Feedback: Tech Progression

[KeeperOT7Keys]

I think current effect is appropriate; some civs are going to be unwilling to research it until it becomes crucial while the others can already research the techs that are derived from scientific method. If it would be so easy and tempting to research it (because of its bonuses) we wouldn't have concepts like westernization etc. And in the vanilla game scientific method used to enable secularism civic which increased scientific output with a trade off, maybe we can think of something like that?

 

[Leoreth]

I have been considering moving Secularism there.

 

[Ogi123]

Single monastery isn't that much problem but lot of civilizations have two, three or more religions in city. That a lot of lost.

 

[Leoreth]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[1SDANi]

If you move secularism there, perhaps you could rework it to have a bonus along the lines of "science buildings have +5% science" it isn't strictly better than monasteries, gives a disincentive to nations that haven't modernized, and gives a reason for European nations to go after Scientific Method. If 5% is too small, perhaps +10% science in science buildings would work, though I'm unsure of whether or not that'd be balanced. This also means you could give secularism some more stand out negatives, and in turn make it more distinct from Tolerance, which is currently the "State Religion Version of Secularism"

 

[Temüjin VIII]

I agree with the +10% science to Universities on Scientific Method. Represents the shift from religious to secular accurately enough. Although I don't think the game readily supports that--yield bonuses to buildings from technology may have to be coded manually into the DLL.

 

[Ogi123]

Eh, simpler resolution would be +10% for civ that researched scientific method.

 

[Temüjin VIII]

Eh, simpler resolution would be +10% for civ that researched scientific method.

Yeah, that's simpler. But that would be too easy a boost to those who did not invest in scientific infrastructure by building universities.

 

[Fresol]

Or just move the bonus to libraries and universities.

 

[calad]

Normal/Regent, latest SVN: at turn 140 Babylonia researched Architecture having super Babylon and two other minor cities (Persia did not attack). I think over all tech speed is fine, but Persia is not aggressive enough and there are too many key techs so no matter how good you are at game it is more about luck than skill.

 

[TheMughalEmperor]

I think current effect is appropriate; some civs are going to be unwilling to research it until it becomes crucial while the others can already research the techs that are derived from scientific method. If it would be so easy and tempting to research it (because of its bonuses) we wouldn't have concepts like westernization etc. And in the vanilla game scientific method used to enable secularism civic which increased scientific output with a trade off, maybe we can think of something like that?

Is Westernization in DoC?

Anyways, how is tech progression and modifiers done in regular DoC anyways? Asked Imp. Knoedel about how it works in Sunset of Civilization here https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/modmod-sunset-of-civilization.640028/#post-15333394

 

[TJDowling]

Is Westernization in DoC?

Anyways, how is tech progression and modifiers done in regular DoC anyways? Asked Imp. Knoedel about how it works in Sunset of Civilization here https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/modmod-sunset-of-civilization.640028/#post-15333394

Is Westernization a tech?

 

[Leoreth]

Westernisation does not exist. Not sure what you mean with the second question and what its relationship to the Sunset mod is.

 

[TheMughalEmperor]

Westernisation does not exist. Not sure what you mean with the second question and what its relationship to the Sunset mod is.

KeeperOT7Keys mentioned it here https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/feedback-tech-progression.620478/page-7#post-14968563 .

About the second question I mean, I very loosely understand that tech progression in RFC, and I guess DoC and its modmods too, is different for each civ. Wikipedia in its article about regular RFC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhye's_and_Fall_of_Civilization#Gameplay states this:

In Rhye's and Fall of Civilization, every civilization has different research and expansion rates. For example, before the nineteenth century the Europeans are technologically backwards to civilizations like Arabia, Turkey and China. But after that the Europeans become the more advanced civilizations (to reflect the Industrial Revolution in actual history) and leave Asian civilizations in the dust.

I see talks of "modifiers" here from time to time, but no real exact explanation of how they work. I have Python and I have looked at Science modifiers that seem to range from 70 to 140, except for the NPC Celtic civ which gets 350 (presumably to reflect its "barbaric" nature). But how can tech progression change over the era then? I hope I don't seem thick, can some good soul explain to me how this system works more in-depth?

 

[1SDANi]

KeeperOT7Keys mentioned it here https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/feedback-tech-progression.620478/page-7#post-14968563 .

About the second question I mean, I very loosely understand that tech progression in RFC, and I guess DoC and its modmods too, is different for each civ. Wikipedia in its article about regular RFC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhye's_and_Fall_of_Civilization#Gameplay states this:



I see talks of "modifiers" here from time to time, but no real exact explanation of how they work. I have Python and I have looked at Science modifiers that seem to range from 70 to 140, except for the NPC Celtic civ which gets 350 (presumably to reflect its "barbaric" nature). But how can tech progression change over the era then? I hope I don't seem thick, can some good soul explain to me how this system works more in-depth?

I think it's the combination of science and inflation modifiers that the wikipedia thread is referring to.

 

[Leoreth]

No that's alright, I just wanted to know from what perspective you're asking the question so I can give a meaningful answer. I think that wikipedia segment is very poorly written and not true at all. I know of no RFC mod (including the base mod) where tech rates change over time or due to some event. You already found where the modifiers are (Modifiers.py) and they work pretty straightforwardly: each civ has its own modifier in a variety of categories that affects their performance in that area, usually percentage based, reflecting how well these civs were doing in those areas historically. They are static throughout the game. When choosing them, I usually have outcomes in mind instead of looking at the modifiers directly: for instance, China has historically been one of the most advanced civilisations in history for long periods of time, but their research modifier is fairly bad to account for the fact that they already benefit from an early start and good terrain.

If you have more specific questions let me know, but your initial question seems to come from a wrong assumption due to the misleading wiki article.

 

[1SDANi]

No that's alright, I just wanted to know from what perspective you're asking the question so I can give a meaningful answer. I think that wikipedia segment is very poorly written and not true at all. I know of no RFC mod (including the base mod) where tech rates change over time or due to some event. You already found where the modifiers are (Modifiers.py) and they work pretty straightforwardly: each civ has its own modifier in a variety of categories that affects their performance in that area, usually percentage based, reflecting how well these civs were doing in those areas historically. They are static throughout the game. When choosing them, I usually have outcomes in mind instead of looking at the modifiers directly: for instance, China has historically been one of the most advanced civilisations in history for long periods of time, but their research modifier is fairly bad to account for the fact that they already benefit from an early start and good terrain.

If you have more specific questions let me know, but your initial question seems to come from a wrong assumption due to the misleading wiki article.

Yeah, I think whoever wrote that wikipedia article mistook the general gameplay loop, blanket research cost and the inflation over time for some "westernization" mechanic. Research cost modifiers match the "initial tech ability" and inflation matches the "over time growth or decline". Less of a westernization mechanic and more of a series of mechanics to guide the AI to act historically.

 

[Leoreth]

Yes, and saying "westernisation mechanic" implies there's a specific thing you can do to westernise. Or even conversely, the wikipedia article implies there's something happening to western civs that helps them catch up to the rest of the world which is at least closer to real history than how other games represent the idea of westernisation.

 

[TheMughalEmperor]

I think it's the combination of science and inflation modifiers that the wikipedia thread is referring to.

Where can I look the inflation modifiers up? Do they differ based on if you select the 600 AD, 1700 AD or 3000 BC start? Can the player influence them in any way?

 

[merijn_v1]

Where can I look the inflation modifiers up? Do they differ based on if you select the 600 AD, 1700 AD or 3000 BC start? Can the player influence them in any way?

You can see the modifiers in Modifiers.py.
Yes, they differ for different scenarios. But it is a general modifier for all civs, not a different modifier for each specific civ.
You cannot change them in normal gameplay, but you can edit the modifiers in the WB player screen.