I have good relations with all civs except the Egyptians, who are on the other continent with a single Chinese city and Rome my biggest ally.
I'm in good standing with Japan, but they have just gone to war with all CS and have steamrolled my 3 CS with nothing but a curt apology, I wanted those 3 CS to maintain my +56 culture per turn and as a buffer between me and Japan. Now I'm stuck on this continent virtually alone with the worlds biggest superpower, an undermanned and outdated army, and my economy is hurtling toward bankruptcy. of the 4 mentionable world powers I have the weakest military. and I wasn't counting toward a culture victory so although I have a decent start my selection could be better, I have a start (only 2 have more than the 1st one unlocked) in Honor, Commerce , Rationalism, Patronage, and Liberty. I'm pitifully behind in the wonder race, with none that help towards culture, although I'm almost done with the Sistine Chapel and have a chance at completing the Louvre.

Any advice, should I gear toward spending all my gold on military upgrades and try to build an army, or turn to what I can salvage of a culture victory?

 

[geolawyerman]

Dude, you're not winning cv with 56 culture/turn, if I got that right. However, if that's just what you get from city-states, then it's not bad. Finish the Louvre, if possible and get Sistine Chapel. You are way behind in tech, so you are more or less screwed if he DoWs you. Did you build universities? If you can, get cannons and put them in every city while beelining military techs, but I strongly recommend staying at peace with the Japs. I would need a screenshot for a better description of your situation.

 

[FrontierProject]

I would need a screenshot for a better description of your situation.

I'll upload a few later today.

 

[chmilz]

At Prince difficulty, turtle and do whatever it takes to get your beakers up. Beeline artillery, then oil and bombers.

 

[Maxym]

Plz post some screens and a save, could be salvageable but sounds tough

 

[BenjaminCIV]

Upload a save file, and let one of us play through it. If it's on Prince I'm fairly confident you could salvage something out of it. Turn 253 is a bit late though, how fast are your policies coming in. Less than 10 turns or so? I almost never play culture but I think that's the consensus on what you need to hit for a culture game.

 

[FrontierProject]

Upload a save file, and let one of us play through it. If it's on Prince I'm fairly confident you could salvage something out of it. Turn 253 is a bit late though, how fast are your policies coming in. Less than 10 turns or so? I almost never play culture but I think that's the consensus on what you need to hit for a culture game.

whoa, no I'm getting em every 21 turns or so
I guess I'm pretty much toast huh?

 

[FrontierProject]

wow, I didn't expect so much interest, I'll upload a save tomorrow, till then, some screenies:

The Motherland:


The "French Territories" (were supposed to fund a major military mobilization):


The "Not Yet Enemy" (or part of it):


The Valorous Defense: (reminiscent of the US withdrawal from the Philippines, they'r withdrawing from Lhasa)


Random Stats:



My Wonders:

 

[BenjaminCIV]

Maybe, on Immortal + you need to win culture victories in under 300 turns, so that works out to about 10 turns a policy. 21 is pretty long. Given you start it would have been better to have opened tradition (even though liberty is more powerful in vanilla) and you definitely should have gone piety for the reduced policy cost. It sounds like you're about 1 era behind in tech. That's survivable. If Japan doesn't wipe you out they'll win a space victory before you finish your culture game. It depends, but you probably want to focus everything on science. Fill all your scientist specialist slots. Build all your science buildings especially National College in Capital if you haven't already. Try to get to dynamite ASAP, build Oxford if you can to use for dynamite. Try to build about 6 cannons, upgrade when you get artillery. Artillery can fire up to 3 tiles away they should never take damage, move cavalry forward, blast everything with artillery, pull back cavalry, repeat. Then move on to cities. Conquer your continent and tech towards stealth bombers, kill everything, or at least Japan. Make sure to liberate your city state allies, they'll be happy and you can get set up for winning a diplomatic victory.

Ok. This was before the screenshots. I'll take a look and see If I can give more advice.

 

[BenjaminCIV]

Well for starters that's rifleman on Japan's part not infantry so you're in slightly better shape. You're not going to win this one culturally though without some major changes. (maybe not at all). For starters France is going no nowhere so move all you units to that narrow isthmus where your deceased city state allies are, not sure why your economy stinks would need to see the save, (Maybe too many buildings? I had this problem I lot when I started playing, don't try to build all the buildings it never works.) For now though upgrade all your units you have the cash. This map is kind enough that you can bunch all your units in one place if worst comes to worst. I don't remember how policies are ordered in vanilla, but your next policy needs to be a happiness one.

 

[BenjaminCIV]

Do almost none of France's former cities have trade routes? your workers are sitting around might want to look at that. Don't build Angkor Wat, you have Kreposts. Nice snag on Hogia, and Norte Dame.

 

[sufficiency]

Looks like Japan has rifles already and it will take you 30+ turns to get them. He is probably 50+ turns ahead of you in tech.

It's turn 261 (is this standard speed?) and you have like 40 pop in total. That's not a good sign at all.

 

[Sidor1982]

Looks like Japan has rifles already and it will take you 30+ turns to get them. He is probably 50+ turns ahead of you in tech.

It's turn 261 (is this standard speed?) and you have like 40 pop in total. That's not a good sign at all.

It's turn 261 and he's generating 90 science per turn without even having National College or a university in the capitol...
I don't think there is an option for a victory in such situation as these crucial buildings were supposed to be there for more than 100 turns already.

 

[FrontierProject]

And here I thought I was a pretty good Civ player

The reason I don't have Uni's is twofold, 1. I had no idea they were that important. 2. Every time I was thinking of making them I opted for buildings that improved my cash flow, I can't figure out how those AI players can field armies like that, 76 unit maintenance expense is killling me.

Yes it is a normal length game.

Savefiles coming at 1PM CT.

 

[Sidor1982]

And here I thought I was a pretty good Civ player

The reason I don't have Uni's is twofold, 1. I had no idea they were that important. 2. Every time I was thinking of making them I opted for buildings that improved my cash flow, I can't figure out how those AI players can field armies like that, 76 unit maintenance expense is killling me.

Yes it is a normal length game.

Savefiles coming at 1PM CT.

I didn't mean to be rude or anything like that

You simply went into early army to conquer the closest opponent, but unfortunately You did it at the cost of science, which is the most important factor in the game. As a result You defeated Napoleon but every other AI is technically way ahead and probably too far to catch up (although it's only prince so maybe there is a chance).

If You did it the other way - had only enough of an army to defend and concentrated on 3-4 city and science You'll be having bombers or even better units by now.

I just did a simple emperor test run to check where can I be at turn 260 and I was at over 1300 beakers per turn. And it was a casual 5 cities game, with no focus on science or diplo timing, where You could be winning at this point. I'm not writing that to brag about it, just so You have something to compare as where can You get with a different strategy.

 

[Buccaneer]

Sidon is correct. At turn 250 or so, if the game has not been won yet and esp at the low level, being at 1000+ bpt and/or 400+ cpt should be typical, or have 1 capital left to take with superior units (again, science is the key) if you went that way. It's about establish a good foundation and then letting multipliers propel you.

 

[Maxym]

I still think this is doable, maybe not science or Dom, but diplo coul still work if there will be enough CS left. The choke from japan isn't great but it's not wide open plains either. Get unis up, and NC then beeline arty and keep japan busy or play nice and tech for UN.

 

[Unresolved]

Diplomacy might not even be possible since his economy is in shambles. It's possible the AI will win via SV before he reaches Globalization. I also don't know how going from a standard -> large map affects AI win speeds, but I'd guess that there are 120 turns left before the AI wins on Prince.

 

[FrontierProject]

Complications at work, save file will be up later tonite.

note: my favorite part of the game is the modern and atomic era, so if a game were won at the current phase I'd be looking for ways to prolong it. There was something else I wanted to mention but I forgot what it was,so yeah.

 

[FrontierProject]

Save files: http://www.mediafire.com/?sr4e6nmlmis610h