Favorite new civ

[Xen]

there is many a Byzantine lover around, some dont post in this sub-fourmum any longer (aaminion), but a still a Byzant fanatic after all, look at the civ holding second place, and I'm sure some of the people whom I may have (inadvertantlly) offended voted Dutch, as they would all know that They Dutch are one of the first civs I would see dropped from the roster

 

[SuperBeaverInc.]

Originally posted by Xen
there is many a Byzantine lover around, some dont post in this sub-fourmum any longer (aaminion), but a still a Byzant fanatic after all, look at the civ holding second place, and I'm sure some of the people whom I may have (inadvertantlly) offended voted Dutch, as they would all know that They Dutch are one of the first civs I would see dropped from the roster

I discovered that if you pay to much attention to Xen, he brainwashes you with his Byzantium propoganda. Before I started paying attention to his posts I didn't really care about Byzantium. Now look, I already have them modded in my game!

 

[Xen]

just for that, i feel that a reward to the neo-Byzantines is due!

behold! the late Roman-Early Byzantine cataphract! (suitible for use by Rome,Byzantium, and Greece as a knight replacement!)

and remember we owe a big thanks to Kryten, and utahjazz for these wonderful units! (this a preliminary version it is not yet fully refined yet)

 

[SuperBeaverInc.]

That cataphract unit is great. I conquered pretty much my entire continent with them.

 

[Sarevok]

It looks very cool, is that from the beta? i was too late for the beta

 

[aaglo]

If it was from beta, do you really think xen would have posted it here...?

 

[Xen]

if it was from the beta, do you think i would have to be as vigilent as I am about the Byzantines, and the Cataphracts as I am?

like I said, we have to thank CFC forum mem bers Utahjazz, and Kryten, two of the best unit makers out there for these wonderful units (there are two versions, perhaps more, but two already is wonderful!)

 

[troytheface]

a fireship instead of galley would be a killer uu for stoping boat invasions
is the three man chariot a transport?
in otherwords u have ur 1/1/2 chariot but it also carries say like a spear or sword? That would be cool.
Mayan and Hittite UU's look like me may have a counter to the Jag rush in mp or the zulu

 

[SuperBeaverInc.]

troytheface
a fireship instead of galley would be a killer uu for stoping boat invasions

Blasphemy!

P.S. I suggest you run before Xen hunts you down

OT- 600th post [dance][dance]

 

[Louis XXIV]

My guess is the 3-Man Chariot is 2.2.2 with 30 cost.

 

[Sarevok]

I see. Xen, why do you want the dutch do be dropped anway?

 

[Xen]

@Sarevok- Th edutch just dont fit my criterai for a good civ3 civ...

@troytheface- well then, no cataphract for you...

though as the screenshot from SuperBeaverInc.s' game shows, you dont need a ship to be safe from sea conqourors

 

[Portuguese]

Why are Dutch not a Good CIV?

Real problem with the Dutch for you: You are gealous for their 1st place

 

[Sarevok]

But WHY do thew dutch dont deserve to be in?

 

[Xen]

what have the dutch done in history as to provide a pivitol role in the shapenin gof the modern world.

Byzantium saved classical culture, and prevented the easetern empire from overrunning europe for most of the middle ages- what have the dutch done that is comparable to that?

 

[Sarevok]

Youre comparing, not listing reasons, ill say it again...

WHY should the Dutch not be in C3:C?

 

[Emperor Xerxes]

Originally posted by Xen
what have the dutch done in history as to provide a pivitol role in the shapenin gof the modern world.

Byzantium saved classical culture, and prevented the easetern empire from overrunning europe for most of the middle ages- what have the dutch done that is comparable to that?

Here goes...

The Dutch had a huge empire, discovered and colonized many areas of the world, invented modern banking, were the first European power to overthough a monarchy and establish a republic, produced the first modern journal for European infantry warfare, the basis that was followed by all major Western gunpowder armies until the 1850s. It had a genuine toleraltion for many other religions, French philosopher and mathematician René Descartes and the English philosopher John Locke were able to seek refuge there and write some of thier great works.
From 1620 and 1624 the Dutch had actually created and piloted a submarine (like and underwater rowing boat), the first useful microscope was developed in the Netherlands between 1590 and 1608. Three different eyeglass makers are given credit for this invention. The inventor was probably Hans Lippershey who developed the first real telescope, or Hans Janssen and his son Zacharias. In 1608 a Dutch eyeglass maker named Hans Lippershey made the first telescope. Also, artificial heart 1957
by Willem Kolff (head of team), the compact disc 1979 by Joop Sinjou (and also some Japanese inventors), the Electro-cardiograph 1903 by Willem Einthoven and also the pendulum clock in 1656 by Christiaan Huygens. There are many more but now I am bored.

 

[Emperor Xerxes]

Originally posted by SuperBeaverInc.


INow look, I already have them modded in my game!

By the way, your cities have Byzantian by them but the word correcly should be Byzantine. E.g. Constantinople (Byzantine)
Spearman (2)

Persia declared war on us!!! etc

 

[Xen]

Originally posted by Emperor Xerxes


Here goes...

The Dutch had a huge empire, discovered and colonized many areas of the world, invented modern banking, were the first European power to overthough a monarchy and establish a republic, produced the first modern journal for European infantry warfare, the basis that was followed by all major Western gunpowder armies until the 1850s. It had a genuine toleraltion for many other religions, French philosopher and mathematician René Descartes and the English philosopher John Locke were able to seek refuge there and write some of thier great works.
From 1620 and 1624 the Dutch had actually created and piloted a submarine (like and underwater rowing boat), the first useful microscope was developed in the Netherlands between 1590 and 1608. Three different eyeglass makers are given credit for this invention. The inventor was probably Hans Lippershey who developed the first real telescope, or Hans Janssen and his son Zacharias. In 1608 a Dutch eyeglass maker named Hans Lippershey made the first telescope. Also, artificial heart 1957
by Willem Kolff (head of team), the compact disc 1979 by Joop Sinjou (and also some Japanese inventors), the Electro-cardiograph 1903 by Willem Einthoven and also the pendulum clock in 1656 by Christiaan Huygens. There are many more but now I am bored.

religious tolerance is hardley a new thing, as it dates back to ancient Persia, and was even in good use by Rome (although this was at the same time christians were persecuted, but other religions were protected by law from discrimination).

as for subs- a good forsight into the future for them, but it wasnt they who pioneered the idea.

bankning- see rennesance Italy...

warfare- up to 1850 starting from when?- it seems more likelly to be there close neighbors, the germans in whatever various name they happend to be calling themselves at the time who were the real influencers...

republics- forgetting ancient Rome and medieval Venice arnt we?


my point is, that of the civs, it is the dutch, and the sumerians who are in my opinion the "weakest link"

-bad starting positions
-bad UU choices
-not the greatest presidence for representation
-tiny periods of actually being important on the world geo-political stage

 

[jack merchant]

Originally posted by Xen

religious tolerance is hardley a new thing, as it dates back to ancient Persia, and was even in good use by Rome (although this was at the same time christians were persecuted, but other religions were protected by law from discrimination).

They were tolerantly persecuting the Christians then . Really, the idea of tolerance had vanished from Western Europe during the Middle Ages , and the Netherlands was the first place to adopt it again. Remember the Pilgrim Fathers didn't set sail from England - they set sail from the Netherlands.

Originally posted by Xen

banking- see renaissance Italy...

Not banking, but the corporation (the United East Indies Company being the first example) and the stock exchange were pioneered in the Netherlands in the early 17th century. Trade as a basis for empire was pioneered by the Dutch, and they were involved everywhere, from Baltic timber, North American furs, the African slave trade to spices from the Far East.

Originally posted by Xen

warfare- up to 1850 starting from when?- it seems more likelly to be there close neighbors, the germans in whatever various name they happend to be calling themselves at the time who were the real influencers...

Not true - Prince Maurits (reigning as Stadhouder from1585-1625) was the real influence in modernizing warfare. His manuals on standardized infantry training, artillery and (IIRC) logistics were used throughout Europe.

Originally posted by Xen

republics- forgetting ancient Rome and medieval Venice arnt we?

The influences of Rome and the Netherlands on 17th-century and later Europe were vastly different - Rome was an ancient idea, whereas the United Provinces were a reality. Fact remains that the Dutch were the first real nation to reject the notion of an absolute monarch in Europe, and not as a ciity-state either. And this can in no way be compared with the Romans ditching Tarquinius Superbus 2000 years earlier .

Originally posted by Xen

my point is, that of the civs, it is the dutch, and the sumerians who are in my opinion the "weakest link"

1) bad starting positions
2) bad UU choices
3) not the greatest presidence for representation
4) tiny periods of actually being important on the world geo-political stage

1) I doubt the majority of people plays only on world maps
2) Well, not as bad as Byzantium .
3)
4) Arguably 2 centuries at least - similar to the Vikings. And what an influence !

Anyway, should you ever get bored with Byzantine history, may I recommend The Dutch Republic: Its Rise, Greatness, and Fall 1477-1806 by Jonathan Israel ? It's always helpful to have more of an idea what you're talking about when you're slagging off something .