Feedback: Tech tree

[Kael]

Firstly, Kael, it's an honor to "meet" you. You don't seem like to type to appreciate hero-worship overmuch, but you can hardly do what you've done without having a little bit of it directed towards you.

Anyway, now that that's out of the way, I see your point about FfH's tech tree compared to the vanilla one. I still dislike it, but at least there's a reason behind it. One other point I meant to raise: do you think that a few more either/or tech connections would be possible? I know that you want people to choose their specializations in techs, but a little bit of synergy couldn't hurt between the specializations . Ah, another other point, raised by your response: does the AI follow this specialization logic? I think I know the answer, but it would be nice if they could be made to follow a certain path based on their "personality."

Yeah, that was one of the major reasons for the design. The ai picks techs partly on the "flavor" of the tech (military, science, religion, sphenisciformes, culture, economy) so by creating branches of the tree and correctly setting the techs to these flavors we can make the magic civs more liekly to go after the magic techs, the military civs go after the military techs, etc.

I understand and empathize with your difficulties keeping techs from being "too specific." I didn't mean it for as much of a criticism as just to make sure we're all on the same page.

About the reluctance to found an opposed religion, though, I think we might be in disagreement. Of course, the AI should aim away from founding that particular religion, but what happens is that the Ashen Veil or The Order often ends up getting founded by a tech trailer and doesn't ever become prominent. It is really detrimental to having a big holy war when the opposed religion is founded by some crap Civ... but maybe founding a religion could give the founder a bonus to put him back in the running if he's falling behind. I have no idea how.

Anyway, the AI should still be able to found a religion completely opposed to it in my opinion. I really wouldn't mind seeing Sabathiel or some other good leader found the Ashen Veil and convert, a "fall from heaven" if you will. The opposite should be possible as well, like Hyborem founding The Order, a redemption maybe. In any case, I agree that it should be rare. Founding two different religions, that should be avoided by the AI. In fact, there should be penalties or incentives not to do so, even for humans. I'm not sure if that belongs in this thread though, so I'll shut up here.

Yeah, thats why I wanted to be very sparing in its use. But I didn't like the previous situation of the first religion founded spreads to everyone and you now have a world full of evil people. So we are trying to find a good balance. A few civs prefer a religion, but not all.

 

[Xereq]

I noticed that if you go for a religous tech that already has the religion founded you get pretty much didly squat until the religion spreads to your land, which got me thinking...and here's what I came up with:
A national wonder for each religion tech called the first national church of X religion. It could create a t3 diciple of the religion, and two t2 diciples of that religion. This would make the get-religion techs more useful for the slower reasarch rate civs, like any civ with the barbarian trait.

 

[TheCowSaysMoooo]

I don't know if anyone will be interested... especially since it'll be changing right away in the next version, but...

While I was working on a somewhat more advanced version of my scenario, I was having a hard time visualizing the whole tech tree with the vertical scrolling, so I cut and pasted together screenshots of the tree. It's still big, but it helped me, so I thought I'd make it available to anyone else who might find it useful.

 

[Kael]

I don't know if anyone will be interested... especially since it'll be changing right away in the next version, but...

While I was working on a somewhat more advanced version of my scenario, I was having a hard time visualizing the whole tech tree with the vertical scrolling, so I cut and pasted together screenshots of the tree. It's still big, but it helped me, so I thought I'd make it available to anyone else who might find it useful.

Nice, I would be very interested to get one of these with the 0.14 tree when it comes out if your able.

 

[Silmeran]

I think the 'God King' civic is available too early, in my previous game I adopt it on ~10-15 turn, and that has given me the big advantage above those who does not begin with 'Ancient Chants' technology (+50% hammers= very fast expanding).

 

[Chalid]

About the tree. maybe we can make it even bigger vertically. so that the seperate brances do stay clearly seperated visually.

 

[evanb]

What exactly is the sound that plays upon discovering Malevolent Designs?

 

[Kael]

What exactly is the sound that plays upon discovering Malevolent Designs?

Its the Monty Python Architect sketch.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

The religion specific civics are all behind techs that require a specific state religion to research. This means Gregori cannot adopt these even under free religion, which I read was the case previously? Oddly though, I can adopt Arete, though not any others.

Ah, that makes since, F-V.

 

[Frozen-Vomit]

The religion specific civics are all behind techs that require a specific state religion to research. This means Gregori cannot adopt these even under free religion, which I read was the case previously? Oddly though, I can adopt Arete, though not any others.

I noticed this problem too. I think you can get arate because it is enabled by the pyramids.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Yeah, that's a funny side-effect of the pyramids. As a sidebar, are you considering changing the effects of the pyramids? Enabling all labor civics doesn't seem so powerful (though the GE is nice).

 

[Kael]

Yeah, that's a funny side-effect of the pyramids. As a sidebar, are you considering changing the effects of the pyramids? Enabling all labor civics doesn't seem so powerful (though the GE is nice).

Considering removing the pyramids actually.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Well, if you're aiming towards making all of the wonders unique to your fantasy world, I guess axing the pyramids is inevitable. I wouldn't mind seeing a civic-allowing wonder, or an early, expensive, GE producing wonder, though. They don't necessarily have to be the same.

 

[TheCowSaysMoooo]

Haven't had a chance to even play the new version, yet, but here's the new tech tree:

 

[Kael]

Haven't had a chance to even play the new version, yet, but here's the new tech tree:

Beautiful work, thank you so much. Im going to include it in the first post in this thread and the main thread.

 

[mindlar]

Yeah, that's a funny side-effect of the pyramids. As a sidebar, are you considering changing the effects of the pyramids? Enabling all labor civics doesn't seem so powerful (though the GE is nice).

I find just the opposite. Being able to switch to the civic that gives 1 free specialist (caste system IIRC) is incredibly useful in the early game.

 

[Silverkiss]

Ya, thats my opinion too, somethimes I get the Pyramids early and its very good to use that 1 free specialist in every city, plus the +2 culture from each specialist.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Yeah, but that particular Civic is not quite so useful when you're Creative, as your cities expand on their own, and isn't as useful in FfH in general because of the decreased effectiveness of great person farming. None of the other civics stand out, also, which means that the Pyramids might as well just unlock Caste System. Could different effects be given to it? I guess it might as well be given a fantasy name, in that case. Not really a big point, but I guess it's worthy of discussion.

 

[Silverkiss]

Well, I like playing some civs that aren´t creative, so its usefull for that, and the +1 specialist is good in my opinion not because of Great Persons, but because of the bonus they provide.

 

[evanb]

How about turning them into a Malakim national wonder of some sort, with other effects? The Pyramids do represent sun rays.