[MOD] FFH TweakMod

[Tasunke]

Well, in the Monks -> into priests idea, please keep Monks as never obsolete. I still think they will have their usefulness, and I think its always a good idea to have some monks lying around.

 

[Verdian]

Well, in the Monks -> into priests idea, please keep Monks as never obsolete. I still think they will have their usefulness, and I think its always a good idea to have some monks lying around.

Definitely agree. At the very least, their free demon slaying promotions will be worth the upgrade cost.

 

[cabbagemeister]

A problem with the Guardian feature:

When Guardians spawn on an Elohim-owned Unique Feature, the tile becomes impassable even to Elohim units. This means that no road can be built on the tile, preventing access to many manas. Also, on Erebus maps it opens up the (unlikely) possibility of a Unique Feature on a chokepoint causing the Elohim to seal themselves into a valley with no exits!

 

[Rystic]

Forgive me for being persistent. Clusters of UFs happen rarely, and usually only on small or smaller (occasionally standard) maps when a person chooses the "All Unique Features" option. Considering this is a possibility only from checking a special option that the player should understand will potentially be very unbalancing, I don't think it should be considered heavily. But regardless, I think any civilization starting next a cluster of UF would get a large lead on their rivals. For the Elohim, starting next to a cluster already is very powerful using Tweak's current mechanics (free happiness, no barbarians early game, and extra defense).

I have just always pictured the Elohim as having outposts scattered around the world, protecting the holy sites of the world. Enabling it to be true is very appealing to me.

I think I finally understand where you're coming from with this idea. When you start the game, you see Unique Features across the map you want, but you don't want to incur the massive distance cost to get them. A possible solution to this would be to give the Elohim the option to make settlements near Unique Features. The option will be offered after you zix or more cities. Does this sound like a useful idea?

Well, in the Monks -> into priests idea, please keep Monks as never obsolete. I still think they will have their usefulness, and I think its always a good idea to have some monks lying around.

Good idea.

EDIT: Looks like Monk is already NeverObsolete.

When Guardians spawn on an Elohim-owned Unique Feature, the tile becomes impassable even to Elohim units. This means that no road can be built on the tile, preventing access to many manas. Also, on Erebus maps it opens up the (unlikely) possibility of a Unique Feature on a chokepoint causing the Elohim to seal themselves into a valley with no exits!

The seal themselves into exits thing is true, but whenever a guardian spawns, it automatically builds a road on the tile. I took that into account. I'm going to make the loss of a Guardian result in the tile having no level threshold, so all you'll have to do is disband it and your units can go through. The Guardian will respawn eventually.

EDIT: I want to rework this mechanic so units won't be blocked. I'm taking it out for the time being (mostly for the computer), but it'll be back in once I come up with some kind of spell to control it.

 

[scutarii]

Hey, Rystic, i've got an idea!

Speaking of elohim and unique features: more unique features elohim controls, more bonuses to elohim. But you did not want to go too far, too many bonuses for elohim-warmongering elohim, right?

But there is a way to balance potential warmongerism: war weariness. Every unique feature under elohim adds, lets say, 5% ( needs testing and balancing, some features might add more WW, some less) to elohim war weariness. It is logical: more precious stuff in your land, less interest in destructive wars.

Oh, and something with FFHpatch c - your tweakmod CTD on loading

 

[Rystic]

Hey, Rystic, i've got an idea!

Speaking of elohim and unique features: more unique features elohim controls, more bonuses to elohim. But you did not want to go too far, too many bonuses for elohim-warmongering elohim, right?

But there is a way to balance potential warmongerism: war weariness. Every unique feature under elohim adds, lets say, 5% ( needs testing and balancing, some features might add more WW, some less) to elohim war weariness. It is logical: more precious stuff in your land, less interest in destructive wars.

That doesn't sound like such a bad idea. I could give the Elohim 10%/20%/40% war weariness for 2/3/4 Unique Features. At that point they should be more of defenders, anyway.

Oh, and something with FFHpatch c - your tweakmod CTD on loading

One time I got a CTD, one time I didn't... this is gonna be a pain. Who did you try to play as?

 

[scutarii]

One time I got a CTD, one time I didn't... this is gonna be a pain. Who did you try to play as?

clean FFH2c, your latest tweakmod, "play now" ( mainly for clearing game settings-so everything random) - CTD.

twice.

 

[Rystic]

clean FFH2c, your latest tweakmod, "play now" ( mainly for clearing game settings-so everything random) - CTD.

twice.

What team did you play, though? I'm getting crashes with the Lurchurip, but not the Elohim.

 

[scutarii]

CTD: golems, good elves, dwarves, sidar, orcs, evil elves.

 

[Rystic]

CTD: golems, good elves, dwarves, sidar, orcs, evil elves.

All the teams with races, then. Although it seems that Winterborn and Nomad aren't effected... maybe it's a graphics thing?

Can you check if these teams work in vanilla FFH? They crash for me (except Sidar).

 

[Sephi]

it's a FFH patch c issue

 

[scutarii]

All the teams with races, then. Although it seems that Winterborn and Nomad aren't effected... maybe it's a graphics thing?

that's what I also thought. Maybe nomad and winterborn are not races but promos?

Can you check if these teams work in vanilla FFH? They crash for me (except Sidar).

the same thing.

Kael has already provided a fix.

 

[blade117]

will this or won't this work with FFH patch d?

 

[Rystic]

It works with Patch D.

 

[blade117]

thanks Rystic

 

[xalien]

I did a clean install of FFH2 and patch d, then the tweakmod and I have a game option shift - I've checked increasing difficulty but I'm getting high to low instead which is 1 line above, I need to check the option below it to get it.

 

[Chiyochan]

I always liked rise of man kinds decision to let you mine and build certain improvements without clear cutting forests.

 

[Rystic]

I did a clean install of FFH2 and patch d, then the tweakmod and I have a game option shift - I've checked increasing difficulty but I'm getting high to low instead which is 1 line above, I need to check the option below it to get it.

I'll have that fixed in the next update.

 

[Verdian]

I think I finally understand where you're coming from with this idea. When you start the game, you see Unique Features across the map you want, but you don't want to incur the massive distance cost to get them. A possible solution to this would be to give the Elohim the option to make settlements near Unique Features. The option will be offered after you zix or more cities. Does this sound like a useful idea?

That sounds like a really nice idea, actually. So a settler could have the option of creating a settlement near a UF. This would trigger the guardian and everything else, yes? I am not sure it needs a condition for upgrading to a city, though (you mentioned six cities as a requirement?). You built the settler, let the player upgrade whenever they feel comfortable. It is really just a mechanic to claim land before another player does without destroying your economy. Using Settlements is a convenient way to do it, and really simple.

My only concern is that, coupled with all of other changes, this is more than a mere tweak for the Elohim. Although looking at the Amurites, I am not sure that is such an issue anymore.

But there is a way to balance potential warmongerism: war weariness. Every unique feature under elohim adds, lets say, 5% ( needs testing and balancing, some features might add more WW, some less) to elohim war weariness. It is logical: more precious stuff in your land, less interest in destructive wars.

I am going to disagree with this. I think the way to balance the Elohim right now is to remove things that have been added, not add more. But even so, as protectors of the world, sometimes war is unavoidable. Yes, there are other ways to protect that do not require you to declare war, but chances are you are going to have a lot of enemies that want to declare war on you. But perhaps most importantly, this change just doesn't sound fun for the player. It introduces a late game added frustration. War weariness is already a fairly annoying, I am not sure any mechanic that makes it worse is for the better.

The seal themselves into exits thing is true, but whenever a guardian spawns, it automatically builds a road on the tile. I took that into account. I'm going to make the loss of a Guardian result in the tile having no level threshold, so all you'll have to do is disband it and your units can go through. The Guardian will respawn eventually.

EDIT: I want to rework this mechanic so units won't be blocked. I'm taking it out for the time being (mostly for the computer), but it'll be back in once I come up with some kind of spell to control it.

I am confused as to why units cannot enter the tile. Are Guardians still being held upon creation? I thought you were changing it so they could wander only in the players borders? Or is this just the mechanic chosen to prevent UFs from being pillaged? Seems like there would be easier way to just remove the option to pillage while a UF was in Ellohim borders than making the tile unaccessible. Sometimes you need to enter that tile.

On a completely different note, I recently played as the Lanun, and I noticed the Wrecker and decided to create a few. I am little confused at some of the choices made for them, though. Are they designed to be controllers of storms? That seems to be thematically appropriate, as well as the intent. You may want to change the following:
1) Make them air affinity instead of water. I thought it was off that their spells were air based, but they needed water mana to be strong. I also think it would be nice to have a unit emphasize the importance of the wind to the Lanun (it powers their ships and is granted by their palace, after all).
2) Give them access to Fair Winds. A group of Wreckers leading the fleets of the Lanun and guiding the winds to victory! ...or something.
3) This is a big maybe, but could you give them Fly? Druids can walk over any terrain, and as Wreckers are storm lords, it seems fitting that they be able to do the same.
4) Change their name? Wrecker seems like an odd choice (again, perhaps it is referencing something I do not know). It doesn't evoke any real picture in my mind of what this unit is or does.

 

[Rystic]

That sounds like a really nice idea, actually. So a settler could have the option of creating a settlement near a UF. This would trigger the guardian and everything else, yes? I am not sure it needs a condition for upgrading to a city, though (you mentioned six cities as a requirement?). You built the settler, let the player upgrade whenever they feel comfortable. It is really just a mechanic to claim land before another player does without destroying your economy. Using Settlements is a convenient way to do it, and really simple.

I dropped the six city requirement. To convert a city to a settlement, it needs at least a -4.00 distance maintenance cost. Settlements trigger Guardians, but only in the thin cross. This is actually implemented in the current download, if you want to try it (I updated earlier today).

My only concern is that, coupled with all of other changes, this is more than a mere tweak for the Elohim. Although looking at the Amurites, I am not sure that is such an issue anymore.

I think we're far beyond that. Although the mod remains true on only improving on old content. I want to make slower teams more interesting, eliminate micromanagement, and improve old mechanics so they flow better.

I am going to disagree with this. I think the way to balance the Elohim right now is to remove things that have been added, not add more. But even so, as protectors of the world, sometimes war is unavoidable. Yes, there are other ways to protect that do not require you to declare war, but chances are you are going to have a lot of enemies that want to declare war on you. But perhaps most importantly, this change just doesn't sound fun for the player. It introduces a late game added frustration. War weariness is already a fairly annoying, I am not sure any mechanic that makes it worse is for the better.

It's not as painful as it sounds. If you need to go to war, you can balance yourself by grabbing a few of the military civics. Also, with Tolerant, you can build a Palace that reduces war weariness. If you want to warmonger late-game, there are plenty of ways to do it.

I am confused as to why units cannot enter the tile. Are Guardians still being held upon creation? I thought you were changing it so they could wander only in the players borders? Or is this just the mechanic chosen to prevent UFs from being pillaged? Seems like there would be easier way to just remove the option to pillage while a UF was in Ellohim borders than making the tile unaccessible. Sometimes you need to enter that tile.

I got rid of not entering the tile because it was an incomplete mechanic, and fairly useless.

On a completely different note, I recently played as the Lanun, and I noticed the Wrecker and decided to create a few. I am little confused at some of the choices made for them, though. Are they designed to be controllers of storms? That seems to be thematically appropriate, as well as the intent. You may want to change the following:
1) Make them air affinity instead of water. I thought it was off that their spells were air based, but they needed water mana to be strong. I also think it would be nice to have a unit emphasize the importance of the wind to the Lanun (it powers their ships and is granted by their palace, after all).
2) Give them access to Fair Winds. A group of Wreckers leading the fleets of the Lanun and guiding the winds to victory! ...or something.
3) This is a big maybe, but could you give them Fly? Druids can walk over any terrain, and as Wreckers are storm lords, it seems fitting that they be able to do the same.
4) Change their name? Wrecker seems like an odd choice (again, perhaps it is referencing something I do not know). It doesn't evoke any real picture in my mind of what this unit is or does.

There was a whole topic dedicated to Wreckers/Sea Wenches. They originally had Waterwalking, which I should give them again (along with their Grove requirement). I may just lower their base strength and give them Air and Water affinity.