[Feature] Additional Wonders
- Thread starter Leoreth
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Glorfindel of Gondolin
Chieftain
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Glorfindel of Gondolin
Chieftain
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Love that comics
Do we have any wonders representing Bangkok? It’s consistently one of the most visited cities in the world. Same goes for Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur, and Macau.
I wonder if a Disney wonder would make sense. The Disney parks are major draws in Paris, Anaheim, Orlando, Tokyo, Shanghai, and Hong Kong. In the case of Orlando and Anaheim, they are *the* defining attraction of some of the world’s most visited cities.
Disneyland could be a Consumerism wonder. It could be fun to reference the “happiest place on earth branding” by making it provide trade routes based on happiness. Maybe +1 trade route for every 10 happiness in the city? Could use balancing, I’m sure.
Also, do we have any wonders representing the Caribbean?
I wonder if a Disney wonder would make sense. The Disney parks are major draws in Paris, Anaheim, Orlando, Tokyo, Shanghai, and Hong Kong. In the case of Orlando and Anaheim, they are *the* defining attraction of some of the world’s most visited cities.
Disneyland could be a Consumerism wonder. It could be fun to reference the “happiest place on earth branding” by making it provide trade routes based on happiness. Maybe +1 trade route for every 10 happiness in the city? Could use balancing, I’m sure.
Also, do we have any wonders representing the Caribbean?
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
manio curio
Warlord
I think wonders should be chosen because of their overall cultural and historical significance, not because of a representation quota. To say 'let's choose this wonder to represent these people or that city' is in my opinion wrong.
I hear you and I agree to some extent. But I do think that we walk the line between trying to create the most historically accurate game and trying to create interesting and balanced gameplay. I think Silver Tree Fountain is a good example of this. It’s not a very famous or important wonder (relative to the Louvre, Angkor Wat, Himeji Castle, the Pyramids). It doesn’t even have its own Wikipedia page. But it adds dimension to the Mongols as a civ in a historically accurate way.
manio curio
Warlord
The choice of what constitute a great wonder will always be subjective, I am more concerned about the rationale behind the choice, saying 'a wonder that represents these people of this city' removes historicity but also attacks meritocracy.
I know nothing about the silver tree fountain and if you think it doesn't deserve it because of objective lack of historical gravitas, then you should suggest its removal. If your goal is to add more interest to the gameplay, perhaps removing some of the restrictions on wonders building may be the way to go.
For example we can argue wonders such as theodosian walls don't necessarily need orthodoxy as state religion since they are a 'military' wonder. While for others like the Sistine chapel makes sense to have a religious requirement. Similar rationale for the great lighthouse or anything else that wasn't too openly celebrating pagan gods, it may be fine to build it while having Christianity as religion.
Dracosolon
Emperor
That could work, or maybe a more generic National Wonder having to do with tourism (besides the National Park). In general I feel like tourism could represent a more important part of the economy in the late game, besides the Hotel building.
Imagine my surprise when I read that the Guadalupe Basilica isn't actually from Guadeloupe...
"Meritocracy" is a strange word in this context. There's no point in having wonders everywhere but the game already has an approach of giving some attention to lesser known civs, adding more obscure wonders from areas of the world that don't already have one goes well with that philosophy. Plus, appropriate wonders are a good way to enrich the gameplay of civs that don't get the chance to build all the others. Granted, for the specific case of the Caribbean this is less of a problem since they're gonna be mostly controlled by European civs that have their fill of wonders, but the overall point remains.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
In my head Disney Land is absolutely a National Wonder with a limit of 1 per civ and 5 world wide.
1SDANi
The Fading Memory
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Or we can name it after Sid Meier, Sidney Land
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
I like the idea of a global limit on (some) national wonders. It could also be a world wonder with a corporation aspect.
Krieger-FS
Warlord
Taking opportunity of the recent comments about wonders, I've updated Steb's wonder spreadsheet with three possible Nubian wonders: Jebel Barkal (known to the Ancient Egyptians as the 'Throne of Two Lands' or 'Pure Mountain'), the Cruciform Church (possibly called Church of the Great Jesus), and the Throne Hall. AFAIK, only Jebel Barkal has an available asset, which was created very recently (including a wonder movie!), but both the Throne Hall and the Cruciform Church could be very interesting options to represent the unique Nubian medieval architecture and may be relatively easy to create.
1SDANi
The Fading Memory
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Could make Sidney Land a National Wonder that gives a flat bonus and Sidney World a World Wonder with Shrine-like scaling based on how many Sidney Lands are in the world.
IMO two Disney Wonders is too much, but the idea of a Wonder that benefits from a National was too cool not to mention
IMO two Disney Wonders is too much, but the idea of a Wonder that benefits from a National was too cool not to mention
Krieger-FS
Warlord
The recent discussion about a wonder for Argentina got me thinking again about this issue. I believe the most obvious candidate is the Floralis Genérica (since we already have an asset for it and a few proposals to add it). However, after revisiting old ideas and doing a bit of research, I started thinking about other possible candidates - but all basically pending a generous soul willing to do an asset. In a pseudo-chronological order:
But back to the topic: of all the Argentine wonders mentioned, I’m personally most fond of MALBA - much more for its art collection, which is relatively small but probably the best existent for Latin American modern art. Additionally, there aren’t many modern museums on the wonder list, and I’ll add it to Steb’s spreadsheet (which already includes the Floralis Genérica). And of course, I would really love hearing other opinions, especially from our Argentine players.
- Plaza de Mayo (one of the most recognized places in Buenos Aires, though essentially a city square)
- Palacio Barolo, Tigre Club, and Torre Monumental/Torre de los Ingleses (luxurious early 20th-century buildings/monument from Argentina’s golden age)
- Obelisco/Avenida 9 de Julio and the Kavanagh Building (the first may be too similar to other modern Obelisks, and the last is another example of Art Deco/Rationalist skyscreapers)
- National Flag Memorial (very thematic to use the Silver Fountain current effect)
- Banco de Londres y América del Sur Headquarters and the Argentine National Library (well-known brutalist buildings and I don't recall having any wonder associated with this style)
- MALBA
But back to the topic: of all the Argentine wonders mentioned, I’m personally most fond of MALBA - much more for its art collection, which is relatively small but probably the best existent for Latin American modern art. Additionally, there aren’t many modern museums on the wonder list, and I’ll add it to Steb’s spreadsheet (which already includes the Floralis Genérica). And of course, I would really love hearing other opinions, especially from our Argentine players.
Temujin8k
Fluyts, Grand Vizier of Your Mind
It's great seeing Floralis Generica finally getting added (and finally, an Argentine wonder). However, wouldn't it be too late to make an impact on Argentina's UHV gameplay?
I don't think that every wonder needs to be applicable to a UHV.
Slightly off topic, but I'm also curious about your philosophy on how relevant UPs and UBs (and IMO to a much lesser extent, UUs) should be to a UHVs. In some cases they are mandatory or highly relevant (e.g. Polynesia, Persia, Italy), and in other cases they're just flavor (Holy Rome). When designing UBs and UPs, how much do you consider their impact and/or benefit for UHVs?
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