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Featured Game #4 Spoiler thread 2 - Endgame

Discussion in 'Strategy Forum' started by Thalassicus, May 27, 2012.

  1. Thalassicus

    Thalassicus Bytes and Nibblers

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    11,057
    Location:
    Texas
    Click Here to begin VEM Featured Game #4. As fair respect for your fellow competitors, do not read Spoilers before starting the game. This thread is to discuss the endgame during or after the Renaissance era. (Visit Spoiler Thread #1 for early game pre-Renaissance discussions.)

    What are your thoughts on strategies you pursued, how gameplay evolved, and so on?

    When you complete the game, please post:

    • Hall of Fame score.
    • End date.
    • Victory type (if you won).
    • Attach a savegame of the moment just after the game ends.
    High scores for each victory type will be announced on the website, civmodding.wordpress.com.
     
  2. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    8,263
    Location:
    Venice, California
    After the initial Persian onslaught, most of my Medieval war against Persia and Egypt was fought in the lands of my Viennese and Almaty allies. This was part of my overall plan to not expand beyond the natural borders created by these two CS and the mountains between them. I took care of Egypt first, prolonging the war until Germany entered it as well, then burning two cities and selling two to Germany before making peace. I fought Persia with siege-ready frigates and SOTL’s, eventually retaking Vienna, then Pasargadae and the capital before making peace. (I sold these to Rome.)

    At this point Rome and Germany were the two big powers – and stayed that way to the end. Siam had four policy trees completed, so I kept an eye on them, ready to declare war if they hit five. (They never did.) Arabia was an also-ran, and along with Germany and Siam, my ally. I focused on science (paid for with gold) while expanding from my five continental cities to the four ocean pearl locations to the east, giving me a total of nine cities (sizes 13-20) before my last-minute expansion.

    Further on AI performance:

    By the end Rome was -24 unhappy and Germany -35, pretty much because I served them up Egyptian and Saimaese cities to buy or take. They also had empty treasuries, but had a positive gpt even at the end.

    The biggest addressable hindrance to AI competitiveness is still science output. This was not my best science game, but even with my scientist slots empty, I finished with over 2300bpt. Siam had just over 1000 (probably higher before I took a couple of their cities), and then came Germany (812), Rome (512) both based on sheer pop. I don't expect the AI to match my performance, but this seems like too wide a gap. I think we need a radical boost in AI science, starting in the Renaissance and then scaling up.

    My goal was to gain a UN victory, only because I wanted it to feel right with my gold focus. As I neared the end I declared war on Egypt to build a stockpile of gold, then made peace just as I finished the UN building. Somehow peace turned all my former enemy CS (about 4-5) into allies, so that I had a clean sweep. (Unless I missed some in-game effect that could cause this, it’s a bug, like the other CS bug I posted.) I then declared war on Siam to prevent it from competing for CS, even though I had over 20K and 1200gpt. I won on t319 with a HOF score of 2373.

    I enjoyed taking a different approach: fast expansion, slow development of science buildings, gold-infused infrastructure growth, and fighting with the too-easy longbows. I didn’t vary my strategy because I was curious as to what would happen if I stuck with it. Policies were Liberty, Patronage, up to the GM in Commerce, then Enlightenment, along with a couple random others. I was ahead in science pretty much from the Medieval era on, and it was all downhill from there.

    The civs and the map itself were terrific, with a great balance of approaches, the sort of geography-is-destiny that I enjoy, and a surprising two-separated-continents world.

    What I enjoyed less and less was the naval game. Given the near-total AI incompetence, it’s a joke. I still don’t understand why VEM has nerfed ranged units but not the siege factor for ships, given that it’s a virtual game-over button you can press over and over. Given the expected improvement in AI naval performance in G&K, it may not be worth adjusting the siege numbers for 3 weeks. But if this were going to be balanced, I would say that the siege promotion should be eliminated altogether for ships.
     
  3. Gamewizard

    Gamewizard Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,234
    Science Victory - Turn 287
    In Game Score - 2249
    HOF Score - just shy of 4000 (can't remember exactly)

    Finally! That took longer than I would have liked, but the end game slowed down for me considerably. I should have enabled quick combat sooner, lesson learned. I need to find a solution to cooling my CPU, which I think is a problem here. It hits over 60 degrees Celsius during the end, which I think keeps it from running properly during AI turns...anyone with more expertise than me is welcome to give some input on this.

    Anyways...everything was going smooth, I was friendly with everyone except Bismark, so RAs were keeping me ahead in science. Persia's raw science was impressive, over 2000 science per turn during the Industrial era. But I ended up getting cute and took Stockholm. Persia and Egypt immediately declare war, Siam denounces me (a RA with Egypt was 1 turn away from completion! Doh!). I have to stop my research focus to pump out units. Persia keeps sending Airborne units, about 4 at a time. These are more of a nuisance than a threat though, since they have no offensive backup in Infantry or Artillery. I used a Great Artist here to turn my 2 tile radius buffer into a 4 tile radius buffer. Once the Airborne units stopped coming I pushed forward and took 3 Persian cities, one being the capital. The turn I took his capital he had finished the Manhattan Project, so major crisis averted. He gave my 150 gold per turn after this as a congratulations. During all that, Egypt was busy sending Knights at me 2 at a time. Rocket Artillery > Knights...who knew?!?

    I hit the future era with 4500 beakers per turn, 1700 gold per turn, 5 1/2 policy trees completed, and 60 happiness. A couple saved Great Scientists turned the last 2 techs into 5 turn techs. I am unsure how much quicker I could have won if I just stayed peaceful and used all those RAs, since before the wars I was at about 2000 bpt.

    Random Notes:
    - VEM turns island cities into super cities, especially after Research Labs. Just plop em down, buy as many food buildings as you can and watch em explode! I think this is why Persia did the best out of all the AIs, since they had many of them entering the Industrial era.
    - English battleships with 4 range just became my favorite unit in the game.
    - Village improvement spam is the name of the game...only the capital got a handful of mines and farms.
    - Great Artist culture bomb was very strong this game once I built 3 cities in the jungle highlands to the north. I was able to steal 3 luxuries and many valuable riverside tiles, and I already mentioned how helpful it was during defense.
    - The war vs Persia could have been way more challenging had he built something other than Airborne units, especially some anti-air. Although he probably wouldn't have used those correctly anyways.
    - Bug: Bomber promotions vs vanguard didn't seem to work (airborne are vanguard correct?)

    Overall a great game! Thanks Thal!

    View attachment VEM Featured 4 - Elizabeth287.Civ5Save
     
  4. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

    Joined:
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    That's a fantastic finish.

    Are you saying that at that point Persia was producing more bpt than you?

    I have begun building island cities late game for this reason. The AI already built them, but now greatly benefits from them.

    "Spam" is a good word for it, and I still think this major change has tilted VE in a more one-dimensional direction. Gold + science = no brainer.

    Question: how many cities did you have, and how big were they at the end?
     
  5. Gamewizard

    Gamewizard Emperor

    Joined:
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    1,234
    Before Persia and I went to war at the end of the Industrial/entering Modern he was ahead in beakers per turn, according to infoaddict. Although I found it slightly misleading because infoaddict wasn't taking the RA science earned per turn into calculation for me, just my city output, so I assume the same is true for infoaddict's calculation of AI beakers per turn. According to infoaddict, Persia had ~2000 bpt, me with ~1800 bpt, and next was Egypt with ~800 bpt.

    Before Scientific Theory I had 2 cities, the capital and York (near Krakatoa). I dropped this city when the capital was already size 20, and York quickly grew and ended up with more pop than the capital (when every tile it works is atleast 3 food I guess that is what happens). Right before Scientific Theory I popped settlers out of the capital at a rate of 1 per turn for about 7 straight turns. 3 of them went into the jungles to the northeast of the capital, the rest out into the ocean for those island cities. I then conquered Stockholm, Vienna (I think, the one north of the capital), and 3 Persian cities. So I think I ended with 14 cities, which actually put me in last for # of cities (Alexander was wiped out). The capital and York were about size 35, the others all around size 20. I ended with 60 happiness so I could have easily assimilated more Persian cities but I just wanted to end the game at that point.
     
  6. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

    Joined:
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    So you basically played with one city for about half the game? I was amazed that you built the SS so quickly, and am even more so now. However, I tend to grow my cities much more slowly. I wonder if that alone could be responsible for such a gap. I haven't finished in under 300 turns with the recent versions of VEM.
     

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