FE - Food Economy (Difference to SE & CE)

[Unconquered Sun]

Don't see how an earlier poster's claim that one can routinely get c.10/route is supposed to work.

CK

They aren't.

The main factor behind route income is the base value, determined by the size of foreign cities (though capped by distance), so you have no power over it.

Snaaty's trade economy was great for Warlords Deity because Warlords AI favored big cities and deity bonuses made growing them easy for the AI.

BtS AI favored city size is about 10 pop less and monarch bonuses aren't close to deity. It won't work for you.

 

[Unconquered Sun]

You probably were looking at the Civ building infos instead of the BtS building infos. Look in the other directory.

Anyway, maybe with Customs in all your cities on a huge multicontient map. If your routes were 3-5 (or higher), then +100% would be 6-10 (or higher).

Wodan

Unfortunately, no.

Custom houses add just one more % bonus to a long list, that includes:

peace with foreign civ = 150%
oversea trade = 100%
harbor = 50%
connection to capital = 25%
pop bonus = 5% for every point above 10 in your city
base 100% (obviously)

So, custom houses are kind of weak, unless you happen to have a route to a very large foreign city, not likely in BtS.

Here's a game example of tons of % bonuses piled in BtS for mediocre return.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Krikkitone's article explains how trade route income is calculated, but not how the game determines which trade routes you get.

I asked in Krikkitone's thread a long time ago if he could explain the mechanic of how the game determines where the trade routes go. He has never replied and I somehow doubt he will.

I have poked around in there, but haven't gotten back to my article

Basically, it goes through all of your cities in order of their basic Trade route modifier (High population cities with Harbors and ToA go first)

and then for each City it gives it the trade route cities that will give it the best profit (commerce value)

The player gets no more than one trade route with each foreign city.

Pop 6 and Markets shouldn't figure in at all. (for trade routes)

 

[molson]

What the...? I have to try this one myself, I can't believe you're researching Assembly Line in 1150AD. Way to go!

he is playing on a low level...thats why.

 

[Xesorla]

he is playing on a low level...thats why.

No.

"About this game:

It´s a deity game I´m just playing... ..."

 

[iamnleth]

he is playing on a low level...thats why.

I laugh at this the thought of Snaaty playing settler.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It IS pretty funny. I doubt the FE would work on low difficulties actually. Since it relies very heavily on the AI having strong cities for the trade routes, playing on some difficulty where the AI cities tend to be garbage would be counterproductive. Although, on settler you could probably win regardless...

 

[Wodan]

Unfortunately, no.

Oh, I see. My numbers were wrong. I think the point is still valid, though.

Here's a game example of tons of % bonuses piled in BtS for mediocre return.

I don't think that's "mediocre". He has 8/route and 5-6 routes (hard to tell because it scrolls) which is 40-48 commerce, which is going 100% into reasearch and will be modified by the library/univ/observatory for total research of about 150/turn just from trade routes. That's nothing to sneeze at, particularly since that city is a production city, if you ignore the trade routes. Heck, it's been used to churn out wonders.

Wodan

 

[UncleJJ]

I think what Unconquered Sun's example shows is the weakness of the Temple of Artemis, as far as trade route bonus is concerned in BtS. It used to be a very powerful boost to trade in Warlords and aelf had a game based around it. That 100% bonus seems weak compared to other bonusses like 100% for overseas trade, 100% for foreign trade (custom house is that?), and 150% for sustained peace. So I guess it would only reduce the income from trade routes in that example by 1 or 2 commerce if the Temple of Artemis wasn't present. Of course it still provides a good source of GPPs with its free priest and that is good reason to build it anyway.

 

[Wodan]

Don't overlook that ToA is available early, when those other bonuses aren't available or if available are much weaker. Sure, over time, ToA's value becomes weaker. Heck, the "free priest" becomes a weaker benefit as well, relative to the city as well as your empire as a whole. Over time, both the city and your empire become much bigger. What was once a 5-10% boost is now 1% or less.

Also, in addition to getting them early (when their benefit is more), you get both those things (plus GPP) over a longer span of the game.

Wodan

 

[UncleJJ]

True, but it still only adds about 1 commerce per trade route in the early game. Is it worth building an expensive wonder just for a little commerce?

My point was that ToA has been significantly weakened in BtS such that it is no longer a powerful strategy to combine it with the Great Lighthouse as it was in aelf's game. The effectiveness of trade is now dependent on several other factors in all cities and the income from trade has been adjusted to take account of that. ToA has suffered from that change in the way trade income is calculated. I suspect that its trade bonus would need to be +300% for it to recover the effect it had in Warlords. I am just bewailing the fact that we've lost one of the old trade strategies

 

[Unconquered Sun]

I don't think that's "mediocre". He has 8/route and 5-6 routes (hard to tell because it scrolls) which is 40-48 commerce, which is going 100% into reasearch and will be modified by the library/univ/observatory for total research of about 150/turn just from trade routes. That's nothing to sneeze at, particularly since that city is a production city, if you ignore the trade routes. Heck, it's been used to churn out wonders.

Wodan

Still, compare my BtS screen with the OP screen.

BtS: pop 12 capital with ToA and custom house having the highest base value routes possible: 8 commerce routes.

Warlords: pop 9 completely random&average city in Snaaty's empire, has only a harbor, obviously it doesn't get the highest value routes and yet: two routes of 9 commerce and two routes of 8 commerce.

That's nerfing.

 

[oyzar]

Is not that because the cities snaaty is trading with are way larger?

 

[Wodan]

True, but it still only adds about 1 commerce per trade route in the early game. Is it worth building an expensive wonder just for a little commerce?

My point was that ToA has been significantly weakened in BtS such that it is no longer a powerful strategy to combine it with the Great Lighthouse as it was in aelf's game. The effectiveness of trade is now dependent on several other factors in all cities and the income from trade has been adjusted to take account of that. ToA has suffered from that change in the way trade income is calculated. I suspect that its trade bonus would need to be +300% for it to recover the effect it had in Warlords. I am just bewailing the fact that we've lost one of the old trade strategies

Yeah, I agree with all that. Well except not "lost" but certainly weakened.

You'd think they would have re-evaluated such things as wonder bonuses when they change the formula for the underlying feature.

Wodan