Fastest Science Victory

@Notacop thanks. I did not make any notes during the game, so I don't recall my exact timings, but I did go construction first. I had no horses in the cap, so I needed to do my conquests with composite bowmen. Production in the cap was Ok. It did not have hills, but it did grow very big (46 at the end), plus I had two strong expands, and also the idea of this approach is to let the AI build some wonders, so the capital can focus on things like floating gardens, library, national college, etc.
 

@Notacop There used to be a way to look up which games were submitted to the CFC HOF but that site seems to be down, at least for me Link.
This link doesn't work for me either :/

Very interesting about order vs freedom I think I will try freedom for a bit, also interesting about oxford that there are so many different places people are using it
Spoiler WF results :

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Put every 5 cities on WF and even popped a GA for golden age. What do I do with my GW:ers now?

I am trying to win speedrun science victory and I'm trying to beat my last SV338 with same settings, This thread has many great tips in it!

EDIT UPDATE: ended up losing turn 220 because I had defensive pact with Askia and england declared war on Askia which means me to.


Spoiler City state :

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New question: why does citystates that I just met have -20 influence as baseline? also Aztec doesn't want peace after I stole worker?
 
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New PB!

Thanks to the thread, I went from the SV338 earlier, to this SV261! with same settings.

Spoiler Turn 100 :

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Spoiler Turn 200 :

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Spoiler Turn 261 :

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Played fair and square, no reloads, rerolls or any cheese. Just extremely fast Sweden Science win :) Thanks again for all the tips in the thread I've read through all of it now
 

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@Olle Wernersson Nice job! Turn 261 is a great improvement, well done. Did you end up trying freedom?

Put every 5 cities on WF and even popped a GA for golden age. What do I do with my GW:ers now?
Typically I use my great writers for timing policies as needed. Most games this means using a great writer to get mercantilism (if I haven't gotten it yet) when I research plastics, another one to take the rationalism finisher when I research rocketry and use the free tech on satellites, and another one to take the level 3 tenet in freedom/order in time to buy/build the rocket parts. You can also use the statue of liberty for one of these, but I find it's helpful to build that earlier to get the extra production from specialists. If I am low on culture, then I will save all great writers until the very end after 8 turns of golden age in the modern or atomic era to get the most culture out of them. If you win the worlds fair or are Poland, getting all the policies usually isn't a problem. Great artists are used to chain the golden age, usually just before plastics to the end of the game.

New question: why does citystates that I just met have -20 influence as baseline? also Aztec doesn't want peace after I stole worker?
This might be because you declared war on multiple city states. I think if you declare war on 2 or more city states, then the rest of the city states will have a resting point of -20 influence, something like that. Sometimes AIs don't want peace for a while after you declare war. Warmongery civs especially, they may not settle for peace for a long time, like 20-50 turns, if ever. For close neighbors, I usually try to get peace within 10 turns or so, giving me enough time to steal a few workers. If you settle for peace within 10 turns or so, the AI will usually send you a caravan that boosts your science and sometimes will give you a declaration of friendship immediately. Usually I declar war on only 1 city state thats close by, then 2 to 3 other civs for stealing workers. I'll keep the war with the city state going for a while, usually long enough to steal 3 to 4 workers. When they start getting comp bows/other military out is usually when I settle for peace with the city state.

Glad you found the tips in this thread useful. If you want to improve further, my advice would be to use a civ that has a good early boost or unit. Poland, Bablyon, Spain, Attila, Shoshone as an example. Each of these civs can give you a good start which is crucial for fast finish times. Best of luck
 
Nice job! Turn 261 is a great improvement, well done. Did you end up trying freedom?
Thank you :) Yes! I really liked freedom, especially when I saw that you could take loans from other civs and buy all space ship parts, which seems way to good to give up for order in my eyes for now. I think freedom suits my playstyle aswell as I want to be able to pull off wins on these settings consistantly on every game, no matter what the map reveals or what civs declare war on me.

Typically I use my great writers for timing policies as needed. Most games this means using a great writer to get mercantilism (if I haven't gotten it yet) when I research plastics
This is a great tip and makes me realise that I can probably improve my lategame speed by saving up enough gold to buy the labs right after researching plastics, this is something I didn't have enough gold for my last game.

This might be because you declared war on multiple city states. I think if you declare war on 2 or more city states, then the rest of the city states will have a resting point of -20 influence, something like that.
I suspected it to be because of the stealing of workers but it seems to be so unconsistant which citystate becomes "angry" and which doesn't. I defenitely will take with me that declaring war with more than 1 city state can have these consequenses

For now I like to play Sweden as its my home and will play another game and try and win with my new knowledge :)
 
I suspected it to be because of the stealing of workers but it seems to be so unconsistant which citystate becomes "angry" and which doesn't. I defenitely will take with me that declaring war with more than 1 city state can have these consequenses
Yes, declaring war on more than one city state is almost always a bad idea. As you found out, it makes other CS angry but it also gives you negative modifiers with the AI civilizations. So it’s a double whammy.
 
2nd Win in a row!

SV323 - (Sweden, Deity, Standard speed, Standars size, Continents)
Spoiler Turn 100 :

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Spoiler Turn 200 :

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Spoiler Turn 323 :

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This is the first time I've won two games in a row, no rerolls or anything like that ofcourse. This game was very action filled with wars against Denmark in the middle game and wars with pretty much everyone in the late game. Having only 3 cities slowed down science significantly and I don't know if going 4 cities here would have resulted in faster victory turn. I would have never won this game a week ago :)
 

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3rd Win in a row

SV290 - (Sweden, Deity, Standard speed, Standars size, Continents)
Spoiler Turn 100 :

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Spoiler Turn 200 :

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Spoiler Turn 290 :

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A 3rd win in a row makes me feel like I can win on these settings consistently but I shouldn't get too full of myself. This game felt good in the start with the island to myslef and I got kinda surprised that I wasn't closer to beating my pb, I think some things might have contributed to this game being a little slower than my pb even though both had 5 cities, this game AI took both Oracle and PT, no early trade routes from AI made science early game little slower. Overall science was the biggest limetor for me this game and I'm not to confident I can beat 261 right now
 

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4th Win in a row!

SV346 - (Sweden, Deity, Standard speed, Standars size, Continents)

Spoiler Turn 100 :

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Spoiler Turn 164 war :

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Spoiler Turn 200 :

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Spoiler Turn 300 :

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Spoiler Turn 346 :

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This was the hardest win, there where multiple times where I was close to collapse, ottoman was a nightmare declaring war constantly and killing most CS and AI. They burned one of our cities to the ground slowing down science progress significantly. Somehow just survived the everlasting war in the endgame long enough to launch the rocket. gg
 

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Nice Olle, looks like you can consistently win on deity, congrats! I can provide some general advice based on your screenshots to help you beat your turn record. If you have any questions or want to discuss further just let me know.

- Looking at your game 4 turn 100 screenshot, your cities look to be low pop for turn 100. Part of this is due to the map, you can see there are a lot of tundra/1 food tiles around your cities. A better map and/or map script would help with this. I don't have much experience with continents, but in general tundra is going to be tough to get good finish times with. The other part seems to be settling cities late. What is your typical capital build order? About what turn do you start building settlers and settle your cities? For reference, I usually start making settlers around turn 16-24 or so depending on the game, with the aim to have 4 cities by turn 40 to 50 or so

- I try to have at least 8 to 10 citizens in each city when I finish researching education, usually around turn 90 to 100. When I get to plastics, cities are usually anywhere from 15 to 24+ pop depending on how many cities I have (more cities can get away with less citizens). Try to prioritize food when you can. Assuming I have enough happiness, I try to grow each city in 4 to 6 turns until at or just after plastics

- I don't see many workers in your screenshots. I try to have around 1.5 to 2 times the number of cities, getting them as early as possible. For 4 or 5 cities, 2 workers per city is a good metric in the early game. This let's you improve tiles at each city with one worker while the other worker can build roads, usually finishing roads around or just after education. More workers will also help getting up trading posts in good time for the end game. You can usually steal 2-3 workers from 1 to 2 or even 3 close by AIs, and 3 to 4 workers from a city state.

- For the turn 200+ screenshots, your science looks a bit low. For 4 to 5 cities, you usually want around 1400 to 1600+ science per turn. Do you have all your science buildings in every city? Do you have most or all specialist slot buildings in every city? Are you putting citizens in all your specialist slots after researching plastics? Building trading posts will help bring your science up as well

- Managing the AI is a big part of deity. If you find yourself getting into a lot of wars with the AI, you can try bribing them to declare war on each other. Usually you can bribe a warmongery AI to declare war on multiple people with luxuries and gpt. Then you can declare war on them to get it all back. With the AIs fighting each other, this should keep the heat off you. You might have to do this multiple times a game.

- I don't remember if you can gift a great general/admiral to a city state. If you can, then it might be beneficial to farm an AI for great generals to gift to city states for the free alliance. Someone like Venice would be good for this. You can always out produce them military wise and liberate any city states they take over with their merchants of Venice. You can also kill any additional merchants they try to send out. I'm never personally tried this but in theory it could work
 
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Nice Olle, looks like you can consistently win on deity, congrats!
Thanks :) I was happy about the 4 game streak I got, after it I played too recklessly and lost the streak, I wonder if for some things there might be a trade off between going for consistancy and going for fast SV. For example I feel like you can choose to settle agressivly and build less military to try and get faster SV, but if you get DoW at then you risk collapsing completely which means you risk loosing the game.

I started a new game and tried to grow more aggresivly but I think I made a mistake,


Spoiler Turn 55 :

t55.JPG


In the capitol I made scout, scout, scout, monument, settler, settler, settler, I stared making settlers by turn 19 and they took 10-11 turns each which means I got my 4 cities by turn 55, 5 turns later than 40-50. Perhaps I could have gotten it by turn 50 if I got a worker earlier and chopped trees instead of getting lux. I miraculasly survived the war against william by getting a peace deal like 1-2 turn my capitol was taken.


Spoiler Turn 75 gg :

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This was the turn this run was over as I lost the city to morocco. Here might be the mistake I made? Sigtuna was too aggresivly placed? I wanted to place it there because there was a salt there and I could keep happines by getting that city first. Any tips on how I could have played this differently?
 
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Yeah that's unfortunate. Sometimes early war with the AI just can't be avoided, even if you do everything right. I can give you my opinion, it may or may not have changed the outcome of the game though. But it might help with future games.

- For your immediate neighbors, trying to establish good relations early can be helpful in avoiding war. For some reason, if you declare war on your neighbor early on in the first 20 turns or so and then settle for peace after a handful of turns, the AI will sometimes ask for a declaration of friendship right after. Morocco is pretty consistent with this, Netherlands less so but he'll still do it sometimes. Once friends with an AI, you can usually keep being friends for 100+ turns if you don't make them mad. They won't go to war with you when you are friends.

- If the above doesn't work, you can always bribe another AI to go to war with Netherlands/Morocco. This might have been tough to pull off on turn 55 but should be doable at turn 75, especially if you have someone like Attila or Askia who are usually pretty cheap to bribe. On continents, this might be more difficult since you won't meet all the AIs right away (it looks like you have only met Netherlands and Morocco).

- Is Sigtuna on the salt tile? Salt is one of the best improved tiles throughout the game, it's better to work it than to settle on it. If you settled Sigtuna on the hill 1 tile north you would have the salt in the first ring and gotten a better city defense value. Sigtuna is settled pretty aggressively though, Morocco may have declared war on you for that no matter what.

- Between turns 55 and 75, your cities have grown 2 sizes and are still building granaries. Part of that is due to the wars no doubt, but even Birka is taking 14 turns to grow and Stockholm 9 turns in your second screenshot. I think more focus on growing would help your games move faster. For instance, Birka could be working the cow for 3 food, the deer for 2 (3 when granary finishes), and a farmed tile adjacent to the lake for 3 food. Stockholm could have chopped some trees to get some extra production. Early growth snowballs, that extra worker gives more food and production to grow and build faster, and gives you more science too.

- This is personal opinion and might not have been better than what you did: I usually only build 2 settlers when going tradition. A lot of times I can scrape 500 gold together to buy a settler when I'm building my first or second settler. A trick I do is declare war on my neighbor and steal a worker in the first 20 turns (on certain maps even within the first 10 turns), bring the worker back to the capital and improve a luxury, settle for peace and sell that luxury for 240 gold. You can also sell your embassy if you have writing for 35 gold, and you can trade gpt for gold when settling for peace. This helps to get 500 gold for a settler early on. The 10 extra turns to build a 3rd settler is a lot early on, like 2 city sizes and 1.5 to 2 buildings. If I can't get 500 gold and the settler takes more than 6 or so turns to build, I'll skip it and go 3 city nc, planting 1 or 2 cities when the national college finishes. Again it's just personal playstyle and might not have changed anything in your game.

- Capitol build order looks good. If I find an early culture ruin, I'll skip the monument when going tradition (you still need it for liberty). I sometimes build a shrine after the second scout if I haven't found any religious city states or faith wonders nearby and can get a good pantheon for my starting area. I might delay settlers by a turn or two if it means growing to size 4 and I have 4 hills/production tiles to work. All this is game/map dependent.

- Your map is mostly flat with a ton of forests and jungles, and trapping and sailing luxuries at your cap. That's a tough break. Unfortuantely your game might have been slow no matter what you did.
 
These are some great tips Notacop!

I had no idea about the AI might being more peaceful after war! Does this mean that it might be good to declare war on an AI even if you don't plan on stealing a worker from that AI? also, I find myself only stealing a worker from one AI with the warrior I get at the start, is it possible to steal a worker from an AI with a scout if the worker you steal is next to a city center with a warrior in it for example? at what turn should you probably not steal workers from AI anymore?

I will have these tips in my mind when starting the next new game, the peace trade trick, I'll reconsider wether a lyx is worth settling on or not, using the best growth tiles available and even consider if shrine is worth it( I have never build shrine before). Interesting that you mention liberty, is there any cenario in which you would go liberty over tradition? I just beline tradition right now with no second thought.
 
If your neighbor is a peaceful civ like Byzantium or India, then it might be worth declaring war on them and settling for peace as soon as you can (I normally just check every turn if they want peace). I don't know why it works or if you have to take their workers for it to happen, maybe someone else on here knows. If the AI will accept peace, you can steal a worker, settle for peace, and your unit and new worker will be safe. If your neighbor is a warmongery civ like Attila, Askia, Monte, etc. then probably better not to declare war if you aren't going to steal their workers or pillage their tiles.

I'll send the starting warrior out to find the closest civ(s) and try to get at least 2 workers from them. I'll use my first scout to find the other neighbor and try to steal some workers from them, it can be more difficult though since scouts are fragile. I usually only steal workers from 2 to 3 AI and 1 city state, trying to get at least 2 workers from each. I don't know how the diplomacy works for declaring war on 2 civs vs more.

Stealing workers is really all about vision and positioning, understanding what tiles the AI can see and what they can't. There's probably some good guides on this forum, YouTube, or reddit. A good civ to practice with is America, their extra sight is really helpful and makes stealing workers pretty easy. If there are a couple warriors/archers around then I just wait, even the warrior can die to the city shot and a couple warrior attacks.

On deity I typically go tradition unless I'm doing a conquest victory. Imo Liberty has better timing with lower difficulties, where tradition fits with deity timings. For instance, with Liberty you usually wait to get collective rule before starting settlers, around turn 28-35. By that time the deity AI might take your land, so the faster settler timing of tradition fits better. But it's up to personal play style. A few of the players that posted here in the earlier pages had good results with Liberty.
 
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I'll reconsider wether a lyx is worth settling on or not,
I do love settling on luxuries, but only some of them should you settle on. And definitely not salt. Calendar luxes like Wine, silk, etc are great; it turns a tile you don’t really want to work into a pretty good tile under your city. The same for camp luxes like Ivory. Mining luxes are good too, Gold, Silver. You get food plus production plus money. And if the lux is on a river even better!
 
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