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Feedback: Buildings and Wonders

Discussion in '[MAC+WIN] Civ4 - History Rewritten' started by Xyth, Jul 16, 2011.

  1. Azoth

    Azoth Inscrutable

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    INDUSTRIAL

    Broadcast Tower (220h / Radio): +25% culture, -25% war weariness, allows 2 artists, +1 happiness from Hit Singles
    Bunker (240h / Explosives): +4XP for Armoured units, +25% espionage, +50% defense against espionage, requires Barracks
    Cinema (160h / Film): +1 culture, +1 happiness, +1 happiness per 20% culture rate, +1 happiness from Hit Movies, requires Theatre
    Coal Plant (200h / Steam Power): provides dirty power with Coal, +2 unhealthiness
    Factory (250h / Machine Tools): +25% production, +50% production with power, allows 2 engineers, +3 unhealthiness
    Gas Plant (250h / Pneumatics): provides dirty power with Gas
    Laboratory (300h / Electricity): +25% research, allows 1 scientist, +50% spaceship production, +1 unhealthiness, requires Observatory
    News Press (280h / Journalism): +3 espionage, +25% GPP, +1 free specialist, requires Post Office
    Supermarket (260h / Plastics): +2 food, +25% wealth, +1 health from Cattle/Pig/Sheep, allows 1 merchant, requires Grocer


    MODERN

    Airport (320h / Aviation): airlift 1 unit per turn, +4 air unit capacity, +4XP for Air/Helicopter units, +1 trade route, +1 unhealthiness
    Bomb Shelter (100h / Atomic Physics): -50% damage from air units, -50% damage from nukes
    Hydro Plant (300h / Electronics): provides clean power, requires river
    Nuclear Plant (300h / Fission): provides clean power with Uranium, +2 unhappiness
    Public Transport (280h / Combustion): no unhealthiness from Village/Town, double production speed with Rubber
    Recycling Centre (300h / Composites): no unhealthiness from Mine/Workshop, double production speed with Aluminum
    Solar Plant (350h / Laser): provides clean power, maximum latitude 45°


    COMMENTS
    • I'm not sure Fallout Shelters will see any use if they cost 250h and only defend against nukes. What's the chance of the AI getting to nukes before they're banned by the UN, and using them against any particular city? Not very high. You're better off investing in military or espionage to deny your enemies Uranium, or pursuing an actual victory condition. A cheaper Bomb Shelter that also defends against aerial bombardment is a more worthwhile build. That also leaves XP for Armoured units to the Bunker.
    • Broadcast Towers were a bit sad without a culture bonus, so I shifted it over from the Cinema, and replaced it with some base culture and happiness.
    • The News Press and Garden pick up GPP bonuses. Together with the School and Civic Square, that brings the total to +100%.
    • I'm not a fan of the nuclear meltdown mechanic, so I'd prefer to replace it with a flat happiness penalty. +2 seems about right, but it could go higher.
    • Recycling Centres now eliminate unhealthiness from Mines and Workshops and both Recycling Centres and Public Transports get resource doublers. Wells retain a health penalty throughout.


    Separately, I've always felt we need to do more with UWs. Those fifty-odd Wonders see very little play in the average game. And there are balance issues: an Academy UW is a much easier target than a Military Academy UW. Ideally, UWs would have unique bonuses, and all players would be able to build UWs of civilizations not present in the game. (In a game without France, for instance, any player could build the Louvre in place of the National Gallery.) But I'm not sure if that's possible.

    In the short term, changing "launches Golden Age" to +50% (or even +25%) Golden Age length might be good for balance.
     
  2. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    The Candi, like the Ziggurat and others, suffers from being a religious structures with no religious buildings available it could replace. The Cemetery solved this problem in the Ancient era, but I often wonder if there shouldn't be another vaguely religious building available in the Medieval era that isn't tied directly to the religion system. No ideas at this stage what it could be or what it could do though, just a thought.

    Alternatively, there was a thread somewhere (that I can't find atm, annoyingly) where an Indonesian member of CFC suggested the Pendopo for the Indonesian UB. It's similar in concept to the Chinese Pavilion but he had a good writeup of it's cultural and social significance. If I could find suitable art I reckon it could be a Civic Square replacement.

    The Salon is a tricky one to fit, but the Post Office is absolutely a better choice than the Observatory. My main hesitation is it's a bit early historically and the art will look slightly anachronistic. Might be worth making the Salon unlock later, with stronger bonuses to compensate.

    See below for my thoughts on Mali's UB.

    Madrassa as a School replacement makes complete sense.

    They are bland. I'd run out of creative steam at that point and presented them as is in the hope you or someone would offer suggestions ;) Will mull them over.

    Probably best.

    As mentioned earlier, I've been fairly conservative distributing base espionage and culture so far. I do agree with the 'espionage-as-culture' approach, but there's something I want to think through first: whether there is just too much 'free' culture available. There's a lot, and I feel it undermines the value of the culture slider, artist specialists, and such. Culture as a mechanic has some flaws and cultural victory is a bit dull (and I'd like to address these in the future), but in the meantime I wonder if toning down the amount of raw culture will makes things a bit more strategic. Would like to hear your thoughts on this.

    A Ksour could work, though from what I read (e.g, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksar) it's the North African version of a castle, and associated just as much with the Berbers. I'm considering the Griot or Djali, a very iconic aspect of Mali's culture and history. (I realize both 'Griot' and 'Djali' both refer to people, not a building, but I don't think it's unreasonable to use the terms in this way - like 'Weaver' or 'Apothecary' - or we could go with 'Griot Hall' or the likes). The current art works well enough for either the Ksour or Griot/Djali I reckon.

    That bonus is meant to help coastal cities catch up a bit production-wise, so I don't think a 10% modifier hurts too much in this instance.

    I'd prefer the Mall to remain at the Supermarket and just made stronger to compensate. America is a late game civ and I don't feel any great need to change that too much.

    I'm not keen on spreading the marine health bonuses around too much. If they don't go on the Smokehouse, they can go back to the Harbour.

    Still don't want the Potato here. Fazenda might work here, but it feels a bit artificial. Maybe.

    I have both those additions, just neglected to list them in the draft.

    Name swap works. Unsure about using 'no unhealthiness from buildings' as a bonus this early on (kinda annuls the Industrial age before it starts, in a way), though I guess only a few cities would get it. 'No unhealthiness from population' feels more appropriate but then it's even more powerful. I agree that just adding yet more health isn't very interesting. Need to think on this more.

    It's not perfect but I definitely prefer 'Mill' to 'Industrial Park', and such a name also allows it to be unlocked earlier. Will need to find new art though. I'll have a think about your suggested stats for the Mill (and other Great People founded buildings) as I prepare a second draft.

    Someone made some art for a Dinh recently too, so I had the same idea. Much better choice.

    Neither, I've phased most of them out. Happy to cut this one completely too if we can make the relevant buildings interesting enough without it. These buildings are tricky to design and balance as, other than espionage, the stats they're associated with (maintenance and war weariness) are reductions rather than increases.

    I prefer 1 scientist at the Library and 2 scientists at the Laboratory, but the 5th scientist could go on the Distillery, or for an earlier option, the Apothecary (in addition to its doctor).

    Interesting. Though it would be incompatible with the engineer we're proposing to add to the Levee, as you'd always prefer production plus an engineer over just commerce. I don't mind river cities being more powerful - rivers were crucial to human history - but then perhaps adding an engineer here isn't a good idea after all if it's makes the gap too wide.

    I think that disregards the Gompa's social importance. I prefer a School replacement.

    As mentioned earlier, I'm fine with America being heavily late game focused. Japan we're fixing, but I agree Russia is a problem. Their pre-Industrial history isn't represented well other than by leader choice. Not sure 'Institute' is the ideal choice, but I'm all for giving them an earlier UB.

    In my next draft I'll also present my thoughts on UB placement (though not stats yet). Will consider things like this when doing so, as while I want choices to make reasonable sense, too many UBs of the same type isn't good for the game.

    Editing your previous posts would be very helpful, maybe using green to show edits made.


    Likewise, once I've had some time to consider your proposals for the Hospital et al.

    The medicine man angle could be good for the Sioux.

    Ah, so you did. All good.

    iAIWeight is a pretty blunt tool. It's all to easy for it to make no difference at all or to inadvertently make the AI beeline for the building at the expense of everything else. The calculations are not very transparent at all. Can give it a go though.

    Same problem as the Candi. Will mull over solutions.

    I'd actually like to remove another 25% ww reduction. Currently -75% is possible and I'd prefer it to be -50%, like maintenance.

    The Library of Ashurbanipal is another option, Academy replacement.

    Inclined to agree. I'd like to give it a Chinese name though, any idea what it is?



    That's all for now, will cover the Industrial and Modern suggestions later.
     
  3. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    Yes.

    I forgot about experience for Armoured units. This all works for me.

    Cinema seems too weak like that, but I'll consider it.

    Hadn't decided if bringing the GPP modifiers up to 100 was desirable or not. Probably fine.

    I'll leave it as is for now, as it might be something we can improve in the future. Investigation needed.

    Quite like some aspects of this and your other health related proposals, will think it through when assembling a second draft.

    Worth a revisit at some point certainly.


    Unique bonuses perhaps, but not keen on enabling them for other civs.

    Already had enough trouble balancing GA length, I'd prefer to leave it as-is for now.



    Did you have any proposals for the National Wonders? I'll start work on a second draft of all this, which will include UB assignments (but not stats yet).
     
  4. Azoth

    Azoth Inscrutable

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    Comin' right up:


    NATIONAL WONDERS

    Palace (150h / Property): +1 GPP (Prophet), reduces maintenance, +2 culture, +4 espionage
    Royal Cemetery (250h / Astronomy): +1 GPP (Doctor), +100% GPP, +4 culture, allows 1 priest, requires Cemeteries
    Heroic Epic (200h / Oratory): +1 GPP (Artist), +50% military unit production, +50% Great General emergence, +4 culture, requires level 4 unit

    Academy (400h / Philosophy): +1 GPP (Scientist), +100% research, allows 2 scientists, +4 culture, requires Libraries
    Mint (300h / Currency): +1 GPP (Merchant), +10% commerce from Amber/Gems/Gold/Jade/Silver, +1 happiness per 10% wealth rate, allows 1 merchant
    National Monument (250h / Law): +1 GPP (Engineer), -25% war weariness in all cities, +4 culture, requires Monuments
    Seasonal Palace (200h / Politics): + 1 GPP (Spy), reduces maintenance, +4 espionage, requires Castles

    Holy Office (500h / Dogma): +1 GPP (Prophet), +25% wealth, +25% espionage, allows 2 priests, required to train Inquisitors, requires state religion
    National Gallery (300h / Finance): +1 GPP (Artist), +100% culture, allows 1 artist, +4 culture
    National Theatre (500h / Patronage): +1 GPP (Artist), no unhappiness in city, allows 2 artists, requires Theatres
    Military Academy (500h / Logistics): +1 GPP (Spy), +4XP for land units, free Leadership promotion, +4 espionage, allows 1 spy, requires Barracks
    Naval Arsenal (400h / Compass): +1 GPP (Engineer), +2XP for naval units, +1 production on water tiles, allows 1 engineer, requires Shipyards

    Stock Exchange (600h / Corporation): +1 GPP (Merchant), +100% wealth, allows 2 merchants, requires Markets
    Iron Works (700h / Metallurgy): +1 GPP (Engineer), +25% production with Iron/Coal, allows 2 engineers, +2 unhealthiness, requires Smithies

    Refinery (700h / Refining): +1 GPP (Scientist), +25% production with Gas/Oil, +1 commerce on water tiles, +2 unhealthiness, allows 1 scientist, requires Distilleries
    National Park (400h / Ecology): +1 GPP (Doctor), no unhealthiness from population, 1 free specialist per Reserve, allows 1 doctor, requires Civic Squares

    Red Cross (600h / Journalism): +1 GPP (Doctor), free March promotion, allows 2 doctors, +4 culture, requires Clinics
    Security Bureau (800h / Computers): +1 GPP (Spy), +100% espionage, allows 2 spies, -100% anarchy length, requires Constabularies
    The Internet (1000h / Telecommunications): +1 GPP (Scientist), +25% commerce with Copper/Rubber, +1 trade route in all cities, +4 espionage, requires Laboratories


    NOTES
    • The Palace and Seasonal Palace are given tech requirements. This is mostly so that they appear on the tech tree, reminding players that they can be (re)built. A slightly later Royal Cemetery doesn't hurt, either. Spies can be moved from Politics to Record Keeping.
    • One specialist from the "major" 3-specialist wonders has been moved to a compatible "minor" wonder: Holy Office to Royal Cemetery (priest), Academy to Refinery (scientist), Stock Exchange to Mint (merchant), National Theatre to National Gallery (artist), Security Bureau to Military Academy (spy), Ironworks to Naval Arsenal (engineer), and Red Cross to National Park (doctor).
    • The health penalty for the Holy Office has been scrapped, largely to allow for UWs without causing offense. (See below.) The Holy Office no longer obsoletes at Civil Rights; only Inquisitors do.
    • I don't agree with swapping the bonuses on the National Gallery and Theatre. They really make more sense the other way around, especially when you consider UWs such as the Hermitage and Circus Maximus. The National Theater is the stronger wonder in most cases but the production costs can reflect that. The Gallery also moves to Finance to make room for the Intelligence Agency at Nationalism.
    • Banks already have a trade bonus so I gave Refineries +1 commerce on water tiles. It's been removed from the Feitoria so it's available.
    • I don't see the need for such high production costs on the National Park and Red Cross. The National Park, in particular, will probably be built in a low-production city with lots of unimproved Forest or Jungle. A less direct way to increase their cost is to add building requirements. Also, the Great Spy at Journalism can move to Radar to make room for the Red Cross.
    • For its cost and late arrival date, I thought the Security Bureau should be more powerful. No anarchy fits the bill. I've never liked such a variable bonus (useless for Spiritual leaders, godly for others) at a World Wonder. Cristo Redentor can be redesigned as "+1 food on water tiles, 1 turn minimum between civic and religion swaps, requires coastal city" or some such.
    • While the Telephone Network was interesting, ultimately I think the bonuses are better suited for the Internet, with each civilization joining the network at its own pace, instead of one civilization building it as a project, and owning it thereafter.

    Looking over the UWs, I can't find any information on some of them. A redesign may be in order. If you agree, I can look for art.
    • Mahcoshica (Sioux): rename Paha Sapa (Black Hills)
    • Maswinga (Zululand): replace with KwaMatiwane (Execution Hill) as a Holy Office UW
    • Puruli (Hatti): replace with Yazilikaya as a National Monument UW
    • Sangam (Dravida): replace with Brihadeeswara as a Holy Office UW (This one is different. The Sangam is a Tamil assembly: nice enough, but we can do so much better.)
    • Senuma Misiri (Mali): replace with the Tomb of Askia as a Royal Cemetery UW

    A few might be better renamed:
    • Iliad and Odyssey (Greece): rename The Iliad or even Song of Ilion; we should just pick one: naming both epics is awkward
    • Petra (Arabia): rename Al Khazneh, for the Treasury at Petra
    • Salsal (Kushana): rename the Bamiyan Buddhas; Salsal is the name of just one of the statues

    And some could stand to be reassigned:
    • Bete Giyorgis (Ethiopia): National Monument >>> Holy Office
    • Borobudur (Indonesia): National Monument >>> Holy Office
    • Himeji Castle (Japan): Seasonal Palace >>> Military Academy (saw more military than administrative use)
    • Al Khazneh (Arabia): Royal Cemetery >>> Mint (once a crypt, later a treasury)
    • Ramakien (Siam): National Theatre >>> Heroic Epic (it's Thailand's national epic)
    • Bayon (Angkor): National Gallery >>> Holy Office
    • Wieliczka (Poland): National Gallery >>> Mint (probably the best fit; it's a grand salt mine)
     
  5. Azoth

    Azoth Inscrutable

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    Hmm. I think it may be better to add non-religious buildings, to which the various UBs can add a religious dimension. The Candi as a Bath UB can work because some Candis did have baths attached, such as Candi Tikus at Trowulan (scroll down). Ideas for new buildings include the Garden (as I've already mentioned), Circus, Manor, Guildhall, and Inn.

    There is surprisingly appropriate art here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11128. (See Early Asian Temple.) Definitely an option.

    Well, Fazendas were 19th century Brazilian plantations, right? The Distillery is practically the only choice. Taverns are far too early. Actually, Salons might also be better as Distillery UBs...

    Hmm. My first thought is that raw culture is fairly limited. There's about +12 culture available from standard buildings, plus whatever you can manage from religion. For players not pursuing a culture victory, that's enough to make border control interesting. It's also roughly equivalent to two Artist specialists, or two Towns under 100% culture slider, or one major World Wonder, or one settled Great Artist. For culture victories, raw culture from buildings hardly matters. Every little bit helps, of course, but you mostly want to target percent culture modifiers and Great Artists. At some point you go full-out hedonist: 100% culture slider and as many artists you can manage. It's dull and unrealistic. Reducing raw culture will only hurt the players who aren't running artists or the culture slider because they aren't aiming for culture victory. Instead, I might suggest:
    • slider caps. At the start of the game, you can run a maximum of 100% research but only 20% wealth. Later technologies allow you to raise the wealth slider to 40%, 60%, 80%, and eventually 100%. Similarly, once you unlock the culture slider you can only raise it to 10%. Later technologies allow you to raise it in stages to a maximum of 50%. Ditto for espionage. This will slow expansion, since you can only run limited deficits. More importantly, it will encourage more steady culture and espionage slider outputs, since you can't push them to 100% on a dime.
    • tiered buildings. The Temple-Great Temple mechanic taken further: you need two Taverns per Distillery, or two Monuments per Civic Square. It might be annoying if taken too far, though.
    • increased building costs. HR has stronger improvements and stronger civics (especially Monarchy) but production costs have stayed mostly the same. If things are too cheap, you need to raise prices. Double the cost of Settlers and Warriors. Add a half again to the cost of Workers, Kilns, and Granaries. Calibrate everything else on the same curve and you won't be able to build every building in every city. You'll need to pick and choose.

    Either works for me.

    It'll only help cities who don't need it. +10% production is of no use to cities producing 1-9h, adds 1h to those producing 10-19h, 2h to those producing 20-29h, and so on. A flat +1 or +2 production would be better.

    A minor point: moving Smokehouses away from Pastoralism doesn't really accomplish anything. Smokehouses are only a worthwhile build once you're growing cities past size 5 or so, since you're not really storing much food before then. That's far enough away that the fact that Smokehouses are on the path to Property is irrelevant. By the time you're ready to build them, you'll be more than halfway to the Classical Era.

    There's definitely something useable here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8841, or here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8842. (Not all the buildings are shown in screenshots.) Heck, the Cannery from the first link could work. I suppose that means we're cutting the Industrial Park entirely.

    To be clear, I think the Levee is too powerful, and creates too much gap between river and non river locations, as is - without the engineer. The engineer is only there to compensate for the lost commerce. In the end, Levees should be something you build most of the time. You'd only maybe relent in a University or Mint city. Anyway, the engineer can always be at the Drydock instead.

    Options for Russia include the Bell Tower (significant for Orthodox Christianity), Opera House (again, culturally significant), and Krepost (not really interesting but Civ5 uses it). Thoughts?

    Yeah, but I think I messed up by restricting myself to two UBs per building. Three would give me a lot more leeway.

    On second thought, I think I'll leave them be. They're a bit scattered, interspersed with commentary, and I suspect we'll see a lot of changes before the final version. Too many to bother.

    That could work. That opens up -50% war weariness for a Great Person building, if we want it. Can we give those buildings (University, Mint, Mill, etc.) a name, by the way? "Great Person building" is awkward. And they're not National Wonders. Landmarks, maybe?

    Wikipedia says Ting. Google Translate agrees: the character translates to "kiosk, pavilion." But, depending on inflection, Ting could mean a lot of things: listen, stop, very, office, boat...
     
  6. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    Good idea.

    That's a cool idea, though I might set it to 20%.

    Fine with that.

    Tempted to leave the 'majors' with 3 but add 1 to the 'minors' anyway.

    The Holy Office has been removed completely in 1.21. Inquisitor availability is now tied directly to the Fundamentalism civic.

    That's fine, it's not a change I made for any great reason.

    Bit strange, but it could work.

    Increased costs are mostly to suit their era. I've been tweaking hammer costs for all buildings and wonders so that they ramp up in cost more steeply overall. I like many of your building requirement suggestions, so I'll definitely add some more of those.

    Hmm, I can definitely see the merit in that. Bit unrealistic perhaps, but it's the sort of thing that's needed to spice up the Modern era.

    Good idea, much more important for the Internet to be improved.

    Mahcoshica is the Lakota name for the Badlands National Park in South Dakota (and for badlands in general).

    Maswinga needs to go, it's a native name for the Great Enclosure at Great Zimbabwe. Dates from when I was intending to expand the Zulu into the Bantu, which I no longer am. Unless a Zimbabwean civ is added, Maswinga can return as a world wonder. We'll need new art for whatever we replace it with.

    Puruli was an important Hattian/Hittite festival. It's a pretty tenuous choice, so I don't mind replacing it. Finding suitable art is the challenge, and I would prefer a wonder with a Hittite name (Yazilikaya is a Turkish name for one section of Hattusa). More research needed here.

    Incidentally I was planning to add a National Festival for a while but abandoned the idea due to a lack of suitable art and it being yet another culture-focussed NW.

    I definitely want to replace this one. New art is available: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=18161, which opens up a lot of options (as does redefining the civ as Dravida). Haven't researched yet, but intending to.

    Senuma Misiri is the local Bambara name for the Great Mosque of Djenne.

    I don't find it awkward, but we could use 'Epics of Homer' or such instead I suppose.

    Agreed. Been meaning to make this change but never got around to it.

    It's the largest and possibly the oldest of the statues. I dislike having using place names in wonder names, as the wonders can be built in any city. The 'Bamiyan Buddhas of Kashgar' (or similar) sounds ridiculous. I need to change the name of the Amsterdam Bourse for the same reason.

    Good idea.

    My thoughts too.

    I went for National Theatre over Heroic Epic for a more appropriate era and because the epic isn't particularly military in nature. Not essential though.

    I prefer National Gallery here, better era for Poland and to emphasize the sculptures.

    Valid point. Will think about it.

    Convinced.

    No great loss in my opinion.

    Upon further thought I'm not sure the AI will handle such a change all that well. I don't see anywhere in the AI code that evaluates negative yield from buildings. Maybe better to just increase its hammer cost. Drydock engineer could be good too, though it does mean that Engineers are the only specialist type with slots available only to coastal cities (Naval Arsenal too).

    No opinion at the moment but will do some reading.

    3 is definitely achievable. Looking at UBs as they are in 1.20 it's only the Monument and Stadium that have 4 or more.

    It's awkward but they aren't labeled as such anywhere in the game that I've noticed, so it doesn't really matter.

    Ah yeah, inflection makes things tricky. 'Pavilion' will do then.
     
  7. Azoth

    Azoth Inscrutable

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    That makes a lot of sense.

    It also opens the door to a new religious National Wonder:

    Grand Temple (500h / Dogma): +1 GPP (Great Prophet), +1 research per city with state religion, +2 happiness with state religion, allows 1 artist, allows 1 doctor, allows 1 priest, requires state religion, requires Great Temples

    A National Wonder along those lines, which doesn't need to be built in a holy city, would be a big help for players and AIs that don't manage to found their own religions. It would also encourage players to eventually adopt a popular world religion, in much the same way that many historical civilizations eventually came to adopt Christianity, Islam, or Buddhism. And it would be a better fit for several UWs: Bete Giyorgis, Borobudur, Bayon, etc.

    Actually, a National Festival is a great idea. We don't need another cultural wonder, true. But if we ever design unique bonuses for the UWs, none of which are Golden-Age related, then the National Festival can launch a Golden Age.

    Hmm. A Google search of "Mahcoshica" turns up nothing outside of Civfanatics. "Makoshika" does show up as Sioux for "bad earth," but it refers to the separate Makoshika State Park in Montana. I guess we'll keep Mahcoshica, and replace it with Nanissaanah (Ghost Dance) if we ever add the National Festival.

    When in doubt, look for a Seasonal Palace. How about Enyokeni Royal Palace, site of the Umhlanga (Reed Dance)? It fits with the current art. And if we ever add a National Festival, we'll swap it out for Umhlanga.

    We just don't know all that many Hittite names, it seems. Yazilikaya is definitely a Hittite holy site and probably the most significant archeological find outside of Hattusa. The only thing else I can suggest is the Lion Gate of Hattusa. Or we can stick to Puruli, waiting for the National Festival.

    Again, a Google search of "Senuma Misiri" turns up nothing. Misiri is the local world for mosque, which leaves senuma as the unknown. Anyway, it's another candidate for the Grand Temple.

    Fair enough. In that case, I might actually prefer Salsal and Shahmama. Ironic, I know, considering my dislike for Iliad and Odyssey. I just think "Salsal" is hard to place without additional context.

    What will you change it to: a simple De Beurs? You could name it after the most recent building to house the Bourse, Beurs van Berlage.

    Since the work derives from the renowned Hindu epic, The Ramayana, I would definitely go with the Heroic Epic. (Maybe Siam just took a long time to get a unit to Level 4.) A better candidate for the National Theatre, which would also be appropriate for the art, is the Wat Phra Kaew, where many scenes from the epic are on display. Though it's also a good fit for the Grand Temple.

    On second thought, the Levee bonus is really better suited for a National Wonder:

    Levee (160h / Geology) +1 food, +5 production, allows 1 engineer, requires river
    Grand Canal (600h / Hydraulics) +1 GPP (Great Engineer), +1 production on river tiles, +100% trade yield, allows 1 engineer, allows 1 merchant, allows 1 spy, requires river, requires Levees

    To balance tech bonuses, reveal Oil could move from Geology to Chemistry, and reveal Gas from Geology to Physics.

    And, on a related note, the Three Gorges Dam really needs to be changed. It completely undermines HR's elaborate power plant system with its free power to every city on the continent, which in many cases means the entire empire. I suggest:

    The Three Gorges Dam (1750h / Electronics) +2 GPP (Great Engineer), +1 food on river tiles, provides power

    The only thing I might suggest is that you include them under National Wonders in the Civiliopedia, where players new to the mod are more likely to notice them.
     
  8. Nightstar

    Nightstar Prince

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    Too easily confused with one of the Corporations, I think.
     
  9. lindsay40k

    lindsay40k Emperor

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    That change to 3GD would make cities surrounded by farmed floodplains a bit brutal as a GP farm. I'd have thought hammers would make more sense than food, given that dams reduce the amount of available land?

    Also: Civ V's recently made a load of Wonders specific to certain Policies. I guess it's too much to expect Civ IV's AI to understand a similar system with Civics?
     
  10. Azoth

    Azoth Inscrutable

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    Hammers would make more sense than food, but getting anywhere up to 20 hammers per turn for a Modern Era wonder that costs 1750 hammers is poor payback. There's a good chance the game will end before you break even! Food is more powerful, though not nearly as strong as free power to every city on the continent, which is basically 200-300 free hammers per city. Food comes with its own constraints: you need health and happiness to support the extra population, and how will a farmed Floodplains city produce 1750 hammers before anyone else anyway?
     
  11. lindsay40k

    lindsay40k Emperor

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    That 20 HPT gets multiplied, though. The cost of the building can be reduced to reflect its utility, too.
     
  12. Nightstar

    Nightstar Prince

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    Something else to consider is that the Dam comes fairly late compared to the coal and even gas plants. It's likely that most of the cities affected will already have power before the Dam becomes available.
     
  13. lindsay40k

    lindsay40k Emperor

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    The 'everyone gets free power' wonder is usually used to switch off coal plants and gain health, not gain power that wasn't there.

    If Civ IV used a resource system like V does, power plants could produce units of energy and 3GD could produce many units. They could be imported and exported. But I guess that's not really an option :/
     
  14. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    Preschoolers and modding aren't particularly compatible some weeks. Anyway, here it is. Changes since the 1st draft are in red.


    Ancient

    Barracks (50h): +4 experience for Melee/Gunpowder units, +1 espionage
    Cemetery (40h / Ceremonial Burial): +1 health, allows 1 priest
    Granary (60h / Agriculture): stores 25% food after growth, +1 health with Corn/Potato/Rice/Wheat
    Harbour (60h / Shipbuilding): +1 food on water tiles, +1 health with Fish/Shellfish/Crab/Whale, requires coastal city
    Kiln (50h / Pottery): +2 commerce, allows 1 merchant, +1 unhealthiness
    Monument (30h / Carving): +1 culture
    Smokehouse (60h / Pastoralism): stores 25% food after growth, allows 1 doctor
    Stable (80h / Riding): +1 trade route, +4 xp for Mounted/Recon units
    Tannery (60h / Leather Working): +2 production, +1 unhealthiness, +1 happiness from Bison, Furs, Seal
    Theatre (50h / Oratory): +2 culture, +25% culture, allows 2 artists, +1 happiness from Hit Drama
    Walls (80h / Construction): +50% defense, -50% bombard damage, +4 experience for Archery units
    Water Well (40h / Mining): +1 food, cannot be built in coastal or river cities


    Classical

    Aqueduct (100h / Plumbing): +1 health, provides fresh water source
    Apothecary (100h / Medicine): Heals unit extra 10%/turn, allows 1 doctor
    Castle (120h / Architecture): +50% defense, +4 experience for Siege units, allows 1 spy, +1 culture, requires Walls
    Forge (120h / Steel Working): +25% production, +1 engineer, +1 unhealthiness
    Jail (120h / Law): +2 espionage, +25% espionage, +1 happiness per 10% espionage rate
    Library (100h / Writing): +2 culture, +25% research, allows 1 scientist
    Lighthouse (80h / Navigation): +2 trade routes, requires coastal city
    Market (150h / Currency): +25% wealth, allows 2 merchants, +1 happiness with Gems/Amber/Jade/Salt
    Stadium (80h / Engineering): +1 happiness, +1 happiness per 10% culture rate
    Weaver (80h / Aesthetics): +2 culture, +25% culture, allows 1 artist, +1 happiness from Dye/Cotton/Flax/Silk


    Medieval

    Bank (Finance): +50% wealth, +1 happiness per 20% wealth rate, constructed by Great Merchant
    Baths (120h / Welfare): +1 culture, +2 health, allows 1 doctor
    Courthouse (180h / Constitution): +2 espionage, +25% espionage, -25% maintenance
    Grocer (150h / Horticulture): +25% wealth, allows 1 merchant, +1 health from Fruit/Olives/Cocoa/Spice
    Mill (Machinery): +25% production from Peat/Timber, +4 wealth, constructed by Great Engineer
    Post Office (120h / Paper): +2 espionage, +1 trade route, allows 1 spy, requires Stable
    School (200h / Education): +2 culture, +25% research, +25% GPP, allows 1 scientist
    Shipyard (140h / Guilds): +10% production, +3 experience for naval units, requires Harbour
    Tavern (160h / Patronage): +50% trade route yield, allows 1 spy, +1 happiness from Coffee/Tea/Wine/Tobacco


    Renaissance

    Armoury (Replaceable Parts): +50% military unit production, 4 espionage, constructed by Great General
    Civic Square (240h / Urban Planning): +2 culture, +2 espionage, +25% culture, +25% GPP, allows 1 spy
    Clinic (250h / Biology): +3 health, heals units extra 10%/turn, allows 2 doctors
    Constabulary (200h / Civil Liberties): +2 espionage, +25% espionage, -25% maintenance, +1 happiness per 10% espionage rate
    Customs House (180h / Charter): +2 espionage, +100% foreign trade yield
    Distillery (180h / Chemistry): +25% wealth, +1 unhealthy, +1 happiness from Sugar, requires Tavern
    Drydock (220h / Hydraulics): +3 xp for naval units, builds naval units 50% faster, requires Shipyard
    Hospital (Biology): No unhealthiness from population, +4 research, constructed by Great Doctor
    Levee (240h / Hydraulics): +1 production on river tiles, allows 1 engineer
    Museum (Sociology): +50% culture, +1 happiness per 20% science rate, constructed by Great Artist
    Observatory (200h / Optics): +25% research, allows 1 scientist
    Sewer (200h / Sanitation): +2 health, +1 population, allows 1 spy
    University (Humanism): +50% research, +4 culture, constructed by Great Scientist


    Industrial

    Broadcast Tower (220h / Radio): -25% war weariness, +1 trade route, allows 2 artists, +1 happiness from Hit Singles
    Bunker (240h / Explosives): +2 espionage, +25% espionage, +50% defense against espionage, +4 experience for Armoured units
    Cinema (200h / Film): +2 culture, +25% culture, +1 happy per 10% culture rate, +1 happiness from Hit Movies
    Coal Plant (200h / Steam Power): provides dirty power with Coal, +2 unhealthiness
    Factory (250h / Machine Tools): +25% production, +50% production with power, allows 2 engineers, +3 unhealthiness
    Gas Plant (250h / Pneumatics): provides dirty power with Gas
    Hotel (260h / Flight): +50% trade route yield, +2 commerce per Wonder in city, +2 culture, +2 espionage
    Intelligence Agency (Journalism): +50% espionage, +50% defense against espionage, constructed by Great Spy
    Laboratory (300h / Electricity): +25% research, allows 2 scientists, +50% spaceship production, +1 unhealthiness
    News Press (280h / Journalism): +3 culture, +3 espionage, +25% GPP, +1 free specialist
    Park (300h / Ecology): +2 health, +1 free specialist per Nature/Marine Reserve, removes access to Coal
    Supermarket (260h / Plastics): +2 food, +25% wealth, allows 1 merchant, +1 health from Cattle/Pig/Sheep/Deer


    Modern

    Airport (320h / Aviation): Airlift 1 unit per turn, +4 air unit capacity, +3 xp for Air/Helicopter units, +1 trade route, +1 unhealthiness
    Bomb Shelter (200h / Atomic Physics): -50% damage from air units, -50% damage from nukes
    Hydro Plant (300h / Electronics): provides clean power, requires River
    Nuclear Plant (300h / Fission): provides clean power with Uranium, chance of meltdown
    Public Transport (280h / Combustion): No unhealthiness from Village/Town, allows 1 engineer
    Recycling Centre (300h / Composites): no unhealthiness from buildings
    Solar Plant (350h / Laser): provides clean power, maximum latitude 45°


    National Wonders

    Palace (150h / Property): +1 GPP (Prophet), reduces maintenance, +2 culture, +4 espionage
    Royal Cemetery (250h / Astronomy): +1 GPP (Doctor), +25% GPP in all cities, +4 culture, requires Cemeteries
    Heroic Epic (200h / Oratory): +1 GPP (Artist), +50% military unit production, +50% Great General emergence, +4 culture, requires level 4 unit

    Academy (400h / Philosophy): +1 GPP (Scientist), +100% research, allows 3 scientists, +4 culture, requires Libraries
    Mint (300h / Currency): +1 GPP (Merchant), +25% commerce from Gold/Silver, +50% trade route yield
    National Monument (250h / Law): +1 GPP (Engineer), -25% war weariness in all cities, +4 culture, requires Monuments
    Seasonal Palace (200h / Politics): + 1 GPP (Spy), reduces maintenance, +4 espionage, requires Castles

    Military Academy (400h / Logistics): +1 GPP (Spy), +4 experience for land units, free Leadership promotion, +4 espionage, requires Barracks
    National Theatre (500h / Patronage): +1 GPP (Artist), no unhappiness in city, +4 culture, requires Theatres
    Naval Arsenal (400h / Compass): +1 GPP (Engineer), +2 experience for naval units, +1 production on water tiles, requires Shipyards

    National Gallery (400h / Nationalism): +1 GPP (Artist), +100% culture, allows 3 artists, +4 culture
    Stock Exchange (600h / Corporation): +1 GPP (Merchant), +100% wealth, allows 3 merchants, requires Markets

    Iron Works (700h / Metallurgy): +1 GPP (Engineer), +25% production with Iron/Coal, allows 3 engineers, +2 unhealthiness, requires Forges
    Refinery (700h / Refining): +1 GPP (Merchant), +25% production with Gas/Oil, +1 commerce on water tiles, +2 unhealthiness, requires Distilleries
    Telephone Network (800h / Electricity): +1 GPP (Scientist), +25% commerce with Copper/Rubber, +1 trade route in all cities, +4 espionage, requires Post Offices

    Red Cross (700h / Civil Rights): +1 GPP (Doctor), free March promotion, allows 3 doctors, +4 culture, requires Clinics
    Security Bureau (800h / Computers): +1 GPP (Spy), +100% espionage, allows 3 spies, no anarchy when changing civics and religion, requires Constabularies




    Notes

    • There is now 20 culture and 20 espionage available from regular buildings (not counting Great People constructed buildings).
    • Each city can now get 100% GPP, like the commerces. Reductions (maintenance and war weariness) are now capped at -50%. Trade route yield modifiers are now all a minimum of 50% due to the lack of fractional trade yield. 4 trade routes available to all cities, coastal cities can have 6. (Not counting those from techs, wonders, civics, etc). Customs House available to all cities.
    • Now 5 slots for each specialist type from regular buildings, and still 3 of each from National Wonders. Decided not to split or increase the National Wonder slots in the end.
    • Smokehouse is no longer a seafood building. Gains a doctor slot but I haven't returned Salt or Spice to it (for now, may change my mind).
    • Some health related buildings are a little lacklustre (e.g Baths). I'm not too worried about this for now as disease mechanics are likely to appear in a future version and that will certainly add more levers to play with. Planning to overhaul Global Warming at some point too, which may also have an effect here.
    • I'm not happy with the Distillery. I took away it's war weariness reduction and haven't really found anything I like to replace it with that I haven't already used.
    • Not opposed to the Grand Temple or Grand Canal ideas, but prefer to consider them after 1.21.
    • The Hotel is a completely new building this draft. The Park is an experiment - the National Park converted to a regular building, or perhaps have both (art may rule this out). Needs iterating, your thoughts and ideas welcomed.
    • Although the Bank and the Mint's new bonuses might make better thematic sense the other way around, I think this way is better for gameplay.
    • Royal Cemetery has changes to be more akin to the Heroic Epic, affecting all cities instead of just one. I think this works much better with the new GPP system.
    • This draft lists the Telephone Network but I may still use it for the Internet. Still deciding. If I do go for the Telephone Network, I agree that the Internet should still be redesigned as a National Wonder. Perhaps after 1.21 though.
    • Other changes should hopefully be self-explanatory and are largely a result of things discussed already. I look forward to your questions and criticism.
    • Will post my thoughts on UB and UW replacements a bit later.
     
  15. Nightstar

    Nightstar Prince

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    Still mulling it over, but one thing that jumped out at me is that Courthouses and Constabularies are very similar and awfully close together.

    Also, I'm wondering if perhaps Theatres should require Monuments. As things stand, there will be very little incentive to build the latter after researching Oratory.

    Overall, I like the way it's shaping up though.

    Edit: A couple of minor errors: the Armory lists "+4 espionage" twice and has a hanging formatting code, and the Distillery is listed as requiring itself.
     
  16. Azoth

    Azoth Inscrutable

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    Some general comments before I suggest any changes:

    A good number. A cap on base health and happiness from regular buildings might also be a good idea.

    Maintenance reduction should be capped at -50% but war weariness could stand to be lower. There's a real gap in war weariness reduction between the National Monument and Broadcast Towers. I'd allow for -100% war weariness (from the Jail, Distillery, Broadcast Tower, and Bomb Shelter), then reintroduce a flat increase in enemy war weariness at the National Monument, to avoid scaling issues. Eliminating war weariness is possible via the Clan Warfare civic anyway but, unlike Police State from BtS, it doesn't translate well into later eras.

    The number of trade routes seems too high, especially compared with the 1 trade route available in BtS. At minimum, I think the trade route at the Broadcast Tower should be cut.

    I might quibble with some of your building choices. The Distillery seems to be a better place for an extra scientist slot than the School; likewise, the Stadium for a doctor over the Smokehouse, which comes too early anyway.

    I suggested a split in National Wonder slots because, while I think city specialization is great for gameplay, there's a risk of overspecialization. There is only one scientist available in the early game for all cities, at the Library, and then three scientists at the Academy. With the GPP changes, no city can compete with the Academy in producing Great Scientists. While this makes sense, other centres of research should eventually emerge. That's only possible if specialist slots are more widely distributed.

    I think the biggest problem in this draft is the disparity in power between various buildings. Compare:

    Granary (60h / Agriculture): stores 25% food after growth, +1 health with Corn/Potato/Rice/Wheat
    Apothecary (100h / Medicine): Heals unit extra 10%/turn, allows 1 doctor

    and

    Harbour (60h / Shipbuilding): +1 food on water tiles, +1 health with Fish/Shellfish/Crab/Whale, requires coastal city
    Shipyard (140h / Guilds): +10% production, +3 experience for naval units, requires Harbour

    If buildings are more expensive the later they are unlocked, they should be at least as strong as their predecessors. The Apothecary and Bath are, as you say, very lacklustre indeed. While they may come into their own once disease mechanics are introduced, I think we should try harder to achieve balance in 1.21. The simplest way to recalibrate building strength is to rearrange resource bonuses. That's why I've been so insistent on breaking the four-resource bonuses on certain buildings: the Granary, Harbour, and Supermarket. I know you prefer to keep them intact, though I'm not sure why, but I'll make one last pitch in my next draft.

    Sure.

    I like the Hotel; the Park, not so much. Its unique mechanics are better suited to a National Wonder, I think. A ubiquitous Park might also be too powerful, especially now that it's completely viable to retain Forest and Jungle until the Industrial Era. Then there are the matching Unique Wonders to consider.

    I really dislike this change. The old Royal Cemetery was a game changer and rewarded city specialization. It mattered greatly where it was built and what other National Wonder it was paired with. This new Royal Cemetery can be built anywhere and the bonus is barely noticeable. It also overlaps a bit with the Parthenon. The National Monument is similarly bland, which is why I'd like to see it changed.

    I'm not sure I see the reasons. Anyway, I think the Great Person building bonuses need to be a little stronger across the board; like I've said, they're competing with Golden Ages and corporate Headquarters, and most empires won't see more than a handful. Another change I've been mulling is adding +1 GPP to settled Great People. It makes them more competitive, especially in the early game when you want another Great Person of the same type down the road for their other abilities. Thoughts?

    I'd probably do things differently - redesign the Internet first, then decide whether to add the Telephone Network - but the other way works, too.

    This is also a problem. And I'm not sure if it's a typo, but I don't think both Jails and Constabularies should provide bonus happiness from the espionage slider.

    This might be addressed by slightly increasing the cost of the Theatre, such that Monuments are still preferable for quick border pops.
     
  17. Azoth

    Azoth Inscrutable

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    Suggested changes to Draft Two:


    Ancient

    Barracks (50h / Hunting): +1 espionage, +4 XP for Melee/Gunpowder units
    Cemetery (40h / Ceremonial Burial): +1 health, allows 1 priest
    Granary (60h / Agriculture): stores 25% food after growth, +1 health with Corn/Rice/Wheat
    Harbour (60h / Fishing): +1 food on water tiles, +1 health with Fish, requires coastal city
    Kiln (60h / Pottery): +1 unhealthiness, +2 production, allows 1 merchant
    Monument (30h / Carving): +1 culture
    Smokehouse (60h / Pastoralism): stores 25% food after growth, +1 health with Bison/Deer/Whale
    Stable (80h / Riding): +1 trade route, +4 XP for Mounted/Recon units
    Tannery (60h / Leather Working): +1 unhealthiness, +2 commerce, +1 happiness from Furs/Seal
    Theatre (70h / Oratory): +2 culture, +25% culture, allows 2 artists, +1 happiness from Hit Drama
    Walls (80h / Construction): +50% defense, -50% bombard damage, +4 experience for Archery units, double production speed with Stone
    Water Well (40h / Mining): +1 food, cannot be built in coastal or river cities


    Classical

    Aqueduct (100h / Plumbing): +1 health, provides fresh water source
    Apothecary (100h / Medicine): +1 health, allows 1 doctor, +1 happiness with Salt/Spice, heals unit extra 10%/turn
    Castle (120h / Architecture): +1 culture, +50% defense, +4 XP for Siege units, allows 1 spy, requires Walls, double production speed with Stone
    Jail (120h / Law): +2 espionage, +25% espionage, -25% war weariness
    Library (100h / Writing): +2 culture, +25% research, allows 1 scientist
    Lighthouse (80h / Navigation): +2 trade routes, requires coastal city
    Market (150h / Employment): +25% wealth, allows 2 merchants, +1 happiness with Gems/Amber/Jade
    Smithy (120h / Steel Working): +1 unhealthiness, +25% production, allows 1 engineer, +1 happiness with Gold/Silver
    Stadium (100h / Engineering): +1 happiness, +1 culture, +1 happiness per 10% culture rate, allows 1 doctor
    Weaver (80h / Aesthetics): +25% culture, allows 1 artist, +1 happiness from Dye/Cotton/Flax/Silk


    Medieval

    Baths (120h / Welfare): +1 culture, +2 health, +25% GPP, allows 1 doctor, heals units extra 10%/turn, requires Aqueduct
    Courthouse (180h / Constitution): +2 culture, +2 espionage, +25% espionage, -25% maintenance
    Grocer (150h / Horticulture): +25% wealth, allows 1 merchant, +1 health from Fruit/Olives/Cocoa, requires Granary
    Post Office (120h / Paper): +1 culture, +2 espionage, +1 trade route, allows 1 spy, requires Stable
    School (200h / Education): +1 culture, +25% research, +25% GPP, requires Library
    Shipyard (140h / Guilds): +2 production, +2 XP for naval units, +1 health from Crab/Shellfish, requires Harbour
    Tavern (160h / Patronage): +50% trade route yield, allows 1 spy, +1 happiness from Coffee/Tea/Wine/Tobacco


    Renaissance

    Civic Square (240h / Urban Planning): +2 culture, +2 espionage, +25% culture, +25% GPP, allows 1 spy, requires Monument
    Clinic (250h / Biology): +3 health, heals units extra 10%/turn, allows 1 doctor, requires Apothecary
    Constabulary (200h / Civil Liberties): +2 espionage, +25% espionage, -25% maintenance, +1 happiness per 10% espionage rate, requires Courthouse
    Customs House (180h / Charter): +2 espionage, +100% foreign trade yield, requires Market
    Distillery (180h / Chemistry): +1 unhealthy, +25% wealth, -25% war weariness, allows 1 scientist, +1 happiness from Potato/Sugar, requires Stadium
    Drydock (220h / Hydraulics): +4 XP for naval units, builds naval units 50% faster, requires Shipyard
    Levee (240h / Hydraulics): +1 production on river tiles, allows 1 engineer
    Observatory (200h / Optics): +1 culture, +2 espionage, +25% research, allows 1 scientist
    Sewer (200h / Sanitation): +2 health, +1 population, allows 1 spy


    Industrial

    Broadcast Tower (220h / Radio): -25% war weariness, +1 happy per 20% culture rate, allows 2 artists, +1 happiness from Hit Singles
    Bunker (240h / Explosives): +2 espionage, +25% espionage, +50% defense against espionage, +4 XP for Armoured units, requires Barracks
    Cinema (200h / Film): +1 happiness, +2 culture, +25% culture, +1 happiness from Hit Movies, requires Theatre
    Coal Plant (200h / Steam Power): +1 unhealthiness, provides dirty power with Coal, +2 unhealthiness
    Factory (250h / Machine Tools): +2 unhealthiness, +25% production, +50% production with power, allows 2 engineers, requires Smithy
    Gas Plant (250h / Pneumatics): provides dirty power with Gas
    Hotel (260h / Flight): +1 culture, +2 espionage, +50% trade route yield, +2 commerce per Wonder in city, requires Tavern
    Laboratory (300h / Electricity): +1 unhealthiness, +25% research, allows 1 scientist, allows 1 doctor, +50% spaceship production, requires Observatory
    News Press (280h / Journalism): +2 culture, +1 espionage, +25% GPP, +1 free specialist, requires Post Office
    Supermarket (260h / Plastics): +2 food, +25% wealth, allows 1 merchant, +1 health from Cattle/Pig/Sheep, requires Grocer


    Modern

    Airport (320h / Aviation): +1 unhealthiness, +1 trade route, +4 XP for Air/Helicopter units, may airlift 1 unit per turn, +4 air unit capacity
    Bomb Shelter (200h / Atomic Physics): -25% war weariness, -50% damage from air units, -50% damage from nukes
    Hydro Plant (300h / Electronics): +1 unhealthiness, provides clean power, requires river
    Nuclear Plant (300h / Fission): +2 unhappiness, provides clean power with Uranium
    Public Transport (300h / Combustion): no unhealthiness from Village/Town, allows 1 engineer, +50% production speed with Oil/Rubber
    Recycling Centre (300h / Composites): no unhealthiness from Mine/Workshop, allows 1 scientist, double production speed with Aluminum
    Solar Plant (350h / Laser): provides clean power, maximum latitude 45°


    Landmarks

    Bank (Finance): +4 espionage, +50% wealth, +50% trade yield, constructed by Great Merchant
    Mill (Machinery): +4 wealth, +25% production from Peat/Timber, +1 trade route, constructed by Great Engineer

    Armoury (Replaceable Parts): +4 production, +50% defense, +50% military unit production, constructed by Great General
    Hospital (Biology): +4 research, no unhealthiness from population, allows 2 doctors, constructed by Great Doctor
    Museum (Sociology): +50% culture, +50% GPP, +1 happiness per 20% science rate, constructed by Great Artist
    University (Humanism): +4 culture, +50% research, allows 2 scientists, constructed by Great Scientist

    Intelligence Agency (Journalism): +50% espionage, -50% maintenance, allows 2 spies, constructed by Great Spy


    National Wonders

    Palace (150h / Property): +1 GPP (Prophet), +2 culture, +4 espionage, reduces maintenance
    Royal Cemetery (250h / Astronomy): +1 GPP (Doctor), +4 culture, +100% GPP, allows 1 priest, requires Cemeteries
    Heroic Epic (200h / Oratory): +1 GPP (Artist), +4 culture, +50% military unit production, +50% Great General emergence, requires level 4 unit

    Academy (400h / Philosophy): +1 GPP (Scientist), +4 culture, +100% research, allows 2 scientists, requires Libraries
    Mint (300h / Currency): +1 GPP (Merchant), +25% commerce from Gold/Silver, +1 happiness per 20% wealth rate, allows 1 merchant, requires Markets
    National Monument (250h / Law): +1 GPP (Engineer), +4 culture, +2 production per Wonder in city, +50% enemy war weariness, requires Monuments
    Seasonal Palace (200h / Politics): + 1 GPP (Spy), +2 culture, +4 espionage, reduces maintenance, requires Castles

    Military Academy (400h / Logistics): +1 GPP (Spy), +4 espionage, +4 XP for land units, free Leadership promotion, requires Barracks
    National Theatre (500h / Patronage): +1 GPP (Artist), +4 culture, no unhappiness in city, allows 2 artists, requires Theatres
    Naval Arsenal (400h / Compass): +1 GPP (Engineer), +2 XP for naval units, +1 production on water tiles, allows 1 engineer, requires coastal city, requires Shipyards

    National Gallery (400h / Nationalism): +1 GPP (Artist), +4 culture, +100% culture, allows 2 artists, requires Weavers
    Stock Exchange (600h / Corporation): +1 GPP (Merchant), +4 espionage, +100% wealth, allows 3 merchants, requires Courthouses

    Iron Works (700h / Metallurgy): +1 GPP (Engineer), +2 unhealthiness, +25% production with Iron/Coal, allows 3 engineers, requires Smithies
    Refinery (700h / Refining): +1 GPP (Merchant), +2 unhealthiness, +25% production with Gas/Oil, +1 commerce on water tiles, requires Distilleries
    National Park (600h / Ecology): +1 GPP (Doctor), no unhealthiness from buildings, 1 free specialist per Reserve, removes access to Coal/Gas/Uranium, requires Civic Squares
    Telephone Network (800h / Electricity): +1 GPP (Scientist), +4 espionage, +25% commerce with Copper/Rubber, +1 trade route in all cities, requires Post Offices

    Red Cross (700h / Civil Rights): +1 GPP (Doctor), +2 culture, +2 espionage, free March promotion, allows 2 doctors, requires Clinics
    Security Bureau (800h / Computers): +1 GPP (Spy), +100% espionage, allows 2 spies, no anarchy when changing civics and religion, requires Constabularies


    Notes to follow.
     
  18. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    Quick thought/question:

    Since the GPP changes inadvertently prevented GPP generation being doubled during golden ages, the fix actually gives us a toggle we didn't have before. So I'm considering using this as a bonus of a National Festival wonder (applies to all cities, not just the one in which it is built). Worthwhile?
     
  19. lindsay40k

    lindsay40k Emperor

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    You know how a spy poisoning a well gives you a fading 8 unhealth? I'd be inclined to have a National Festival do that with :) instead.
     
  20. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    Changes since last draft are in red.

    Ancient

    Barracks (50h): +4 experience for Melee/Gunpowder units, +1 espionage
    Cemetery (40h / Ceremonial Burial): +1 health, allows 1 priest
    Granary (80h / Agriculture): stores 25% food after growth, +1 health with Corn/Potato/Rice/Wheat
    Harbour (80h / Shipbuilding): +1 food on water tiles, +1 health with Fish/Shellfish/Crab/Whale, requires coastal city
    Kiln (50h / Pottery): +2 commerce, allows 1 merchant, +1 unhealthiness
    Monument (30h / Carving): +1 culture
    Smokehouse (60h / Pastoralism): stores 25% food after growth, +1 happiness with Spice, +1 health with Salt
    Stable (80h / Riding): +1 trade route, +4 xp for Mounted/Recon units
    Tannery (60h / Leather Working): +2 production, +1 unhealthiness, +1 happiness from Bison, Furs, Seal
    Theatre (70h / Oratory): +2 culture, +25% culture, allows 2 artists, +1 happiness from Hit Drama
    Walls (80h / Construction): +50% defense, -50% bombard damage, +4 experience for Archery units
    Water Well (40h / Mining): +1 food, cannot be built in coastal or river cities


    Classical

    Aqueduct (100h / Plumbing): +1 health, provides fresh water source
    Baths (100h / Medicine): Heals unit extra 10%/turn, allows 1 doctor, +1 culture
    Castle (120h / Architecture): +50% defense, +4 experience for Siege units, allows 1 spy, +1 culture, requires Walls
    Forge (120h / Steel Working): +25% production, +1 engineer, +1 unhealthiness
    Jail (120h / Law): +2 espionage, +25% espionage, +1 happiness per 20% espionage rate
    Library (100h / Writing): +2 culture, +25% research, allows 1 scientist
    Lighthouse (80h / Navigation): +2 trade routes, requires coastal city
    Market (150h / Currency): +25% wealth, allows 2 merchants, +1 happiness with Gems/Amber/Jade
    Stadium (80h / Engineering): +1 happiness, +1 happiness per 20% culture rate
    Weaver (80h / Aesthetics): +25% culture, allows 1 artist, +1 happiness from Dye/Cotton/Flax/Silk


    Medieval

    Clinic (160h / Welfare): +2 health, -25% war weariness, heals units extra 15%/turn, allows 1 doctor
    Courthouse (180h / Constitution): +2 espionage, +25% espionage, -25% maintenance, requires Jail
    Grocer (150h / Horticulture): +25% wealth, allows 1 merchant, +1 health from Fruit/Olives/Cocoa
    Post Office (120h / Paper): +2 espionage, +1 trade route, allows 1 spy, requires Stable
    School (200h / Education): +2 culture, +25% research, +25% GPP, requires Library
    Shipyard (140h / Guilds): +2 production, +4 experience for naval units, requires Harbour
    Tavern (180h / Patronage): +2 culture, +50% trade route yield, allows 1 spy, +1 happiness from Coffee/Tea/Wine/Tobacco


    Renaissance

    Civic Square (240h / Urban Planning): +2 culture, +2 espionage, +25% culture, +25% GPP, allows 1 spy, requires Monument
    Constabulary (200h / Civil Liberties): +2 espionage, +25% espionage, -25% maintenance, +1 happiness per 10% espionage rate, requires Courthouse
    Customs House (180h / Charter): +2 espionage, +100% foreign trade yield, requires Market
    Distillery (180h / Chemistry): +25% wealth, -25% war weariness, +1 unhealthy, +1 happiness from Sugar, requires Tavern
    Drydock (220h / Hydraulics): +2 xp for naval units, builds naval units 50% faster, requires Shipyard
    Levee (240h / Hydraulics): +1 production on river tiles, allows 1 engineer
    Observatory (200h / Optics): +25% research, allows 2 scientists
    Sewer (200h / Sanitation): +2 health, +1 population, allows 1 spy


    Industrial

    Broadcast Tower (220h / Radio): -25% war weariness, allows 2 artists, +1 happy per 10% culture rate, +1 happiness from Hit Singles
    Bunker (240h / Explosives): +2 espionage, +25% espionage, +50% defense against espionage, +4 experience for Armoured units
    Cinema (200h / Film): +2 culture, +25% culture, +2 happiness, +1 happiness from Hit Movies
    Coal Plant (200h / Steam Power): provides dirty power with Coal, +2 unhealthiness
    Factory (250h / Machine Tools): +25% production, +50% production with power, allows 2 engineers, +3 unhealthiness
    Gas Plant (250h / Pneumatics): provides dirty power with Gas
    Hotel (260h / Flight): +50% trade route yield, +2 commerce per Wonder in city, +2 culture, +2 espionage
    Laboratory (300h / Electricity): +25% research, allows 1 scientist, allows 1 doctor, +50% spaceship production
    News Press (280h / Journalism): +3 culture, +3 espionage, +25% GPP, +1 free specialist
    Park (260h / Ecology): +2 health, +2 happiness, +25% GPP, allows 2 doctors
    Supermarket (280h / Plastics): +2 food, +25% wealth, allows 1 merchant, +1 health from Cattle/Pig/Sheep/Deer


    Modern

    Airport (320h / Aviation): Airlift 1 unit per turn, +4 air unit capacity, +4 xp for Air/Helicopter units, +1 trade route, +1 unhealthiness
    Bomb Shelter (200h / Atomic Physics): -25% war weariness, -50% damage from air units, -50% damage from nukes
    Hydro Plant (300h / Electronics): provides clean power, requires River
    Nuclear Plant (300h / Fission): provides clean power with Uranium, chance of meltdown
    Public Transport (280h / Combustion): No unhealthiness from Village/Town, allows 1 engineer
    Recycling Centre (300h / Composites): no unhealthiness from Mine/Workshop, allows 1 scientist
    Solar Plant (350h / Laser): provides clean power, maximum latitude 45°



    Notes

    • Still mucking about with the National Wonders a little, and the Great People buildings a lot. Will post seperately when done.
    • I haven't assigned the Barracks to a tech as I think there has to be at least one building option available from the start for all.
    • The reason I don't wish to split resources from buildings like the Granary is that I'd also have to rethink how I handle resource placement during map generation. No small task, with all map sizes and types to consider. Really prefer not to get into that.
    • The Smokehouse reverts to its 1.20 version. Granary and Harbour have their hammer cost increased as their resources are more readily available. These 3 food buildings are always going to be quite powerful compared to later buildings, but it just won't work to price them too highly so early on, to make later food/health buildings too cheap. Consider them outliers, not related to pricing for other all other buildings.
    • Haven't considered Harbour at Fishing yet, but will do.
    • The Apothecary is gone, the Bath returns to the Classical era, the Clinic shifts back to the Medieval era, and the redesigned Park takes over much of the Clinic's former role but in the Industrial era instead. Several reasons for this: 1) not enough art for both an Apothecary and Clinic, 2) too many health related buildings in the Renaissance era (Clinic, Sewer, and Hospital), and 3) without disease mechanics in place the buildings just weren't interesting enough.
    • I'm trying to avoid doubling up benefits from resources. Because Gold and Silver give powerful benefits via the Mint, they don't need to also grant happiness via the Forge. Same is true of Copper, Iron, Coal, Gas, Oil, and Rubber.
    • Just as there are two sources of happiness from the culture slider (Stadium at 20%, Broadcast Tower at 10%), there are also two sources of happiness from the espionage slider (Jail at 20%, Constabulary at 10%). The espionage buildings are fairly similar overall still, but this may change if civil war and/or stability mechanics are added. I've opted to use war weariness reductions elsewhere (have changed the National Monument similar to what Azoth suggested).
    • The School loses its scientist slot, but instead of the Distillery I shifted it to the Observatory. It needed a boost and I don't think espionage there makes any sense. Distillery gets it's war weariness reduction back, so it's fine.
    • Trade route from the Broadcast Tower is gone. I'll probably remove a trade route or two from the tech tree as well.
    • I like having both a scientist and a doctor slot at the Laboratory. I've moved the other scientist slot to the Recycling Centre but I'm concerned that this comes much too late to be of much use. Need an alternative minor bonus for the Recycling Centre before considering moving the scientist elsewhere though.
    • I'm unsure about using double production from resources for regular buildings, especially in the late game. Powerful buildings like the Recycling Centre need to be expensive and most cities are not lacking for hammers by then.
     

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