Feedback thread

[Explorer]

I've noticed that I can't build Mag Tubes on hills/ridges, and it doesn't seem to be based on the "gradual slope" design, because my ground troops can move directly into the square but my formers can't build Mag Tubes there.

If this is by design, then can you add basic roads back? I'm pretty sure I remember roads in SMAC.

Also, how long do I have to wait until I can play the Data Angels? I'd love to play an espionage economy in this game.

Great work, by the way!

 

[Maniac]

I've noticed that I can't build Mag Tubes on hills/ridges, and it doesn't seem to be based on the "gradual slope" design, because my ground troops can move directly into the square but my formers can't build Mag Tubes there.

That's for graphical reasons. It would be confusing to have magtubes run from lowlands to ridges, yet still be unable to walk from lowland to ridge. As a side-benefit, I do think not being able to have magtubes everywhere has the potential to make warfare more interesting.

Also, how long do I have to wait until I can play the Data Angels? I'd love to play an espionage economy in this game.

When I finish my current game I'll plan adding the Pirates and then the Angels. But finishing my current game may take a while... I started my current one two weeks ago and I'm at turn 199 now.

 

[Explorer]

Thanks for the quick reply.

What about basic roads? I would suspect that it wouldn't be too far out of flavor to allow troops from a flatland to travel to a ridge using roads. Perhaps instead of just preventing troops from traveling 2 levels of terrain, you could have the terrain cost too high for infantry to move without a road (and have the road only allow them to move one square). That way roads will be much more useful, and you still prevent multi-level movement in the wilderness.

I'm towards the end of my first game, and I haven't found any technologies that unlock the "hurry build" button yet. Is this implemented? Also, is the economic victory an allowable win condition? Without these two elements, having a great economy really only allows you to move your research slider up by 10% more.

 

[Pfeffersack]

When I finish my current game I'll plan adding the Pirates and then the Angels. But finishing my current game may take a while... I started my current one two weeks ago and I'm at turn 199 now.

Glad to hear that we come closer to this More factions will do Planetfall good. Things as the concordate council suffer from often very few members. Also, being able to play with more then 7 factions will be really different to the original SMAC, where this was never possible.

I'm towards the end of my first game, and I haven't found any technologies that unlock the "hurry build" button yet. Is this implemented? Also, is the economic victory an allowable win condition? Without these two elements, having a great economy really only allows you to move your research slider up by 10% more.

Have you researched Nanites yet? This tech should enable it - however, it is only possible for rushing buildings (except for Morgan, who can hire units units that way as well)

 

[Explorer]

Glad to hear that we come closer to this More factions will do Planetfall good. Things as the concordate council suffer from often very few members. Also, being able to play with more then 7 factions will be really different to the original SMAC, where this was never possible.




Have you researched Nanites yet? This tech should enable it - however, it is only possible for rushing buildings (except for Morgan, who can hire units units that way as well)

Wow, Nanites. That's pretty far up the research chain. Is that where building rushing was in the original SMAC? Oh well, at least I have my answer.

And yes, I agree with you, Pfeffersack. In Civ IV, I play a huge map with 18 civilizations. Playing with 7 just seems so...empty. I'd even be happy if a few more civilizations, not in the original SMAX game would be added!

Oh, and after upgrading half of my Armor units to Mass Drivers, and I've noticed that a Mass Driver's bombardment is 8% but the weaker Armor unit's bombardment is 10%. I've also just noticed that my Mass Drivers don't have a ranged attack mode, either. It almost seems like there's no reason to upgrade the Armor units.

EDIT: Wait. Now it appears that only one of my previously upgraded Armor units (now a Mass Driver) has the ranged attack promotion. The other one does. Nevermind.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Is that where building rushing was in the original SMAC?

No, rushing in SMAC was possible for everything - including secret projects - right from the beginning, which made it very (rather too) powerful.

Oh, and after upgrading half of my Armor units to Mass Drivers, and I've noticed that a Mass Driver's bombardment is 8% but the weaker Armor unit's bombardment is 10%. I've also just noticed that my Mass Drivers don't have a ranged attack mode, either. It almost seems like there's no reason to upgrade the Armor units.

EDIT: Wait. Now it appears that only one of my previously upgraded Armor units (now a Mass Driver) doesn't have a ranged attack mode. The other one does. That seems odd....

It depends on what special abilities you have selected for them. The Mass Driver has an initial 8% bombardment and both units can get Accuracy on top (+10%). For the range attack, both only get it by choosing the corresponding special ability.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

What about basic roads? I would suspect that it wouldn't be too far out of flavor to allow troops from a flatland to travel to a ridge using roads. Perhaps instead of just preventing troops from traveling 2 levels of terrain, you could have the terrain cost too high for infantry to move without a road (and have the road only allow them to move one square). That way roads will be much more useful, and you still prevent multi-level movement in the wilderness.

Build a bunker on the ridge.

 

[Explorer]

Build a bunker on the ridge.

I guess that's not a bad idea--if I have extra formers that I don't want/need anymore.

 

[GeoModder]

I guess that's not a bad idea--if I have extra formers that I don't want/need anymore.

Train some extra formers perhaps?

 

[Explorer]

Train some extra formers perhaps?

You don't win games higher than Prince, do you?

 

[Maniac]

Um, what's wrong with his advise? If you really value mobility so highly, you can get it by building bunkers. If you think the cost is too high, well then I guess it just means mobility isn't that crucial to you after all. Planetfall is a strategy game, which means you're gonna have to make choices like that from time to time.

 

[Pfeffersack]

A request...I noticed that you get a log message about when one of your bases revolts only, but not if a base revolts and changes its owner to the rebels (also not if an AI base switches to the rebels, but if an AI recaptures such a base). Would it be possible to add such notifications?

 

[Maniac]

Did so yesterday.

 

[Explorer]

Um, what's wrong with his advise? If you really value mobility so highly, you can get it by building bunkers. If you think the cost is too high, well then I guess it just means mobility isn't that crucial to you after all. Planetfall is a strategy game, which means you're gonna have to make choices like that from time to time.

Oh, there was nothing wrong with the initial advice. When I said if I have formers that I don't need or want anymore, I wasn't being facetious. I was being sincere in that comment. But the idea of building "extra" formers is a bit ridiculous.

At the higher levels, every turn counts--especially at the beginning. And at the beginning, Formers don't get built in one turn. I'll need those Formers to develop my burgeoning empire, and as a result, I just can't sacrifice them to build a bunker until later in the game. Granted the AI isn't as aggressive in this mod as regular Civ IV, but if I spent my time building "extra" formers instead of military units, I'm most certainly going to lose a base or two to the native life forms--especially if I go the terraformer route.

Of course, if a fungal bloom occurs on a ridge in my territory, it could very well take 5 or more turns to send my infantry units out to exterminate them. Of course, the flying native units don't have that problem. Do I send 2 infantry units out to take out the spawning unit, or do I keep them "on the ground" to protect against the Locusts of Chiron that will inevitably spawn while my infantry are on the way up the ridge?

I agree that it's more of a strategy than anything, but in the early game, I just don't have the luxury of losing valuable units to secure my borders. Especially units that will secure my borders simply by clearing out the fungus. Later in the game, it doesn't hurt me much, and bunkers are indeed a VERY useful addition. But the early game strategies are far too vital to implement that as a viable strategy.

I guess my issue is the lack of the traditional roads (which can be used as a means of allowing travel that wouldn't normally be available without them).

 

[Explorer]

Oh, I wanted to ask you about this as well:

I had a dropship flying over the ocean in my game, and it was attacked and destroyed by an Isle of the Deep. Are all vanguard units considered ground units according to the program, or do the Isles of the Deep have the ability to attack flying units? Or is that just a bug?

It seemed a little odd, since I would figure that flying unit could avoid native naval units.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Bear in mind that the formers don't just go to waste - you get the bunker unit. While it's not mobile, it's still a valuable military unit and does a great job at softening up native life.

Furthermore, there are other ways to get around the lack of traditional roads (though I admit that I'm usually playing at Noble... and sometimes I still miss having roads):
-> Build dropships to carry around your troops over ridges.
-> Try to secure some more borders on water, the double movement on water can help with "side-stepping" ridges that border on the coast.
-> Drop troopers (and mobile infantry) in a strategically placed city/bunker has supreme mobility with their paradrops (though the moving back can take some time)
-> Maintain a more mobile strike force (i.e. choppers etc.) - they're great for defence against natives (since they can fight on water as well).

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

but if I spent my time building "extra" formers instead of military units

As Lord Tirian says, when you intend to build bunkers with them, formers are military units. Bunkers are a terraformer's best friend.

Of course, if a fungal bloom occurs on a ridge in my territory, it could very well take 5 or more turns to send my infantry units out to exterminate them.

1) Fungal Bloom can't happen on Ridges.
2) With a Bunker your units could immediately walk onto the ridge.

I had a dropship flying over the ocean in my game, and it was attacked and destroyed by an Isle of the Deep.

All Isles of the Deep are home to a small colony of Locusts, which can attack low-flying units such as choppers and dropships.

Stealth transports are a better choice when going into unknown waters.

 

[Explorer]

Bear in mind that the formers don't just go to waste - you get the bunker unit. While it's not mobile, it's still a valuable military unit and does a great job at softening up native life.

Furthermore, there are other ways to get around the lack of traditional roads (though I admit that I'm usually playing at Noble... and sometimes I still miss having roads):
-> Build dropships to carry around your troops over ridges.
-> Try to secure some more borders on water, the double movement on water can help with "side-stepping" ridges that border on the coast.
-> Drop troopers (and mobile infantry) in a strategically placed city/bunker has supreme mobility with their paradrops (though the moving back can take some time)
-> Maintain a more mobile strike force (i.e. choppers etc.) - they're great for defence against natives (since they can fight on water as well).

Cheers, LT.

I guess that's a good way of thinking about it. Although, in the up to 13 turns it could take to create the Former, travel to the site, and then build the bunker I'd probably just build 3 Flamethrowers.

Dropships aren't an early game unit, however. Nor are Drop troopers and Mobile Infantry. My main desire for roads stems from the early game issues. That's why bunkers aren't feasible in the early game either.

Choppers. That's a really good idea. They're a fairly early game unit and can ignore terrain features. This is most likely the best early-game solution to the problem. Thanks.

@Maniac: Ahh! In first game, I had lots of hills and ridges in my starting area. I feared the spawning on the ridge, and sent my Formers to remove it right away. Especially since I had Deidre as my closest neighbor--and we KNOW what kind of trouble she likes to cause. Good to know fungal blooms will never occur on ridges.

I suspected that once I got attacked the Isles of the Deep had some sort of surface-to-air interface, but I wasn't sure. Man, you're just EVIL!

 

[Maniac]

In case there's confusion, that Locust story is just a roleplay justification. There isn't an actual Locust unit in the IoD cargohold.

 

[GeoModder]

I guess that's a good way of thinking about it. Although, in the up to 13 turns it could take to create the Former, travel to the site, and then build the bunker I'd probably just build 3 Flamethrowers.

That's called making a strategic choice. If you feel 3 flamethrowers in the area were you would have plonked a bunker are better value for your money, there you go.