FfH2 0.13 Balance Recommendation

[TheJopa]

I would like to see something like that as a special mechanic for grigori, all GPP pooled and then GP is spawned in captol. If that is possible, I would really like that, it is better than generic increasing of GPP via buildings. Not to say how big advantage would it be for Grigori: Just create 1 mercahnt in each city and you have Great Merchant (Or Adventurer) in just few turns! So large advantage, that GP spawn poits should be doubled from 100/250 etc to 200/500... and they would still be powerful and unique

 

[ChaoticWanderer]

ok is werewolf suppsoe to spread to animals as of now i just fought a lion with a greater werewolf and the lion became a werewolf. seems odd to me.

second not sure where to put this but the game almost crashed and had a graphical error after my all Order kingdom founded the ashen veil. It had no unorder city which to put it in so it put it in the same holy city as the order. The game slowed down so much took me more then a minute to get the arrow to the ok and the pic for founding the veil was all mishappened looking like a mesed up pic of the sheims leader and not the ashen veil founding animation.

 

[Kael]

ok is werewolf suppsoe to spread to animals as of now i just fought a lion with a greater werewolf and the lion became a werewolf. seems odd to me.

Nope, I'll block on that.

second not sure where to put this but the game almost crashed and had a graphical error after my all Order kingdom founded the ashen veil. It had no unorder city which to put it in so it put it in the same holy city as the order. The game slowed down so much took me more then a minute to get the arrow to the ok and the pic for founding the veil was all mishappened looking like a mesed up pic of the sheims leader and not the ashen veil founding animation.

I can imagine that the engine had a little problem trying to find a place to stick that. Its good that it sorta worked itself out.

 

[Xuenay]

Just a sidenote: I don't know if it's just my imagination, but it would seem to me that "civ X is weak on this, let's add them a new building" would happen be a line that's seen pretty often. Just a few moments back I saw that the Kuriotates were getting happiness-boosting buildings, while now the Grigori are getting their own GPP boosters. Obviously there's nothing wrong with boosting civilizations that are obviously suffering very bad from something, and the Grigori are Philosophical so they *should* be able to generate lots of GPP - but be careful not to go overboard with it. Not *every* weakness a civilization has needs to be compensated for or they end up all playing the same - the Kuriotate happiness problem can already be greatly helped with the Fellowship, or Hereditary Rule, or Unyielding Order, for instance... (not necessarily saying that they *shouldn't* get an extra happiness booster, just using that as an example). It's good that civilizations have weaknesses, too.

 

[Kael]

Just a sidenote: I don't know if it's just my imagination, but it would seem to me that "civ X is weak on this, let's add them a new building" would happen be a line that's seen pretty often. Just a few moments back I saw that the Kuriotates were getting happiness-boosting buildings, while now the Grigori are getting their own GPP boosters. Obviously there's nothing wrong with boosting civilizations that are obviously suffering very bad from something, and the Grigori are Philosophical so they *should* be able to generate lots of GPP - but be careful not to go overboard with it. Not *every* weakness a civilization has needs to be compensated for or they end up all playing the same - the Kuriotate happiness problem can already be greatly helped with the Fellowship, or Hereditary Rule, or Unyielding Order, for instance... (not necessarily saying that they *shouldn't* get an extra happiness booster, just using that as an example). It's good that civilizations have weaknesses, too.

I agree 100%. But we have to make sure the civs strengths are really strengths. The Grigori should be able to have a viable GPP strategy, the Kuriotates should be able to grow their main cities beyond other civs. I recommended in the main thread (I think it was the main thread) that people may want to consider their civic choices if they play the kuriotates.

You are right that some people may play these civs in their normal fashion and find that they aren't very effective. Thats a result of the fact that they have different strengths and weaknesses. Players will have to adjust the way they play, or decide that certain civs arent for them.

Chalid actually mentioned hereditary rule today as we talked about the issue, which I am cool with. But I dont want them to be reliant on the Fellowship for successful play, they should be viable with any religion.

This is a playtest, we make something new, we listen to your input and then we adjust based on that. There will be a lot of reworking and it will be rare that we just release a new feature and not modify it in the next patch. The Luchuirp came out in 0.12, and got a lot more polished in 0.13. Thats a pattern that will probably continue.

 

[soibean]

I was playing as the balseraph and was going crazy trying to capture as many animals as possible in the early game before they stopped spawning and turned into orc spearmen and lizard men, but I noticed that as you capture more and more animals they add up and begin to cost you money...

Since the early game is the only time to capture these animals and they really only help you in the late game, you're paying for their upkeep for atleast 400 turns ( when I used my first animal ).
I know we covered the possibility of having big game animals or whatever you call it for later in the game, but can their upkeeps be tuned down or maybe nonexistant as to not strangle the economy of civs that go for the animals?

Also, the technology deception gives no bonuses, units, or spells, and leads to no other technology...

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Normally if you are researching a tech and you go over, the extra science is applied straight to the next tech you pick, right?
Could you make this also work for free techs from goodie huts? More often then not I get the one I am researching. It's still better than anything else I could pop from it, of course, but if my 3 or 4 or so previous turns of research weren't wasted, that'd be great.

 

[Kael]

I was playing as the balseraph and was going crazy trying to capture as many animals as possible in the early game before they stopped spawning and turned into orc spearmen and lizard men, but I noticed that as you capture more and more animals they add up and begin to cost you money...

Since the early game is the only time to capture these animals and they really only help you in the late game, you're paying for their upkeep for atleast 400 turns ( when I used my first animal ).
I know we covered the possibility of having big game animals or whatever you call it for later in the game, but can their upkeeps be tuned down or maybe nonexistant as to not strangle the economy of civs that go for the animals?

Also, the technology deception gives no bonuses, units, or spells, and leads to no other technology...

Espionage was supposed to require deception but for some reason it was assigned way fo the wicked instead. I'll change it in 0.14.

Keep in mind that the tech tree is a design to hang things on. I like the idea of honor and deception off of trade, but if we cant find a good use for it in a few versions it will be removed.

 

[ChaoticWanderer]

i found a barbarian kingdom in all its glory

in the battle i liberated ( you dont conquer barbaians you liberate them) a city with a fire mana allready being worked by the barbarians :0

also alot of my fighting is against the Barbarian Mercinaries *does that sound odd too you?*

still hunting the red dragon and the Axe both formed havent found either yet

but my balance issues is are barbarians suppose to work mana tiles? and are they suppose to hire mercinaries?

 

[Kael]

i found a barbarian kingdom in all its glory

in the battle i liberated ( you dont conquer barbaians you liberate them) a city with a fire mana allready being worked by the barbarians :0

also alot of my fighting is against the Barbarian Mercinaries *does that sound odd too you?*

still hunting the red dragon and the Axe both formed havent found either yet

but my balance issues is are barbarians suppose to work mana tiles? and are they suppose to hire mercinaries?

Yes to both questions. The barbarians in FfH are capable of a lot more than in vanilla civ. But functionally we had to allow them to work tiles to link to resources so they could access some of the higher tier units.

 

[Jono]

Normally if you are researching a tech and you go over, the extra science is applied straight to the next tech you pick, right?
Could you make this also work for free techs from goodie huts? More often then not I get the one I am researching. It's still better than anything else I could pop from it, of course, but if my 3 or 4 or so previous turns of research weren't wasted, that'd be great.

Same happens to me, especially in the early game. If you fixed it, it'd really improve my games (ofcourse it wouldn't always, as I don't usually pop techonologies, but when I do, I really rather they not be techs that I've been researching more than a turn or two).

 

[soibean]

I think that the Balseraphs civ is extremely unbalanced concerning its creation of Great People. Many of the buildings constructed by this civ give a modifier to Great Bard. In a game to 1000 turns, no matter how much I tried to warp it away from Great bard, I received one of these great people everytime because of the buildings in my cities.
I was dying to receive a great prophet so I can gain gold from the spread of the Ashen Veil but I couldn't do so. The most I received against the Great Bard was 40%.

 

[Chalid]

I think that the Balseraphs civ is extremely unbalanced concerning its creation of Great People. Many of the buildings constructed by this civ give a modifier to Great Bard. In a game to 1000 turns, no matter how much I tried to warp it away from Great bard, I received one of these great people everytime because of the buildings in my cities.
I was dying to receive a great prophet so I can gain gold from the spread of the Ashen Veil but I couldn't do so. The most I received against the Great Bard was 40%.

It is a civ full of Bards and Crazy People. What do you exspect?

 

[Chalid]

Speaking of espionage. I/We need a non combat unit that can spy in enemies cities. The combating units cant as they attack - and i think non og the stealth unit has the spiing ability so that you cant even spy at your "friends".

 

[Xanikk999]

I think the cost for the moneychanger is way too expensive.

250 hammers for the only building that increases gold by a percentage is just to much. Most of your low hammer/ high commerce cities take forever to build it.

Can you consider lowering the cost in the next patch please?

 

[Piemax^2]

I'd echo the comment about the GP route needing a boost. I usde GP's and wonders to get a cultural victory on small/noble, but it took longer and led to a lower score than the simple conquest path.

 

[Maniac]

The GPPpooling might be a good idea but it takes from the decision to really run a specialist approach and instead results simply in more random GP for people that do not care at all. So i think its not in the spirit of FfH.

If you want to make a GP strategy viable yet at the same time make sure it has to be a conscious decision that all others can't easily profit from, possible modifications could be:

• Increase the threshold for getting your first Great Person to, say, 300.
• Lower the GP point increase back to 100 per GP.
• Use Impaler's GPP pooling - nothing more annoying than knowing most of your GP points will be wasted due to the ever increasing city-based limit.
• Significantly increase the bonus you get for having the Philosophical trait, and for running Pacifism and Arete. Possibly reduce the normal GP production to two per specialist.

In other words, due to the increased first limit and low GPPP production without running Pacifism/Arete/Philosophical, harder to get a GP by just having a random specialist now and then, but if you focus on them, they can roll out easier.

 

[z00t]

after playing almost a full game as Luchuirp I think maybe some of the golems should be spread around the tech tree into other areas. For example, the tech to find mithril leaves u a short jump away from 3 bone golems, 3 arcane golems, 3 nullstone golems, and on the way to it I had to grab iron golems and gargoyles. I liked the old tech tree as you had to pick a tech path early to one or two golems which u had the resource for, it made for more diverse strategy. Mithril working also unlocks only arcane golems, which dont need mithril to be built so it doesnt feel right.

Barnaxus is a great idea, but possibly overpowered (armament molds and maxed promotions is I think +130% strength, plus gridlines/blasting promotion for every golem u build, which makes a 10 str iron golem look a lot stronger than a maceman). if he came later in the tech tree it might balance it out as he would have to take more risks in battle against stronger units to level up, and the promotions wouldnt be maxed out before u researched earlier golems.

One other balance thing, on a normal map with 6 civs I played against the Kuriatotes, Elohim, Bannor, Amurites and Lanun. First time its ever happened, but made for quite a dull game without a single evil civ, everyone was defensive napping and never getting more than cautious with each other. Is it possible to code it so that at least 1 evil and good civ always starts?

 

[soibean]

It is a civ full of Bards and Crazy People. What do you exspect?

I just meant that it makes it extremely hard for them to accomplish anything with this GP, and the free techs offered by them seem rather random.
I went from Drama to Message from the Deep

 

[BeefontheBone]

There might be a few misassigned or unassigned tech flavours in there, which is what I believe determines the types of GP who can pop a tech (if one of their type is available) as well as the caption in the recommendation text ("Recommended (Culture)" etc). It could just be that there weren't any culturey techs available to you at the time, of course.