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Feedback and suggestions on UI

Discussion in 'Gedemon's Civilization, a total overhaul project' started by Knasp, Nov 14, 2018.

  1. Knasp

    Knasp Chieftain

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    Moderator Action: This post and a few below were moved/copied from this thread to create this one (Gedemon)

    You're completely right, my bad. What I mean is rather the base resources, like Wood and Stone, being converted to other things rather than what is needed for Construction (usually Materiel). In screenshot below, Baghdad produces Wooden clubs and Timber amongst other things, while efficiency of Builder production is low.

    Spoiler Screenshot :

    • Another thing I've noticed just now is that Builders and Settlers keep appearing on and disappearing from the list of production choices. Some turns I can see them and pick them in the list, other times they are completely missing. In the screenshot game above, where I started with a Carpenter, Builders appeared early. But in another game where I started with a Stonemason instead, the Builder and Settler rarely appeared in my list.
    • When I'm producing buildings, and other units, the "Resources required per construction turn" stays the same, regardless of efficiency. But when I'm producing Builders, the Materiel required per turn fluctuates every turn. Is it supposed to work like that?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2018
  2. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    Most buildings that convert a resource use a base common amount for multiple production. IE a Stonemason use X stones to build Y materiel and Z stone-tipped spears, if you don't need spears it will still use the X stones to build Y materiel, that's done to prevent a resource to always be used for one thing and not the others in a building. When multiple buildings require the same resources, its shared between them based on their respective demand (if building A is requesting 100 stones for its production will B requires only 50, A will get more Stones than B if you have less than 150 stones available. for example if you have 100 stones, A should get 66 stones and B should get 33 stones)

    IIRC units for which you don't have enough resource to a few turns of production are not shown, I do plan to make them visible like the units you have the tech for but miss a requirement to build in the base game.

    I don't know for builders, I think the amount should vary for each production you don't have enough resources for. Analyzing the logs would be required, I'll try to make the debug output for the capital shown each turn in a future release, as any of you can help searching for inconsistency in the resource usage from that.
     
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  3. Knasp

    Knasp Chieftain

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    Fair enough, it seems to work as intended. I guess it just takes some time for a newbie to figure out where the resources are going :p
    I love the new icons under the city banners btw!

    On the resource tooltips it lists the Stock, but it would be useful to also display how much of each resource that was produced by the City last turn. (Meaning the total production value, that can be viewed in the Detailed resource tab).
    For e.g. currently it says:
    • :hammers: Materiel 18/180 (arrow) -2 (0.48 :c5gold: -0.02)
    I'd prefer if the current City output was listed as well, like:
    • :hammers: Materiel 18/180 (arrow) -2 (0.48 :c5gold: -0.02) City production: +12
    OR​
    • :hammers: Materiel [+12/turn] Stock: 18/180 (arrow) -2 (0.48 :c5gold: -0.02)
    Hmmm. I think you need to be able to select Units for which resources aren't currently available, except of course Units that require resources that aren't produced at all or in stock. Of course, you can't have all the units in the game in the list all the time, but it's annoying when Settlers and Builders that you've already started on disappear, until you choose to build something that requires less Materiel.

    See screenshots below, where I've been producing a Settler for a few turns. Then I switch to Peltast and the Settler disappears for 1 turn. And Builder only becomes available after building the Peltast for 2 turns, which I guess is due to enough Materiel being stocked again.

    Spoiler Screens :

     
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  4. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    It's not easy for the units selection on production screen, I remember struggling with that. But yeah it's needed, somewhere in the to do list...

    I don't want to make the tooltip overcharged, IMO its already is.

    But I maybe able to switch display on mouse click between simple/detailed text.

    How's that ?
    Clipboard-6.jpg Clipboard-7.jpg

    Edit: better ?
    Clipboard-8.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
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  5. Knasp

    Knasp Chieftain

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    I understand, but I think that production per turn is important enough to always be displayed. But it depends on if it remembers your preference. I mean, do you have to click to switch to detailed view every time? Without memory, then I'd prefer it to be displayed always.

    Yes, I like it better with the "+" in front but I also think it would be even more (newbie) user friendly if you add "/turn" after the number. Having an icon for the source of the resource is a nice touch. It might be misleading if the value includes imports, but otherwise I'm all for it.

    The only thing I'd change is to keep the name of the resource next to the icon, furthest to the left.

    Also, it would be better to keep the stock values together with the arrow-icon and the value of change. Having them separated is confusing.

    Something like:

    [Icon] & [Resource name] & " - (" & [Source icon] & Production per turn] & ") - (" & [Stock numbers] & [Arrow icon] & [Change value] & ") - (" & [Economic stuff] & ")"

    If the mod remembers your preference for Detailed view, then you could probably remove [Resource name] from the simple view. But then Detailed view needs to be default.

    Those are my preferences, idk about other players.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
  6. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    The way we're going to have the information presented in the various tooltips is something we need to think about.

    Not just for the resources stock, but for the other tooltips on the City Banner.

    Because we'll need a lot of easily accessible data (population needs, population composition, stability/unrest, etc...) and I can't add too many icons below the city name.

    I think I will code something to allows multiple "tabs" (for example "Stock&Prices", "Production&Consumption", "Import&Export") and multiple display option (for example "condensed","normal","detailed") in each tooltip

    I'll have to do some tests to see if it's possible, but switching between tabs/display would be done on mouse click (left or right, maybe scroll button ?), the last mode/tab selected would be remembered during a session, but can't be saved between sessions (ie after quitting/restarting or reloading)

    Including a legend at the top of the tooltip depending on the mode selected is something I plan to add.
     
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  7. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    A mock up of the tooltip, note that the "selected" [tab] and [display type] are not corresponding to the legend and resource list, it's just a first display test:

    Clipboard-9.jpg
     
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  8. Knasp

    Knasp Chieftain

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    Looks promising!
    I started a new game this morning and found the current tooltips helpful. Well done! Overall I'm really enjoying all the new mechanics in the mod.

    Some issues and suggestions regarding the UI:
    • I don't know which included UI mod that shows "worked" tiles when you mouse-over the City banner, but it seems to disrupt/cancel choosing tiles to work. When it does, I have to select a unit, then the city again, and click the Citizen icon again in order to assign Citizens. All the while avoiding to mouse-over the City banner.
    • Food tab: Maybe it could show City production/import/export of Food, as well as consumption?
    • When units are standing on the same tile as the City their icon usually covers the smaller icons. Is it possible to change the order of those small icons, to always be on top?
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
  9. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    Thanks, next release should fix the "move over banner bug" when you're in city management or trade route selection interface modes.

    I'll try to move down units flags in cities, because I've no idea on how to change display layers, and if I did, then I'm afraid the unit couldn't be selected..

    Food will be displayed with the other resources again when I'll finish the new custom tooltip

    For the Tooltip, I've started one from scratch (using the plot ToolTip as a template), because I've failed to change the style of the default Tooltip, and the plot tooltip is using an independant code...

    Lost some time trying to make a table in it, but finally managed to change the font when I realized that the <Style> tag in UI XML files wasn't always referring to a StyleSheet defining the FontType (in Civ6_Styles.xml and not modifiable from a Mod AFAIK), but could also refer directly to a FontType (defined in Civ6_FontStyles_EFIGS.xml and not modifiable too, even if I can access the database entry referencing it) that wasn't used anywhere else in the game but is a Monospaced font.

    Meaning we can do a kind of table, old style:
    Clipboard-10.jpg
     
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  10. Knasp

    Knasp Chieftain

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    Now I've tried the latest version, for a quick test. You asked for feedback regarding the UI and I'd suggest changing the Icons for the Research fields.

    1. I would prefer to have simpler and clearer icons, similar to how the resources have a distinct background colour to separate the different classes (luxury = purple, bonus = yellow, strategic = red) and you have the distinct colours for all the different districts and city-state types (campus = blue, encampment = red, theater square = bright purple etc). The same logic could be applied for research fields. I think using colours and simpler icons will help the player/user a lot. The Unit icons, white silhouette symbols are good, but could be improved by a dark border, or dark background. Black on white works fine for e.g.

    Attached are some examples of how you could use colours and icons to bring greater clarity, in my opinion.

    2. I also have a suggestion when it comes to the resources listed in your cities, the screenshot in your post above is a good example of such a list. I belive increasing the size of the icons would be the best improvement. Because it's difficult to distinguish between the icons when they're so tiny. I know increasing the icon sizes will require more space for the tooltip windows, but I think it's worth it.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
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  11. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    I'd like to keep the blue for "research", so either variant 4 or a fifth with blue icons and changing background.

    About those icons, they are "FontIcons", IIRC the actual size is 16 pixels or 18 pixels, the max size is 20 pixels

    See GCO_FontIcons.dds in the mod's folder, you can edit it with paint.net

    And I do agree that we need cleaner icons, with a consistant color code (not sure we should define that while the list of different type of resources is still a W.I.P.), which means someone actually good at making them (ie not me)
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
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  12. Knasp

    Knasp Chieftain

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    Something like this (variant 5):
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019

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