Fall Further - Download and Current Changelog

[Breez]

An amusing idea, not something I'd thought of. did have another idea for an Austrin immortal, but perhaps names can be switched around

Declaration of battle:

"There can be only ONE!"

Wow... maybe I need to sleep because I am cracking myself up here.

 

[Sarisin]

Two things I didn't see which have been bugs and often showstoppers in games:

1. Blight. The two issues of its harshness and multiple Blights in a game. I just ran into this problem in a FFH2 game and will post about it there, but has anything been done with Blight in FF.

2. Mercurian Gate. Not getting Angels, having Basium not appear, etc. Anything on this?

On the werewolves, I really like the new system, however, I am concerned about one thing. That is the AI or whatever you want to call it of the Ravenous Werewolves running off to kill a unit. For example, will we have them throwing themselves at city walls with no chance of winning the battle? That was annoying before, but consider now if it is killed by a defending Archer (or Guardsmen unit) which then gets the promotion. That unit, as a chief defender, could produce billions and billions of werewolves.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how it works. Now if you can just get certain civs (listening Duracaat?) to stop beelining the Baron.

#112 Are you sure that the human player will be able to produce Boar Riders? I reported in the bugs thread that despite having all the requirements, Luchuirp and Khazad civs played by the human were not able to build this UU. AI could though.

I have to say I've really been looking forward to this and you guys did not disappoint. Playing FFH2 and even BTS were just not nearly as much fun.

 

[Hawkwood]

One thing I forgot to ask earlier: What incentive do the Malakim have for building their cities in the desert, apart from Dunespeak? Because you removed the bonii they get from desert (at least the ones I can remember).

 

[WarKirby]

On the werewolves, I really like the new system, however, I am concerned about one thing. That is the AI or whatever you want to call it of the Ravenous Werewolves running off to kill a unit. For example, will we have them throwing themselves at city walls with no chance of winning the battle? That was annoying before, but consider now if it is killed by a defending Archer (or Guardsmen unit) which then gets the promotion. That unit, as a chief defender, could produce billions and billions of werewolves.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how it works. Now if you can just get certain civs (listening Duracaat?) to stop beelining the Baron.

I'm doing a bit of playtesting on this just now. I got the baron a few turns ago. The werewolf spawn rate seems pretty low. One wolf out of 6 victories so far. And it promptly suicided on a goblin archer and died.

#112 Are you sure that the human player will be able to produce Boar Riders? I reported in the bugs thread that despite having all the requirements, Luchuirp and Khazad civs played by the human were not able to build this UU. AI could though.

I personally fixed this. It's requirements are now

Horseback Riding (tech)
Pigs (resource)

No buildings or other techs are needed.
You could build them before, as well. It's just that because they had silly requirements, you often had chariots before you could build them, and chariots obsolete them.

 

[Sarisin]

I'm doing a bit of playtesting on this just now. I got the baron a few turns ago. The werewolf spawn rate seems pretty low. One wolf out of 6 victories so far. And it promptly suicided on a goblin archer and died.



I personally fixed this. It's requirements are now

Horseback Riding (tech)
Pigs (resource)

No buildings or other techs are needed.
You could build them before, as well. It's just that because they had silly requirements, you often had chariots before you could build them, and chariots obsolete them.

You're right, that does seem low. I think there will be a problem with the Ravenous Werewolves suiciding themselves and giving that promotion. Also, you need to get the Baron up and running in the early game, or the Ravenous Werewolves will be outmatched by the units in the game later on.

Isn't a Stable necessary as well? I think Pigs are a bit more rare than Horses so there might be a problem there too, but let's see. Also, as the Boar Rider was more of a Horse Archer replacement, is there no equivalent unit for the dwarves?

I'm not sure why, but the AI clearly was able to have Boar Riders AND Dwarven Chariots as well. But, I see what you are saying about obsoleting them for the human player.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

is there a valid reason for Great Commanders to only be generated from combatXP against other civs? you know, raging barbs can be quite unforgiving and force into costant warfare which would quite likely generate a great commander after a while, it seems unfair. maybe that's exactly the reason? btw, will the great general points given from buildings/wonders be removed, or will it coexist with the new system? great generals and commanders are exactly the same, right?

edit: btw, what's the reasoning behind having Diakonos and Dark Forests be mutually exclusive? it seems to me they would fit quite well together, with dark forests spawning diakonos you know

edit2: Iron Weapons doesn't seem a particularly good idea for what should overcome Dark Forests btw: some units can't get it, you can be without Iron in sight, etc. couldn't it be linked to Tier 3 or higher units instead?

 

[FireBlaze]

While we're asking questions about the new version, do you guys know when the Revolutions mod will be incorporated into FF? I remember playing it awhile back, but then Jean moved to you guys.

 

[xienwolf]

Ravenous Werewolves ARE the units in the later game. Remember, it isn't a new unit, it is the exact same unit you just killed, but slightly weakened by the conversion process. And the chances of infecting your opponent when you die are far lower than the chances of creating a werewolf when you win, so it won't be often that the opposition gains a werewolf from the deal.

 

[Vehem]

is there a valid reason for Great Commanders to only be generated from combatXP against other civs? you know, raging barbs can be quite unforgiving and force into costant warfare which would quite likely generate a great commander after a while, it seems unfair. maybe that's exactly the reason?

That is exactly the reason

Fighting the barbarians in something that is necessary for all civs, whilst war against other players is (for one side at least) a choice. Lorewise it would make sense for any prolonged combat to create a leader, but gameplay wise it is designed to be a feature for civs that engage in more direct warfare (whether attacking or defending).

 

[xienwolf]

Also by allowing battle with the Barbarians to generate Great Generals, you suddenly make the most warlike of all the Civs (those who are Barbarian Trait) into the least likely to cultivate a Great General (which is MILDLY appropriate since they aren't exactly organized, but very contrary to the intended feel of the Civ)

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

thanx for the answer guys. it seems my guess was correct after all

I'll just repost the other question I added with edits to my previous post in case you missed it:

what's the reasoning behind having Diakonos and Dark Forests be mutually exclusive? it seems to me they would fit quite well together, with dark forests spawning diakonos you know.
Iron Weapons doesn't seem a particularly good idea for what should overcome Dark Forests btw: some units can't get it, you can be without Iron in sight, etc. couldn't it be linked to Tier 3 or higher units instead?

if you had read it already, but don't want to answer, just ignore this

 

[Vehem]

[QUOTE='[to_xp]I'll just repost the other question I added with edits to my previous post in case you missed it:

what's the reasoning behind having Diakonos and Dark Forests be mutually exclusive? it seems to me they would fit quite well together, with dark forests spawning diakonos you know.
Iron Weapons doesn't seem a particularly good idea for what should overcome Dark Forests btw: some units can't get it, you can be without Iron in sight, etc. couldn't it be linked to Tier 3 or higher units instead?

if you had read it already, but don't want to answer, just ignore this [/QUOTE]

It's one for Tarq really - it's his brainchild

I could guess at the reasoning, but he'd know for sure...

 

[gunnergoz]

I've had Civ4 since its release but never tried FFH until recently, after upgrading to BTS 3.19. Now I'm hooked and loving it. And I'm really looking forward to trying out FF but with the recent changes to 3.19, I can't use the 0.50 version of FF - so I"m trying to be patient waiting for the 0.51 version. Any idea how soon we are talking about before it releases? A week? A month? What I read of it sounds really, really cool. I have to thank all you dedicated modders out there, that's for sure.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I'm all hears about your guess if you wanna share it Vehem

btw, let me ask one more question I've already asked a few times already which had no answer yet: it seems that notque has not logged in on the forums since the 11th of May! have you guys heard from him ever since? I miss him and his AI-improving skills, and I certainly hope he's fine and kicking!

 

[Vehem]

Any idea how soon we are talking about before it releases? A week? A month? What I read of it sounds really, really cool. I have to thank all you dedicated modders out there, that's for sure.

As soon as we can get away with doing it - nearer to a week than a month, hopefully less if we get some time to throw at it this weekend.

I'm all hears about your guess if you wanna share it Vehem

btw, let me ask one more question I've already asked a few times already which had no answer yet: it seems that notque has not logged in on the forums since the 11th of May! have you guys heard from him ever since? I miss him and his AI-improving skills, and I certainly hope he's fine and kicking!

Sadly not - though the AI work I've done for this release is built on the design he started back then. I know he was saying that he may not have a lot of time to dedicate to it so it may just be that he's had to take a break from modding. Hopefully he will come back once he's able to...

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

yeah, I was expecting something like that. let's all sit down and play some good FF while we wait for him to come back

 

[Tarquelne]

what's the reasoning behind having Diakonos and Dark Forests be mutually exclusive?

Mercy.

Though as of the last version there is a small chance they'll both appear.

BTW: I expect significant changes after it's been play-tested by the general community and with the latest version. (Though I thought the same thing about the Equipment...)

Iron Weapons doesn't seem a particularly good idea for what should overcome Dark Forests btw: some units can't get it, you can be without Iron in sight, etc. couldn't it be linked to Tier 3 or higher units instead?

The Tech "Iron Working" is what's actually required, not Iron Weapons themselves.

It's assumed that with that tech you can scrape up enough of the metal to make some good axes even if you can't obtain enough to outfit an army.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

sure, but the point still stands. Elves for example are unlikely to shoot for iron working, while it would make sense for them to be kinda good at exploring dark forests.

 

[gunnergoz]

As soon as we can get away with doing it - nearer to a week than a month, hopefully less if we get some time to throw at it this weekend.

Thanks for letting me know. I look forward to this as I would a whole new game...and the price is right!
Seriously, thanks - I wish I had you guy's programming talent and passion. A lot of us out here get a lot of enjoyment from your creations.

 

[Tarquelne]

sure, but the point still stands. Elves for example are unlikely to shoot for iron working, while it would make sense for them to be kinda good at exploring dark forests.

Hmm... you no longer have to worry about which units have access to Iron Weapons, and it doesn't matter if the Resource Iron is around. Which point was that? That Blighted Forests won't be easy, or equally-easy, for all civs in all games?

It also makes sense for Elves to have special problems with Blighted Forests - they have far more to unlearn, and the Forest are likely to be especially malicious toward elves.