Fastest player on Steam

[Silverfuturist]

There are some really fast guys out there... but this one player Twinsen is so fast I am completly baffled. He is able to fortify 5 units before I can get a single move in for example. I realize people have gaming machines/systems/connections etc, but when I battled him last game my PC would hang for a moment, it feels like his machine is interfering with mine. Not accusing him of cheating of course, but when every red unit of his gets to retreat beginning of turn, every red unit of mine dies beginning of turn, the game ceases to be fun. Promotions for me = a dead unit, promotions for him = insta heal. The final example: he was able to use a mounted unit as "zone of control disruption." He moves mounted unit back and forth in front of my army, and then a unit(s) end up on the wrong spot when I try to move them - which of course means they die.

In that situation, having bigger prod and bigger army was meaningless, as my hammers ended up in a black hole of dissapearing units.

There are some fast guys like UniversalSoldier, DJMax, etc, but this guy's speed was nothing like I ever experienced. He could be another player undercover... maybe the speed varies between players so not everybody has this experience with him?

 

[Tabarnak]

Did you have a little lag between turns?(i.e. before the turn begins). Only a single second of lag is enough to ''command'' 5-6 units before the turn begins.

 

[Pye]

I've met something like this several times with different players.
Imho, this is Civ5 networking part fault.

If the guy is really fast( some SC/SC2/WC3 veteran = 200-300 apm + hotkeys spam) and he is the host, it is possible to pull it.

Civ5 networking and unit promotion mechanics are wide open to any abuse without cheats.

 

[BBMorti]

There is the host factor, in always getting to see the next turn first.. then there is the monster computer with Swedish fiber net, or so-factor.. if combined he will have plenty of time for one with fast fingers to make a ton of moves. The host has the biggest advantage in MP games.

 

[Silverfuturist]

Did you have a little lag between turns?(i.e. before the turn begins). Only a single second of lag is enough to ''command'' 5-6 units before the turn begins.

Sometimes there was lag. In the NQ chatroom other players, some of them even fast, were saying they can't match his speed. Twinsen was beaming about being posted about on Civfanatics, so I shall continue my tirade!

Twinsen prefers the "suicide bomber" strategy. Rush neighbor, and if neighbor is unsuspecting, continue steamrolling the continent with puppet empire advantage. BUT if neighbor is prepared, both players are locked in a stalemate... by turn 100, 25 science each. Then another neighbor, who can be the slowest player ever, mops both hapless players up with advanced units. This brings Twinsen great joy, he even told me how much fun he was having with this diabolical plan went into effect!

 

[AlwAysAnA]

IMO best player there is, at least top three.

FYI he is using hotkeys.

 

[Pye]

Twinsen prefers the "suicide bomber" strategy. Rush neighbor, and if neighbor is unsuspecting, continue steamrolling the continent with puppet empire advantage. BUT if neighbor is prepared, both players are locked in a stalemate... by turn 100, 25 science each. Then another neighbor, who can be the slowest player ever, mops both hapless players up with advanced units. This brings Twinsen great joy, he even told me how much fun he was having with this diabolical plan went into effect!

He lied to you! His plan is to teach every FFA player to do it every game. And his true plan is pretty successful. It happens every second game to me.

 

[tommynt]

u only get a champ by bashing with the champs, maybe he should try start?
If a player isnt pro every speed moving units wont help him.

Speed seems to me is mainly about using hotkeys, and thats a really bad thing about civ5 - hotkeys arent obvious - no easy way to find them out.
So the few who bother and use them got a huge advantage.

 

[wloff]

u only get a champ by bashing with the champs, maybe he should try start?
If a player isnt pro every speed moving units wont help him.

Yeh, but quite honestly, it's really silly that in a turn-based strategy game it's a vital skill to be able to click units and spam hotkeys as fast as possible Especially when things like lag are yet to come into play. Oh well.

 

[greygamer]

Civ V is a TBS game, having house rules that all PvP activity is done an agreed turn sequence could help. Why isn't Hotseat an internet option?

 

[tommynt]

Civ V is a TBS game, having house rules that all PvP activity is done an agreed turn sequence could help. Why isn't Hotseat an internet option?

in the end civ5 is a game about develpoing a civilisation what means its a lot about war, dont think real civilisations had rules about how to do a war when they went war, exctually the opposite is true.

If u play clever it doesnt matter at all if u move slower or faster, at least not if u r more clever as the other guy

 

[greygamer]

in the end civ5 is a game about develpoing a civilisation what means its a lot about war, dont think real civilisations had rules about how to do a war when they went war, exctually the opposite is true.

If u play clever it doesnt matter at all if u move slower or faster, at least not if u r more clever as the other guy

The point I was trying to make is that internet multiplayer turns the game into a RTS/TBS hybrid. I would have preferred the option to keep it completely TBS. That still means war ...but a turn based war.

In fact there are always rules of war, not all nations agree on those rules of course. Just like players in multiplayer can agree on house rules. In the end players will tend to look for games against those who agree with their rule set for the reasons that are shown in the original post.

 

[tommynt]

I would have preferred the option to keep it completely TBS. That still means war ...but a turn based war.

there is a dumb threads for that allready, u really want turn a 3 hour game into a 15 hour game?

Sim moves is all about getting used to.
The only ones complaining about them are bad players who loose wars but dont figure they d loose anyway, cause they r bad
Moderator Action: Please don't troll around.

 

[greygamer]

there is a dumb threads for that allready, u really want turn a 3 hour game into a 15 hour game?

Sim moves is all about getting used to.
The only ones complaining about them are bad players who loose wars but dont figure they d loose anyway, cause they r bad

If I wanted a 3 hour game I wouldn't be playing Civ at all
I am just saying hotseat internet should have been an option, then people could choose the style they wanted.

FYI I didn't create this thread. Like you I am just trying to contribute (hopefully in a constructive manner).

 

[Diendiadre]

I'm sorry to say this Tommynt, but greygamer has a point. I do meet a lot multiplayers who have the same opinion that you have though Tommynt. I understand why that makes a lot of gamers like this idea, but a lot of us also don't like this idea, since we could easily play starcraft 2 instead. There you can actually use all of your apm, in these games it's just weird. The game isn't built for it.

Indeed civilization 5 should be turn based even in multiplayer and there's an easy rule to use to achieve this. Let one of the players go first in combat. The second go after the first player has moved all of his troops and so on. This will create a turnbased combat. Anything else is just weird.

Another idea is to nerf all archers, crossbows and so on, because these units gets the most benefit from acting first in combat. They are therefore not especially good multiplayer units. Instead normal infantry and cavalry should recieve a boost.

However considering the vast amount of players who play civilization 5 and don't want to learn proper turnbased combat, I can easily forsee them not liking these changes.

 

[Silverfuturist]

If u play clever it doesnt matter at all if u move slower or faster, at least not if u r more clever as the other guy

There is some truth to this statement. I agree, if the player isn't pro, I don't care how fast they move.

However: tournament chess players know that the player going first (the white pieces) wins 10% more often then the person going second when the players are of even skill (databasing games shows this easily.) In fact, pairings for who is going first is such a big deal in tournaments, that if a player thinks the pairings were done incorrectly and they should be getting the white pieces next game, they will raise a big fuss, and some players will even withdraw from the event! In chess you move 1 piece at a time, in civ you move many pieces at a time. From my experience, moving first in Civ is a lot stronger than moving first in chess. Also, if you know you can move first more often than your opponent, more tactics and ideas are open to you.

Here is an example - UniversalSoldier (regarded as a top player) has quit several games with me where he was moving second. One time he said "I tried playing on my laptop, it is too slow, can't play this" and left on a North vs South map teamer.

I have another statement about moving and tactics. I had a game with an aggressive Spain next to me and I was Inca. Even though they found 2 early wonders, bought 2 early cities, massed units, placed them clever etc, I had the hill movement bonus which enabled me to act first. The Spain player was faster then me normally, but with Inca/hills I had first shoot ability. First shoot with comp bows meant that despite having less production, I conquored Spain. Tommynt might have even been in this game!

 

[Diendiadre]

Silverfuturist: There's no question to wether going first is good thing in civilization V or not, since by the usage of archers it's possible to eliminate several pieces for the enemy by starting first. However, he does sacrifise position for every attack he does, therefore something could be won, if the other player moves after, the first player has already made all of his attacks.

The problem is that the first and fastest player almost always knows this. Well, there are exceptions, but let's not dwell on this. The problem arises that he might use this knowledge to make the enemy miss an opportunity to attack back, by also having a few units on unsafe positions on hold, to move them at the latest possible opportunity and then at the first possible opportunity, thereby creating a "double move". This is really abusing the simultaneous system to it's very limit.

Of course this can be avoided by having a gentleman's agreement on who goes first and who goes second. Getting people to agree to this, might require a lot though, since I've been to quite many games with people who I don't know and who weren't agreeing on anything.

Another idea is to play by mail using the great multiplayer robot or what's it called, where the game will be turn based. You could also try to play without simultaneous and just wait for your turn. This will take enormous amounts of time and will probably be deemed boring, but could probably be done, if everyone knew each other. Using skype so that everyone could chat about something, might help. It might also help towards making sure, the current player hurries up with his turn.

This post has gone on for too long time and provides with a lot of unnecessary information. Read it at your own peril.

 

[Gucumatz]

Twinsen has a faster PC compared to mine when I have played him. Normally I adopt a different strategy when it comes to faster players. Realize that if they attack first, they will have moved from their positions. Keep units in the Fog of War and try to catch opposing armies into traps. Put a unit out front (or two) that can soak damage as a decoy and then have it retreat back. With any luck some units will pursue it giving the rest of your army an advantage to slaughter.

 

[tommynt]

Here is an example - UniversalSoldier (regarded as a top player) has quit several games with me where he was moving second.

he is only good cause usually he gets to move 1. vs most people, guess you are a way better all around player