[MOD] FFH TweakMod

[Verdian]

Settlements trigger Guardians, but only in the thin cross. This is actually implemented in the current download

You already added the Settlers mechanic, or the guardians in the thin cross mechanic? Either way, that was fast.

I think we're far beyond that. Although the mod remains true on only improving on old content. I want to make slower teams more interesting, eliminate micromanagement, and improve old mechanics so they flow better.

You may wish to update your mission statement in post 1.

Looking through that post, might I add a big "thank you" for moving Nightwatch to Deception? Having to go so far down another tech was annoying. Also, in regards to the Rat Catchers guild, could you implement its creation back to how it used to be? Remember when it spawned early and moved to whatever city had the highest crime rate? And because I love lists, here is why I would prefer it!
1) Right now, Deception grants a lot of benefits for Esus(all of them except Shadowriders?). Moving a few things out of that tech would help the bloat.
2) The first person to get to Deception gets everything good for Esus. Making the mechanic for a building that benefits Esus a bit more varied would be nice.
3) The Ratcatchers Guild seems like an early mechanic to me. It is basically a group of pickpockets, and does not seem to fit well into the complex machinations of the Deception tech. The appearance early game of a group of pickpockets was always appealing to me.
4) It makes the followers of Esus want to have as much crime in their city as possible, and even compete for it.
5) It's something different and fun, which is always good.

Let me stress that I don't think the Ratcatchers Guild should do anything other than up the crime rate of a city UNTIL that player adopts the Council of Esus religion. Then all the listed benefits can begin. If it is impossible to have a building move around like this, just change it back to a guild.

 

[Deon]

I love how you solve most annoying things which were usually untouched by other modders:

*'Create Puppet' sound removed.
*Removed the goblin dumping event.
*Lowered cost of Javelin Throwers from 90 to 60 .
*Remove Overcouncil resolutions that ban mana (so the computer doesn't ruin your day with them).
*Seige units collapse lairs they explore (lair destroyed, no event triggers).

However what does it mean?

*Revelation will now reveal units hidden by Nox Noctis (Kind of. Still working on this).

"Kind of"?

As for the:

*Sidar Palace gives invisibility to all units with the player's borders.

Wow... A free Nox Noctis?

About battlemages: I don't remember, does winterborn give some fire weakness? Because it's 3+3fire +40%vs. winterborn unit... which can use weapons, right? Or not? Maybe unbalanced in Amurite vs Illians game, maybe not. How is it played?

 

[Rystic]

1) Right now, Deception grants a lot of benefits for Esus(all of them except Shadowriders?). Moving a few things out of that tech would help the bloat.
2) The first person to get to Deception gets everything good for Esus. Making the mechanic for a building that benefits Esus a bit more varied would be nice.

Not entirely true; Aeron's Bounty is an Esus-only wonder that's available at Guilds. Also, I'm changing the Ratcatchers' Guild to a national wonder in the next update, so every Esus player can build one.

3) The Ratcatchers Guild seems like an early mechanic to me. It is basically a group of pickpockets, and does not seem to fit well into the complex machinations of the Deception tech. The appearance early game of a group of pickpockets was always appealing to me.

I'll admit, I'm doing a bit of a re-imagining of the Ratcatchers' Guild. I want it to be more like the Council of Esus wonder from the old Fall From Heaven.

4) It makes the followers of Esus want to have as much crime in their city as possible, and even compete for it.

Higher crime rates for civs with Esus are good. The higher a city's crime, the more likely units will be born with assassin-related promotions.

Let me stress that I don't think the Ratcatchers Guild should do anything other than up the crime rate of a city UNTIL that player adopts the Council of Esus religion. Then all the listed benefits can begin. If it is impossible to have a building move around like this, just change it back to a guild.

That can be done with shenanigans in Python, but I'd prefer to keep the Ratcatchers' Guild the way it is. It was part of a bulk-package to make Esus less bland.

However what does it mean?

"Kind of"?

Revelation will remove invisibility from a unit hidden by Nox Noctis, but they have to be invisible by other means first (like Hidden). It's something I'm working on.

As for the:

Wow... A free Nox Noctis?

This idea came from the Sidar Plus thread in the Fall Further forum. I think it's fitting, and it suits the builder-style. It also makes them damn hard to conquer.

About battlemages: I don't remember, does winterborn give some fire weakness? Because it's 3+3fire +40%vs. winterborn unit... which can use weapons, right? Or not? Maybe unbalanced in Amurite vs Illians game, maybe not. How is it
played?

They're meant to be Anti-Illian/Doviello units. I tried establishing the Amurites as a counter to the Winterborn teams.

 

[cabbagemeister]

This idea came from the Sidar Plus thread in the Fall Further forum. I think it's fitting, and it suits the builder-style. It also makes them damn hard to conquer.

Yeah, but don't you think it's a little too much? I mean, conquering someone with Nox is painful, but it is doable if you figure out where the Nox is and make a hard push for that city (which is pretty cool--that can be a very difficult objective to shoot for if the Nox city is far away). But you've given the Sidar an uber-Nox, because the palace will just move somewhere else after you take the capital! You can NEVER get rid of their invisibility until you kill them off completely. It seems fitting lore-wise, but annoying gameplay-wise.

Also, this change removes a nice synergy the assassin-oriented Sidar had with founding Esus. Now they don't care if they found it or not, because the Nox does so much less for them.

 

[Rystic]

Yeah, but don't you think it's a little too much? I mean, conquering someone with Nox is painful, but it is doable if you figure out where the Nox is and make a hard push for that city (which is pretty cool--that can be a very difficult objective to shoot for if the Nox city is far away). But you've given the Sidar an uber-Nox, because the palace will just move somewhere else after you take the capital! You can NEVER get rid of their invisibility until you kill them off completely. It seems fitting lore-wise, but annoying gameplay-wise.

Also, this change removes a nice synergy the assassin-oriented Sidar had with founding Esus. Now they don't care if they found it or not, because the Nox does so much less for them.

For the time being, it's going to stay that way. I'm going to look at the Sidar after I do the Mercurians.

 

[Deon]

Well, I love almost everything except 2 things.

1) Free nox noctis from the start is a huge bonus. It is like to give hippus horseman as UU for warriors. Can you make a minor version, or probably to make it to affect thin cross only (i.e. "veil around cities")? Then it would be at least a bit reasonable.
2) Amurites vs Illians... Amurites are good as they are, but also they get +huge bonus against Illians. It's really cheap for me. I mean, I don't see a reason for it. Yes, they are long-time enemies of Illians, but Illians are long-time enemies of them too, so why did they suddenly become 1,5 times better than illians in brawling/fight while they're mages and Illians didn't get this benefit? Also there's no counter to Amurites but there's a counter to Illians: Amurites. While Illians aren't a counter for any other race. It seems a bit broken for me.

I am not trying to offend or argue, I am just trying to understand what made you to apply such huge balance changes? It looks like Amurites and Sidar are your favourite civilizations .

P.S. Oh and I like the flavor you added to Grigori. I am currently enjoying a game as Grigori, and it's my first game as Grigori in the last year. I was skipping them because there's a lot of fun in religions. Now I really enjoy them, and it's like a no-loss lottery: you wonder which race comes out next? P.S. I think the race change may happen on a unit upgrade, at least I think I saw it. Is there a way to avoid it?

Also this game has all religions except for AV (just 2 evil civs), and some AI outtech me, while it's just Monarch. Wow! This is great .

 

[Rystic]

Well, I love almost everything except 2 things.
1) Free nox noctis from the start is a huge bonus. It is like to give hippus horseman as UU for warriors. Can you make a minor version, or probably to make it to affect thin cross only (i.e. "veil around cities")? Then it would be at least a bit reasonable.

Sidar are a work in progress. After the Mercurians, I'm going to play with them more.

2) Amurites vs Illians... Amurites are good as they are, but also they get +huge bonus against Illians.

Maybe +40% vs Winterborn is a bit much. I recently played an Illian game and the Amurites bothered the hell out of me.

P.S. Oh and I like the flavor you added to Grigori. I am currently enjoying a game as Grigori, and it's my first game as Grigori in the last year. I was skipping them because there's a lot of fun in religions. Now I really enjoy them, and it's like a no-loss lottery: you wonder which race comes out next?

I think the Diverse trait and museums are my favorite changes.

P.S. I think the race change may happen on a unit upgrade, at least I think I saw it. Is there a way to avoid it?

That's odd. What unit did you upgrade?

Also this game has all religions except for AV (just 2 evil civs), and some AI outtech me, while it's just Monarch. Wow! This is great .

I applied the BetterEconomy mod, and it works great!

 

[Deon]

Maybe +40% vs Winterborn is a bit much. I recently played an Illian game and the Amurites bothered the hell out of me.

Bothered? Eh, you must've played with a bad civ player then. A friend of mine killed me with warriors. Simple warrior spam. It's like getting a free shock but better, because you still get a shock.

Also it's impossible to take cities guarded by firebows if you're an illian player.

 

[cabbagemeister]

I like Ratcatchers's guild as a national wonder, as long as it keeps the Esus requirement. But what happens if a player builds it and then switches away from Esus? I would like to see the building lost in that case (if possible), because I think it would be cheesy to be playing as Order and be able to build an army of HN units. Also, the one thing I strongly discourage is the ability to build HN priests, as the low healing rate is probably the major factor limiting the power of HN units.

 

[Tasunke]

maybe the Amurites "Kylorin's Legacy" promotion should grant +15, instead of +40, against winterborn. And maybe a negative value to the Malakim? Im just thinking of somehow making the bonus, although percentage based of course, to somehow be represented as Fire Damage, thus it would be resisted by those with Fire resistance. Im not really looking for a negative value thing tho.

 

[Rystic]

I like Ratcatchers's guild as a national wonder, as long as it keeps the Esus requirement. But what happens if a player builds it and then switches away from Esus? I would like to see the building lost in that case (if possible), because I think it would be cheesy to be playing as Order and be able to build an army of HN units. Also, the one thing I strongly discourage is the ability to build HN priests, as the low healing rate is probably the major factor limiting the power of HN units.

Good point. I'll fix it so in the next version Ratcatchers' Guild disbands if the player switches from Esus.

 

[scutarii]

Good point. I'll fix it so in the next version Ratcatchers' Guild disbands if the player switches from Esus.

Do not forget to make strong notes on it in pedia, changelog, EVERYWHERE, or you'll see lot of posts "where is my Ratcatcher's Guild,
dammit!"

 

[blade117]

Rystic,

Mabye I am just missing something; did you add the more events modmod? (random question) and if not, will you?

 

[Verdian]

Good point. I'll fix it so in the next version Ratcatchers' Guild disbands if the player switches from Esus.

Instead of disbanding, could you just take away all of its bonuses except the increased crime rate? You did invite a band of thieves into your city, and then take away what kept them in control... It would also dissuade people from following Esus, building a bunch of recon units with the RCG, and then changing religions. (assuming all of the negative crime rate events still exist...)

 

[Rystic]

Rystic,

Mabye I am just missing something; did you add the more events modmod? (random question) and if not, will you?

They're not in yet. Once I get a few other things out of the way, I'll add them (I'm going to add the dungeon stuff and the events together).

Instead of disbanding, could you just take away all of its bonuses except the increased crime rate? You did invite a band of thieves into your city, and then take away what kept them in control... It would also dissuade people from following Esus, building a bunch of recon units with the RCG, and then changing religions. (assuming all of the negative crime rate events still exist...)

I could do that with my aforementioned Python shenanigans. A neutered Ratcatchers' Guild would give +15 Crime and -10% .

 

[cabbagemeister]

I was playing the Elohim and I had some oddities with the Maelstrom unique feature after I got it in my borders. A unit (presumably a Guardian) would spawn on top of the Maelstrom about every twenty turns and experience the Maelstrom effect: random dislocation (in which case the Guardian died anyway because it can't survive in ocean) or random death. Here's the odd part: if the Guardian was dislocated, then I found that the Maelstrom no longer counted as my fourth Unique Feature in my borders, and my monks would only have +2 holy damage. However, if the Guardian was killed by the Maelstrom (i.e. I got the message "your unit has been lost in the Maelstrom"), then the Maelstrom WOULD count as a Unique feature, and my monks would go back to having +4 holy damage for the next twenty turns or so.

 

[Verdian]

I was playing the Elohim and I had some oddities with the Maelstrom unique feature after I got it in my borders. A unit (presumably a Guardian) would spawn on top of the Maelstrom about every twenty turns and experience the Maelstrom effect: random dislocation (in which case the Guardian died anyway because it can't survive in ocean) or random death.

That is hilarious. The Overlords work in mysterious ways!

Sounds like the Maelstrom needs a special sea serpent guardian.

 

[Rystic]

I was playing the Elohim and I had some oddities with the Maelstrom unique feature after I got it in my borders. A unit (presumably a Guardian) would spawn on top of the Maelstrom about every twenty turns and experience the Maelstrom effect: random dislocation (in which case the Guardian died anyway because it can't survive in ocean) or random death. Here's the odd part: if the Guardian was dislocated, then I found that the Maelstrom no longer counted as my fourth Unique Feature in my borders, and my monks would only have +2 holy damage. However, if the Guardian was killed by the Maelstrom (i.e. I got the message "your unit has been lost in the Maelstrom"), then the Maelstrom WOULD count as a Unique feature, and my monks would go back to having +4 holy damage for the next twenty turns or so.

I'll have to make Guardians ignore Maelstrom.

 

[cabbagemeister]

A bug:

The AI seems to be able to ignore the "HN units can only be transported in HN ships" requirement. Is this a bug with Tweakmod, or with base FFH? If its with the base game I'll go report it in the bug thread.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Could it be that it was a CoE assassin who had cast Mask, and then Declare Nationality after loading the boat?