fascism in editor

wolfshanze, you must understand I developed this mod purely for civ balanced fascism. Though we could argue for thousands of posts on the merits and downfalls of fascism, I sternly believe that in relative terms there is equal amounts of corruption in capitalism and fascism. I believe that the tile penalty should be in place to symbolize the sheer amount of expenditure allocated to military. The trade bonus is in place because fascism is as far right as economics come. Of course people will still be highly motivated by the free enterprise system. Rush jobs should be paid as well for the same reason.

I think its time for this post to be closed. It's not going anywhere.



When in doubt, use a Cossack.
 
We'll have to agree to disagree, because historically and socialogically speaking, Fascism is vastly more corrupt in nature by it's very mechanism of government than a modern Democracy.

This is not to say that there is no corruption in a Democracy, but certainly, if you actually took the time to study Fascism, and the Third Reich in-particular, in more than a cursory capacity, and actually look at the inner workings of Fascism, you would have a whole new appreciation of how this form of government actually does work, and you would never put Fascism and Democracy in the same "corruption-level" category.
Your "stern belief" may well be set in your ways, but it is not set on reality. Though I cannot change a man's personal convictions, there are always the matters of truth, and truth be told, the way Fascism runs itself, it is far more susceptible and a victim to corruption than a Democracy.

A Democracy does have limiting checks and balances to corruption, where quite the opposite, Fascism practically ENCOURAGES corruption from within.

I certainly agree that in regards to gameplay matters in Civ3, certain liberties have to be taken for entertainment purposes, but to put the corruption level of Fascism the same as Democracy and then claim this to be accurate to reality is a slap in the face to every government and social teachings abound.

Fascism does rely on a capitalist economy, and beyond that, it's similarities with a Democracy end.

Perhaps this thread is going nowhere because you can't see the forest through the trees. Please go to your local library and pick up some books on government and Fascism... even perhaps something such as "Inside the Third Reich"... it's a heavy read, but very enlightning... after reading first-hand about the immense level of corruption in the Third Reich, it'll make all the silly political intrigues of our modern Democracies look like child's play, and you'll realize that your current opinion is not based on fact or reality.
 
I have read the rise and fall of the third reich, but my degree is in physics, so you probably have the upper hand in this argument. I'll deal with particle acceleration. You can tackle the whole history thing.
 
Originally posted by player1 fanatic


Yes, Fascist patch for Civ2 was a GREAT MOD.

But making fist Fascist MOD for Civ3 doesn't make it original.
In fact your version looks to much like some sort of super governement.

And there is NOTHING original in it.

But, this version with both trade bonus and tile penality is REALY ORIGINAL IDEA.

ignoramus :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: talkin out of his arse...

sorry, this caught my attention... carry on
 
fascism should be similar to communism in most respects and should really just be a matter of player choice as to which form of radical nationalist government he wishes to impose upon his civ nation.

the two are opposite ends of the totalitarian spectrum.

as such in my mod they both suffer the same amount of corruption but in different ways. Communism has communal corruption which spreads problematic corroption evenly across your whole empire. Fascism then naturally has your basic problematic corruption. Totalitarian governments are then seen as developments of the earlier monarchical governments available in the late ancient age.

2 new governments Social Democracy and Federal Republic are less corrupt with Nuisance level corruption.

And the only government to have no corruption is the Theocracy. they are hit with the tile penalty to compensate. the no corruption for theocracy was an attempt to emulate the fundamentalist govt. in civ2. less corruption means more money, think tythes of civ2.

Republic and democracy have both been made to represent their ancient age governments developed by the Romans and the Greeks. Off the top of my head I can't remember what corruption level I gave to democracy but republic is rampant, same as despotism.
 
Theoretical discussions aside, just exactly what would the point be in Civ3 to having a late-game government with "problematic" corruption as you describe?

Such a horrible level of corruption would make the government if not unplayable, certainly far more handicapped than other late-game governments, and therefore a pointless addition to the game.

Theocracy with lower corruption than all other governments is also living in a fantasy land. I'm not sure what the point of doing this is, certainly it is not based on reality... basing it on Civ2's fundamentalism is even more flawed, considering the fact that Civ2's fundy government was seriously overpowered and far from balanced with other governments in the game.
 
Originally posted by Wolfshanze
Theoretical discussions aside, just exactly what would the point be in Civ3 to having a late-game government with "problematic" corruption as you describe?

Such a horrible level of corruption would make the government if not unplayable, certainly far more handicapped than other late-game governments, and therefore a pointless addition to the game.

As I said in my post "Communism has communal corruption which spreads problematic corroption evenly across your whole empire. Fascism then naturally has your basic problematic corruption." Fascism also has paid labor as opposed to Communisms forced labor. This represents the fact that Fascism is Capitalist in nature.

I also indicated that I had changed the corruption values for the other late game governments. Federal Republic is set to Nuisance, only one better than Fascism and I mispoke when I said I had set Social Democracy to Nuisance as well, it is set at communal.

So you see, its not so pointless after all, unless you consider communism to be pointless. take a look at the mod before you go throwing criticism everywhere.

Theocracy with lower corruption than all other governments is also living in a fantasy land. I'm not sure what the point of doing this is, certainly it is not based on reality... basing it on Civ2's fundamentalism is even more flawed, considering the fact that Civ2's fundy government was seriously overpowered and far from balanced with other governments in the game.

I am not suggesting that in fact a theocracy would have minimal corruption. This was done for play balancing reasons, and theoretically, at least, a theocacy should have minimal corruption. I agree that Civ2 fundamentalism was over powering, but don't worry your little head over it, Civ3 does not allow for that kind of government. I said I was attempting to emulate a certain aspect of the government, the tything, not the whole thing. That is why theocracy is also saddled with the standard tile penalty and, although I didn't mention this earlier, forced labor.
 
The most basic definition of fascism is the military enforcement of a market economy.

If this definition was used in Civ3, fascism would be an uber government with no drawbacks.
 
I don't really think the military has much to do with enforcing anyone's economy... it's more an extension of foreign policy, not domestic economics.

Fascism is a system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with a belligerant nationalism.
 
here is the pedia text from my mod. I think it gives a pretty good definition of fascism and sets up the basis for the settings in the mod.

#GOVT_Fascism
^
^
^Fascism, modern political ideology that seeks to regenerate the social, economic, and cultural life of a country by basing it on a heightened sense of national belonging or ethnic identity. Fascism rejects liberal ideas such as freedom and individual rights, and often presses for the destruction of elections, legislatures, and other elements of democracy. Despite the idealistic goals of fascism, attempts to build fascist societies have led to wars and persecutions that caused millions of deaths. As a result, fascism is strongly associated with right-wing fanaticism, racism, totalitarianism, and violence.
^Worker efficiency 100%
^Hurry Method Paid Labor
^Corruption / Waste Problematic
^Draft Rate 3
^Military Police Limit 3
^Unit Support
^ per town 3
^ per city 6
^ per metropolis 10
#DESC_GOVT_Fascism
^
^
^
The term fascism was first used by Italian dictator Benito Mussolini in 1919. The term comes from the Italian word fascio, which means “union” or “league.” It also refers to the ancient Roman symbol of power, the fasces, a bundle of sticks bound to an ax, which represented civic unity and the authority of Roman officials to punish wrongdoers.

Fascist movements surfaced in most European countries and in some former European colonies in the early 20th century. Fascist political parties and movements capitalized on the intense patriotism that emerged as a response to widespread social and political uncertainty after World War I (1914-1918) and the Russian Revolution of 1917. With the important exceptions of Italy and Germany, however, fascist movements failed in their attempts to seize political power. In Italy and Germany after World War I, fascists managed to win control of the state and attempted to dominate all of Europe, resulting in millions of deaths in the Holocaust and World War II (1939-1945). Because fascism had a decisive impact on European history from the end of World War I until the end of the World War II, the period from 1918 to 1945 is sometimes called the fascist era. Fascism was widely discredited after Italy and Germany lost World War II, but persists today in new forms.

The term fascism includes most movements that aim for total social renewal based on the national community while also pushing for a rejection of liberal democratic institutions. Scholars disagree over how to define the basic elements of fascism. Marxist historians and political scientists (that is, those who base their approach on the writings of German political theorist Karl Marx) view fascism as a form of politics that is cynically adopted by governments to support capitalism and to prevent a socialist revolution. These scholars have applied the label of fascism to many authoritarian regimes that came to power between World War I and World War II, such as those in Portugal, Austria, Poland, and Japan. Marxist scholars also label as fascist some authoritarian governments that emerged after World War II, including regimes in Argentina, Chile, Greece, and South Africa.
 
I run several websites... one of which is for the Civ Fascist Patch
 
Originally posted by Kal-el
With the important exceptions of Italy and Germany, however, fascist movements failed in their attempts to seize political power.

They also seized power in Spain under the leadership of General Franco after winning a 3 year civil war from 1936-39. If anyone cares, Mussolini's definition of Fascism can be read here
 
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