Faster Marathon Training and Constructing

[Anthropoid]

I've followed through from Kael's guide and made a very simple mod, my first for this game.

The title of the mod is "Faster Marathon Training and Constructing." Here is the description:

This mod comprises two changes to game dynamics at Marathon game speed in:
<install>\Sid Meier's Civilization V\Assets\Gameplay\XML\GameInfo.xml

1. Speed up unit production by 50% and
<TrainPercent>300</TrainPercent> is changed from (default = 300) to (150 = modded)

2. Speed up building production by 25%.
<ConstructPercent>300</ConstructPercent> which is changed from (default = 300) to (225 = modded).

The overall goal of these changes is to leave the pace of most processes in the game (tech advance, exploration, building, culture expansion, diplomacy, etc.) unchanged relative to vanilla Marathon speed; but to increase the rate at which units and buildings are built.

I consider the mod "alpha" until I myself and/or others have tested it enough to conclude that the effect is salutary (for those of us who want such changes!) and balanced relative to the AI. I apprecate any feedback on this mod that may go toward confirmation of these conditions: dichebach AT gmai

I created an Civ5GameSpeeds.xml file in ModBuddy, but it seems to have not been saved or something. Luckily I had it it an .xml saved on my destop to:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<!-- edited with XMLSPY v2004 rel. 2 U (http://www.xmlspy.com) by Jon Shafer (Firaxis Games) -->
<GameData>
	<GameSpeeds>
		<Update>
                        <Set TrainPercent="150"/>
                        <Set ConstructPercent="225"/>
                        <Where GameSpeedsType="Marathon"/>
		</Update>
	</GameSpeeds>
</GameData>

I have a game started up and I've made note of the turns to produce the first tech (Mining in 35) and how long to produce first units and buildings with the capital producing 5 hammers:
Settler 54 turns
Worker 42 turns
Scout 15 turns
Warrior 24 turns
Monument 24 turns.

I believe despite me having the mod turned in in the Mod Selection screen, because the GameSpeed.xml file was not in the mod folder when I initially created the game, the actual changes may not be in play in those numbers. They seem very close to vanilla rates.

So now, I created a new .xml file with the code above in the folder, but I don't know rebooting the game and mod should be enough to update the content so the mods effects on production and training rates kick in . . .assuming there isn't some other problelm going on that I'm missing.

 

[bane_]

This is the wrong subforum, I've already reported it, soon it'll be moved to the C&C main forum, where your question will have more chances to get answered.
But just for reference, it should be

<Where Type="GAMESPEED_EPIC"/>

...instead of GameSpeedsType="Marathon".

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Moderator Action: As Bane_ stated, the forum this should be in is the main Creation and Customisation forum (where all queries, requests for help and works-in-progress go). The "Mod Components" sub-forum is for completed mod components only. I've moved the thread and hope you get your mod up-and-running soon.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[PawelS]

Also, you can't have two <Set>s per <Update>. So it should be like this:

<GameData>
	<GameSpeeds>
		<Update>
                        <Set TrainPercent="150" ConstructPercent="225"/>
                        <Where Type="GAMESPEED_MARATHON"/>
		</Update>
	</GameSpeeds>
</GameData>

 

[Anthropoid]

Thanks a ton guys

 

[Anthropoid]

Whoops double post.

 

[Anthropoid]

So what would be the easiest way for me to discern whether or not my mod is "working," meaning it is doing what it is supposed to do?

I started up a new game as Babylon again, and these are the build times I'm observing right at the start:
Settler 46 (not possible to build it obviously, but that is how long it is saying to do so once I can)
versus it was: "Settler 54" in the version in which I'm sure the mod was not 'in effect.'

I would have thought that reducing Train by 50% and Construct by 25% would lead to Settler taking (54 / 2 = 27) turns not x * 54 = 46 turns ??

Moreover, all the other units and buildings I can build at start are exactly the same number of turns:
Worker 42
Scout 15
Warrior 24
Monument 24

My naive assumption was that, if the mod is "working" all of those values would have been cut by either 50% or 25%, no?

 

[PawelS]

Make sure your XML file is set to OnModActivated -> UpdateDatabase.

Also, you should enable logging and check what the logs say.

To see if your changes are actually applied to the database, use a program that can view SQLite databases (I use the SQLite Manager addon for Mozilla Firefox, but there are also other programs that can do it), and open the following file (while the mod is active):

My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\cache\Civ5DebugDatabase.db

Here you can see all the tables and check if your changes are in.

 

[Anthropoid]

Thanks again PawelS !

ADDIT: ah okay. Still "300"s in my values for those two variables (TrainPercent and BuildPercent).

I think I'm somehoew screwing up at the final stages of making the mod in ModBuddy. Luckily it is such a small amount of code, I think I'll just turn it all off and go back and start from scratch. Practice makes perfect.

ADDIT*2: Hrmmpphh! Apparently easier said than done . . .

 

[Anthropoid]

Okay, the error I was getting was either a result of having created too many aborted first attempted mod files (which I've corrected by clearing my Temps folder) or running Steam in offline mode (which I've reset).

Two things I'm not liking about ModBuddy:

1. Completely deleting all the files associate with a botched previous mod seems to require manual intervention.

2. It is unclear how to take the final step of "saving" a mod.

The steps I'm following: (a) select New Mod, fill in the name, author, description
(b) create the .xml file needed, save and close it;
(c) enter in the properties setting (most notably Action: OnModActivated -> UpdateDatabase-> CIV5GameSpeeds.xml)
(d) Ctrl-S
(e) close ModBuddy launch Civ5, click Mods, select the Mod, launch new game.

I suspect I'm either not doing something b/w (c) and (d) that I need to be doing or that I have to compile/publish/finalize the mod somehow to make it function and that simply hitting Ctrl-S is not sufficient.

 

[Anthropoid]

Ha! I wasn't "Building"!

Before you can test your mod you need ModBuddy to "Build" it for you. Building is the process of taking everything you have included with your mod and putting it in a format the game can recognize. You will need to Build your mod each time you want all your latest changes to take effect. You should build frequently and test each change as you add it (rather than changing a lot of files at once then having the hard task of figuring out which change is keeping the game from loading).

FINALLY IT WORKS!

 

[Anthropoid]

Now my question is: what is the normal ethical practice with respect to other people's mods?

Say for example, I'm playing my "Faster Marathon Training and Constructing" to test it right now, but also with:
3 units per tile
Caravansary Improved
Beyond the Future
Citadel buff - autocracy mix

If I find that I like this mix, and I would like to package some or all of the game changes included in them I would assume that my first best choice is to:

1. Contact the mod maker and ask for permission to create some sort of "bundle?"

2. Short of that happening because of non-response, how long should I wait?

3. If refused, then obviously just reverse engineering their changes by viewing their documents and then writing them myself is acceptable I would think.

4. Are their elements within ModBuddy to assist with integrating multiple mods into one 'package?' For example, I was a huge fan of History in the Making, which compiled a number of diffent mods; any features of ModBuddy that assist with this or is it mainly just a matter of copying and pasting / creating the multiple files under the one mod title?

Assuming that I do not burn out or get distracted (which may not happen, as I now have professional reasons to become familiar with SQL and also to increase my 'visibility' by making a coding/modding portofolio) some things I'd like to do with this game:

A. Make combat more reailstic by reduing all combat to the same hex (except for certain modern artillery type units with long range).

I'm undecided what stacking limit should be, most likely 5 or 7, making an imbalance in any combat always inherent. How to handle defense and fortification I'm unsure, but most likely, something like (if stacking limit = 5) then fortification value is reduced each turn for each additional friendly unit in exess of 2 which which ends the turn in the hex. For example 1 unit may cause fortification value to drop by 45% in turn one, and an additional 35% in turn 2. Thus, two units per hex would always be optimum to defend (passing through hex would not impact fortification value), and 3 units attacking would always be optimum. The numbers would be increased by +1 in the instance I decided to try to model it on a 7 per hex stacking rule.

B . Change "ranged" units to "skirmish units" which gain an ability to cause damage opportunistically and also when other units engage in melee. [new promotions or what not that allow "evasion" "escape" "feint" etc. might all be conceivable, though I don't want to jinx myself by conceving TOO MUCH at this early stage.]

C. Change ZOC so that it is basically possible to "immobilize" enemy units with enough encirclement, and also so that combat effectiveness is more impacted by encirclement.

D. Increase the ZOC effects of a hex with one "ranged" and one "melee." Alternatively if I decide a 7 unit per hex stacking limit is better to go for, then adding one "mobile" unit (or however they are referred too, hoofed or wheeled or tracked units) would add additioinal value to ZOC interdiction.

The idea with all of this (and assuming that changes to the AI strategy files can 'teach' him how to do this stuff): to make the game more about small strategically composed 'combined arms' stacks, i.e, more of a 'middle-ground' between current NO STACKING and bad old STACK OF DOOM.

E. Modify all of the salient AI strategy and tactics files to (hopefully) be able to cope with such drastic changes.

In honesty, I've really only just started playing the game. I have yet to get to Renaissance stage, nor to win one even in vanilla. But I must play the slowest speed available, and teh slow rate of units and buildings was driving me crazy! So now that I've got that modded I can go ahead and build up some experience with how the 'basically vanilla' game plays.

Appreciate any thoughts of feedback on this stuff guys.

I've been playing Civ since #1, and like I said, now have good situation to coordinate my modding activities to leverage career stuff. I may not get around to making all the stuff I'm talking about for a year or more but it would be fun to get it all put together and working smooth eventually.

 

[Gilgamesch]

Good luck with your ideas

For the use of other mods, there is the Modiquette.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=473030

 

[Anthropoid]

Thanks Gilgamesch. It is good to know a very sensible ethos has been in effect, codified and the need to hassle with getting permission is more or less eschewed (rightfully so) but instead the focus is put on giving credit where it is due. That to me makes the best sense for a community like this one, and indeed for most modern modding communities. It always puzzles me when guys feel like they cannot make any use of something which another gamer has clearly made a great effort to make available to anyone and everyone. But then, some communities do still call for a "ask first and do not use without permission" standard, which seems silly given that publishing a mod to a public data repository (even one less accessible than Steam workshop) basically amounts to giving people implicit permission to use at will.

I will have a look at your big mod bundle.

Could you comment on whether you could see any of the sort of changes I have in mind being beneficial to a large modpack like yours? Are there specific things you suggest doing or not doing that are in the vein of what I have in mind?

ADDIT: BTW, I've published up my little "Faster Marathon Training and Constructing" mod and (realizing it is a repeat of the standard for the community) anyone is welcome to make any use of it they want! (short of making money). If you credit me great, if not not too big a deal either. It is the type of "mod" that may well fit well with a large complex mod like yours Gilgamesch.

 

[Gilgamesch]

For new modders i would always recommand to look at the tutorial section.
There are great tutorials for nearly all aspects of modding CiV.

Start with little changes and learn to understand the basics, then go bigger.

For f.e. chaniging game pathing is a long progress, because you need to keep the balane for the ai at a good level.

We have in CCTP our own pathing, and its still not perfect, it needs test plays and reports by players so that we can adjust it.


Also modding is very time consuming work dont expect all your ideas will finished soon, even when they look easy to include.

 

[Anthropoid]

Yeah, not biting off more than you can chew is good advice in virtually all endeavors

I need to just PLAY the dang game for a bit so I know what vanilla, or at least my lightly modded feel like. No point trying to mod what you don't really understand.

Despite there being some elements to the game I find less preferable, overall, I think they've done a good job of capturing a feeling of a civilization growing and developing much more than in any previous version. Warmongering was always too easy in the past; it is obviously still 'easy' but it feels 'difficult' in the right ways and in the right degrees.