Fall From Heaven II Erebus pbem

[Luthor_Saxburg]

I would say to wait a bit more to see if we have other joiners,

It's not because I'm very busy until the end of October... no no no, nothing like that!

 

[Eclipse4449]

I think we should try finding more players and discuss what modmod if any to use. In fact I opened a thread in the FFH subforum to do just that:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13515073

I'm not sure we are on the same page here, you have typed FFH and I have posted FFH2 and I haven't found any issues other than irrelevant astronomer messages, nothing I think would discolor a pbem game, then again I haven't advanced to far in my game.
Also I know nothing about modmods, my only concern is the my FFH2 remains intact so my other games functions.

If a Modmod is a separate folder entirely I'd have no problem using it but I'm quite found of the "End of Winter" challenge and the Erebus map

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I'm not sure we are on the same page here, you have typed FFH and I have posted FFH2 and I haven't found any issues other than irrelevant astronomer messages, nothing I think would discolor a pbem game, then again I haven't advanced to far in my game.
Also I know nothing about modmods, my only concern is the my FFH2 remains intact so my other games functions.

If a Modmod is a separate folder entirely I'd have no problem using it but I'm quite found of the "End of Winter" challenge and the Erebus map

We are on the same page, when I say FFH I actually mean FFH2 just like I mean BtS when I say Civilization4. I'm just too lazy to type that extra number.

There is a small number of bugs, the most problematic IIRC has something to do with Pyre Zombies, so the very least we should do is use that unofficial patch which only fixes bugs but doesn't actually add anything as far as I know.

Agree with you on the last point.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

The Erebus map is a maze of peaks that completely change the gameplay, and not for the better. I would not recommend it.

 

[Eclipse4449]

The Erebus map is a maze of peaks that completely change the gameplay, and not for the better. I would not recommend it.

Ok that makes sence, it sounds very limiting. I guess I'll need to rename this lol
Thanks

 

[akatosh]

Erebus is a bad map for multiplayer, but even Erebus Continent and World of Erebus (which create Pangaeas) can lead to very imbalanced starts. Definitely make sure heroes are on.

Turning off the Armageddon counter hurts some civs like Sheaim, and Raging Barbarians is a gift to Sidar and any leader with the Barbarian trait.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

For the record, I like the Erebus mapscript.

 

[BobCW]

I have personally organized and successfully run over a half-dozen PBEMs; that said, this is your own game, by all means use whatever settings you think will be fun.


Changes I would make:


* Normal speed is going to be incredibly slow for a PBEM. Think of it this way- normal speed games often take until turn 250 or so to achieve a victory. Even if you guys can manage to keep the game moving at a turn-a-day pace, that means you'll be playing this PBEM for the better part of a year. If you can only manage a couple turns a week, you could be playing into 2017. It's rare to find a group of players who can all meet that commitment. Quick speed (which is a lot like BTS normal speed) also means you won't have around 40 deadly boring turns at the start of the game where players are moving one or two units and then ending turn.


* Find out what timezones your players are in, what what their windows of availability are, and then use that information to determine the player order. This will dramatically improve the turnaround rate.


* As Gekko and Akatosh said, don't use the Erebus map script. Not only are starts with it almost completely unbalanced, it's possible for one or more players to end up being geographically sequestered from the rest via mountains, unable to interact with the rest of the game. Pangea works reasonably well, as does Rainforest. Never pick Great Plains, btw- mana nodes won't spawn on it.


* A large or huge map with 4 or 5 players is absurdly large. Player interaction will be at a minimum for the vast majority of the game, unless the map generator is particularly cruel. Unless everyone is cool with their main contact being barbarians, reduce the map size to standard, or small for naturally large maps (like Highlands).


* I've never used Increasing Difficulty or End of Winter for a MP game before... I guess they shouldn't cause any bugs, but you might want to test them first.



The rest of the settings look good to me!

 

[Eclipse4449]

Thank you guys for your input!

 

[Qgqqqqq]

Echo everything BobCW said. I would add a few points however:

*If you are focusing on MP balance, go with Erebus in the Balance. I am a little biased, as I have taken over development of it, but it is the only mod being developed with MP PBEM in mind (v11.1 should be released in the next few days). If you plan on fielding an significant amount of AIs, then go for ExtraModMod, which rolls most of the balance changes of EitB with some AI upgrades and its own tweaks. Regardless, I would strongly recommend using a modmod, as FFH2 as is suffers from considerable problems with AI and balance.
*I would strongly underline the points on quick speed. Anything else is masochistic in a ancient-era start, especially if you can't mantain a 1tpd schedule. If you must use normal, consider starting an era in.
*By the sounds of things, you look like you are considering a large number of players. I would recommend sticking with 4-6 players if you keep it PBEM, as anything more and turns begin to be missed regularly. If you are prepared to use pitboss, then you will need EitB (or a modmod that uses the fix the reddit community found), a host, but otherwise you can play with a lot of players with only a couple of balance issues.
*I would recommend against populating the map with AIs. You can do it - but it can increase the distance between players and reduce player-player interaction considerably, and is also a very serious balance issue.
*Consider Full_of_Resources mapscript, to lushen up a map, if you intend on using a purely random map. (I can look over a map for you, for some small balancing)

Depending on how the settings pan out, I may be interested in playing this. (DON'T consider this a signup yet, however.)

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

*I would strongly underline the points on quick speed. Anything else is masochistic in a ancient-era start, especially if you can't mantain a 1tpd schedule. If you must use normal, consider starting an era in.
*By the sounds of things, you look like you are considering a large number of players. I would recommend sticking with 4-6 players if you keep it PBEM, as anything more and turns begin to be missed regularly. If you are prepared to use pitboss, then you will need EitB (or a modmod that uses the fix the reddit community found), a host, but otherwise you can play with a lot of players with only a couple of balance issues.

Are those 'tips' FFH specific or do you think they apply to PBEMs in general? Because if it's the latter this is as good a time as any for me to mention that I don't appreciate Realms Beyond elitists telling us how to run things around here. We know plenty about organizing games ourselves thank you very much.

 

[Luthor_Saxburg]

Knoedel, you sure know how to make friends!!!

I know very little about the details so I have no strong opinion about most of the details you guys are speaking about. But on the speed, I would favour fast over normal.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Knoedel, you sure know how to make friends!!!

One can really tell that Friendship is Magic is one of my favorite shows.

I know very little about the details so I have no strong opinion about most of the details you guys are speaking about. But on the speed, I would favour fast over normal.

Et tu, Luthor?

To be honest it depends mostly on which map size we are gonna pick in the end, I'll definitely veto Quick speed when it's above standard. Below you might be able to convince me.

 

[Eclipse4449]

I am currently driving Doing my job and can not post a response for a few hours, please respect that I'd like to post next

 

[Eclipse4449]

A tiny mouse looks up at the elephant and says BOO!

Greetings and Welcome guests and thank you for your invited input. As you can see I originally wanted the Erebus setting and "Quick" speed because as I mentioned my 2 player game is at turn 70 and have nothing to do, my worker sleeping because he simply does not have the tech required to do anything and that makes this game boring, what negates that is the level of aggressive barbarians outside of my area keeps me close to home!

I'm very happy creators and/modders are visiting as I respect you very much, we applaud what you do! Our players here in this particular game have all host several games and all use the GMT and time slot method to setup games to achieve a one-turn-per-day but we are a custom to having real life take presidency over these games, most of us work, have wives, children or studies or simply don't feel like it today, thus these games take far longer than a year and these players understand that.

As for Knoedel he is trying to help and is why he opened a thread to make this game the best it can be, but it appears he's have a bad week

Qqqqqqq please check out this thread for me
Fall from Heaven II PBEM game
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=500718
And PM me on what you think please.

Anyway I'm all for a modmod or using any mapscript so we are not at turn 70 and lose player due to lack of interest (This is above all the most important subject to me, this is why I dont just setup a random map and go with it. Way to many games start but continue almost never have the original players still at its conclusion.

So let's take the time, find what's best then launch

 

[BobCW]

Thank you Eclipse for the kind words.


Actually, if you are particularly worried about the map, I could make one for you, either by hand-drawing it or generating random maps until the game spits something out which I feel is reasonably balanced & fun. I have made several in the past.


If you decide to accept my offer, and I'll take absolutely no offense if you don't, I'll need the following:


* A list of players, in play order.

* Finalized game settings

* Map parameters (ie: size, islands/no islands, a rough indication of desired player starting distance, etc.)

* Everyone's civilizations & leaders.

* The email address of whoever the initial save file needs to go to.




Whatever you decide, I hope your game is a success

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

For the record I'm having a delightful week, I just feel like needlessly antagonizing new people for the fun of it.

 

[Eclipse4449]

For the record I'm having a delightful week, I just feel like needlessly antagonizing new people for the fun of it.

I'm going to Nuke you in one of our many games! Haha

 

[Qgqqqqq]

Thank you for your comments. I'll check that game out soon.

Knoedel, it is complicated. I would say that from my experience, that advice probably applies to both BTS and FFH. I chose to underline it, however, because FFH accentuates the problem - it is designed such that the first 50 turns or so (normal speed) not much of anything is happening, just move worker and push enter. A PBEM I am playing at the moment has half-decent pace (maybe one every two days), but it is still vaguely excrutiating to be 3 months in and still barely past the 2-minute turn pace - and this is on quick! So when I see people recommending normal speed, especially if you haven't played a FFH PBEM before, I for one am going to be cautious.
A normal speed PBEM is fine in BTS, so long as you can sort out a (relatively) regular 1tpd schedule. In FFH...it would be brutal.
But at the end of the day, I do play at RB, and I agree with most of the rules that are generally used there. If you think that's grounds to ignore my opinion, or a reason I shouldn't contribute to the discussion here, despite the invitation, then I won't trouble you any further.


I would say that these time rules are for assisting in reaching a 1tpd pace - the three games I'm in atm are all failing to meet that regularly, because of precisely what you said about real life - the point being that we want to make it as easy as possible for that to be reached, with slowdowns meaning a day missed rather then a week. We aren't as draconian as people here seem to think.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

The early game part I can understand, but I'm more worried that while it speeds up the beginning it would upset the balance for the rest of the game.

Of course you can contribute to the discussion and bring in your opinion, I just reserve myself the right to pick it apart.