Favorite new civ

What do you think be your favorite new civ?

  • Byzantium

    Votes: 36 22.6%
  • Maya

    Votes: 16 10.1%
  • Netherlands

    Votes: 52 32.7%
  • Inca

    Votes: 21 13.2%
  • Hittite

    Votes: 9 5.7%
  • Sumeria

    Votes: 9 5.7%
  • Portugal

    Votes: 16 10.1%

  • Total voters
    159
The question is not whether Byzantium had an influence on western Civ, but who it influenced, in what way and how lasting was that influence. And when compared to other influences how does it stack up.

I am not prepared to write a treatise on the Byzantine Empire and its cultural legacy. But here is my short version.

For about 1000 years (450 AD to 1450 AD) Byzantium was the prime respository of "Roman heritage", but it was static. Little was done to disseminate this knowledge or spread the culture beyond the borders of the Empire in an organized (warlike or other wise) fashion. Western Europe had access to Byzantine "wisdom" but but if it was adopted to any significant degree that is not evident or well known.

By the 14th Century Europe was better prepared to utilize an influx of alternative thinking. So when Constantinopel fell and people fled west, fertile ground was waiting. Perhaps the credit for spreading the greco-roman culture to Europe should go the Arabs. The Byzantines had 1000 years to sell their culture to Europe and did not do so.

Be careful about attributing wesrtern scientific inquiry to Byzantium. The Arab influence was huge and is largely unappreciated. Check out the names of the most visible and noted stars. They are arabic.

If you feel that all of western civ is dependent upon our rediscovery of greco-roman knowledge and culture, then you have relegated the Byzantines to the roll of a conduit. The picture is far more complicated than you will allow. The western world was a slow motion turmoil of change and conflict from 1000 to 1550 AD. The Byzantines were just one part of all that. Here is a short list: plague, Islam, crusades, the golden Horde, ocean exploration, printing, gunpowder, mercantilism, the new world, a flood of gold! Add your own.
 
I just want to point out again, with the traits publically available, that Byzantium is by far my favorite Civ (with only the Vikings and Dutch somewhere near).

And I also want to point out, that I 100% agree with Birdjaguar about the incredibly tedious debatte over the historical impact of Byzanium, that seems to threadjack nearly every topic right now. Could we please all agree with Birdjaguar's points:

- Byzantium was very important.
- The largest impact on Western, Central and Eastern Europe was caused by its fall.
- Southern Europe/ Balkan was under Byzantium influence, but this was wipped out/ superseeded by the Ottoman occupation.

...end end this discussion? PLEASE??
 
I would think The Netherlands.....

Ok ok.... i'm dutch..lol

Still wondering how such a small country could have such a
worldwide impact (Indonesia, South Africa, Suriname, Antilles, New Amsterdam... nowadays known as New York) VOC trading company...

Still surpised that celts which seem to have both english and french cities and influences were chosen in last issue of PTW...

Care all, play well, Jan ;)
 
Do we know if any traits of old civs have been reassigned? And are there any new Religious/Industrious civs?
 
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