FfH2 0.15 Bugs

[Sarisin]

I asked this before without a response:

I am getting lots of barbarian lunatics coming at me now. I think those are another OO unit, right?

What I don't understand, and what can really cause some problems, is that some of the barb lunatics have movement 1 and some have movement 2. There is nothing that indicates a mobility promotion on the ones with movement 2.

I guess they are simply spawned with the movement 2 - they sure are not gaining it through combat. So, this goes back to the old question of barbarian units being spawned with/without promotions.

How does it work?

 

[Yorgos]

Check the civilopedia. Lunatics have 50% chance to become enraged each turn, which you can see it as a promotion. Enraged gives an extra movement point, multiple attacks per turn, increased attack and decreased defence strength.

 

[Sureshot]

hahaha, you gave me the same 'fireball line' when I wrote about the barb lizardman water-walking.

I think fireballs are great, but remember, this was around yr. 400. The AI had Drowns, but I was pretty far away from getting a unit that could produce fireballs.

I suppose you could even build naval units in those small lakes, but again, I think the Drowns would take out the poor galleys you can build early on.

It seems a good strategy for the OO player is to slip a Drown or two in a lake adjacent to another civ's city and you will cripple his economy pretty good. With raging barbs who literally can cover almost every workable land tile you get to depend on the water tiles. It's just a good thing the barbs cannot spawn the Drown or you would really be up the creek.

you can't presently build boats in a city unless its connected to an ocean (requires atleast 1 ocean tile in the body of water).
there are actually 3 types of bodies of water in civ. bodies of water with less than about 10 tiles are considered fresh water lakes, and if thats all you've got access to then you can't even build lighthouses, much less boats. if the body of water is over about 10 tiles, but isnt wide enough anywhere to have an ocean square (i.e. non-coastal square), then it is considered a sea, and you can build lighthouses but no boats (except possibly fishing boats, i cant remember). if the body of water has ocean squares in it it is considered an ocean and you can build lighthouses and boats.

 

[SchpailsMan]

hahaha, you gave me the same 'fireball line' when I wrote about the barb lizardman water-walking.

I think fireballs are great, but remember, this was around yr. 400. The AI had Drowns, but I was pretty far away from getting a unit that could produce fireballs.

I suppose you could even build naval units in those small lakes, but again, I think the Drowns would take out the poor galleys you can build early on.

It seems a good strategy for the OO player is to slip a Drown or two in a lake adjacent to another civ's city and you will cripple his economy pretty good. With raging barbs who literally can cover almost every workable land tile you get to depend on the water tiles. It's just a good thing the barbs cannot spawn the Drown or you would really be up the creek.

I'm sure you mentionned this a couple of times, but I can't remember : what difficulty and speed are you playing at ? I love playing OO and I usually begin to swarm the world with Drowns at about year 125-150 at Prince, normal speed. By these standards, you'd have an easy time building up a tough defense way before year 400 (I guess you're playing Epic or Marathon, otherwise Drowns should be obsolete or at least easy to counter at that time, but even at Epic speed 400 seems really late for a Drown-rush to be really effective), and take out incoming Drowns a couple of turns after they've crossed your borders. Anyway, the key should be not to let them land on the lake : the AI won't promote their units to Mobility most of the time, you should be able to intercept them with hunters, and by the time they get OO you should be at least pretty close to getting either Rangers or Axemen (if not already).

Here, you're mentionning Clams, that suggests that we're not speaking of a Lake but real Coast tiles, which pretty much kills the 'interception' strategy. Then I guess your best move would be to buildup a few str3-4 units to protect your land tiles effectively while going to war against those OO believers. I don't think the AI will let their Drowns standing forever when you begin to thrash their homeland, and if they do that's two less defenders to counter you. The AI isn't good at defending, so you really should be able to damage it as much as they damage you (although I admit that Drowns are pretty powerful at the time they enter play, you might have to build a lot of axes and/or hunters).

I hope this doesn't sound harsh or anything. I consider the Drown a very powerful but still manageable unit. Defending against them should be hard, for sure, but so far I've not had that much trouble. Then again, I should be moving on to Monarch pretty soon, then my opinion may change radically

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Where'd this pasture come from?
Edit: Nevermind, the barbs beat me to animal husbandry.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Heh... beat you to Animal Husbandry. That's awesome. Can you see the tile's yields?

Edit: looked at the screenshot... apparently you can. Disregard that last question.

 

[Ranbir]

It happened on a mp game so I didn't have this python indicator on, sorry.

But when we play as Kuriotates, building a settlement caused that synch error. It wasn't a consistent one though, it just flashed...alot. One of us had to rejoin.

Secondly, my mate had an issue with his hunter being useless when loaded with hawk. Useless in he couldn't control the unit, movement, orders etc.

third, this debug even on traits keeps coming up.

These never came up before the j patch. As far as I'm aware in our mp games.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Birds will be fixed next release.

 

[naf4ever]

Not realy a bug but an exploit.

The Chaos marauders you get from conjurers with chaos II dont really have any downsides mainly because you can just delete them at the end of the turn. Perhaps you should make it so this isnt possible.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Ah, interesting, I hadn't thought of that. Is it possible to block deleting a unit?

 

[Sarisin]

Check the civilopedia. Lunatics have 50% chance to become enraged each turn, which you can see it as a promotion. Enraged gives an extra movement point, multiple attacks per turn, increased attack and decreased defence strength.

Thanks for the explanation, but it seems some Lunatics are getting the Enraged promotion each turn then. For example, I can track a barb Lunatic as soon as I see him on the screen - he has 2 movement pts every turn until he gets close enough to kill. It seems to be the same with those barb Lunatics with 1 movement pt. - I never see it change to 2 movement pts.

Based on my experience, the Lunatics are either 1 or 2 movement pts (has 1 or 2 with that foot icon) and that doesn't change. Also, I never saw a barb lunatic with any of the other features you mentioned - that's not saying much though as I try to kill them as soon as possible.

Thanks again.

 

[Sarisin]

you can't presently build boats in a city unless its connected to an ocean (requires atleast 1 ocean tile in the body of water).
there are actually 3 types of bodies of water in civ. bodies of water with less than about 10 tiles are considered fresh water lakes, and if thats all you've got access to then you can't even build lighthouses, much less boats. if the body of water is over about 10 tiles, but isnt wide enough anywhere to have an ocean square (i.e. non-coastal square), then it is considered a sea, and you can build lighthouses but no boats (except possibly fishing boats, i cant remember). if the body of water has ocean squares in it it is considered an ocean and you can build lighthouses and boats.

Thanks for your reply. I didn't try to build even a harbor (but could), but this city did have a lighthouse, and, in fact the Great Lighthouse which I built. I was afraid the Drown could somehow take out those icons in the lake.

I don't believe I ever saw ocean tiles in the Fantasy realm maps I play, but there are plenty of lakes. This one had 12 or 13 tiles in it so I guess it was a sea, and there was definitely a clam resource which I sent a workboat to. The Drown took this out first, then went to land when I killed them both.

 

[Sarisin]

I'm sure you mentionned this a couple of times, but I can't remember : what difficulty and speed are you playing at ? I love playing OO and I usually begin to swarm the world with Drowns at about year 125-150 at Prince, normal speed. By these standards, you'd have an easy time building up a tough defense way before year 400 (I guess you're playing Epic or Marathon, otherwise Drowns should be obsolete or at least easy to counter at that time, but even at Epic speed 400 seems really late for a Drown-rush to be really effective), and take out incoming Drowns a couple of turns after they've crossed your borders. Anyway, the key should be not to let them land on the lake : the AI won't promote their units to Mobility most of the time, you should be able to intercept them with hunters, and by the time they get OO you should be at least pretty close to getting either Rangers or Axemen (if not already).

Here, you're mentionning Clams, that suggests that we're not speaking of a Lake but real Coast tiles, which pretty much kills the 'interception' strategy. Then I guess your best move would be to buildup a few str3-4 units to protect your land tiles effectively while going to war against those OO believers. I don't think the AI will let their Drowns standing forever when you begin to thrash their homeland, and if they do that's two less defenders to counter you. The AI isn't good at defending, so you really should be able to damage it as much as they damage you (although I admit that Drowns are pretty powerful at the time they enter play, you might have to build a lot of axes and/or hunters).

I hope this doesn't sound harsh or anything. I consider the Drown a very powerful but still manageable unit. Defending against them should be hard, for sure, but so far I've not had that much trouble. Then again, I should be moving on to Monarch pretty soon, then my opinion may change radically

Thanks for this writeup - I learned a lot from it as I never play using OO.

I am playing at Prince on a huge fantasy map at Marthon setting. I guess it all depends on your luck with the goodie huts and the 'luck' of the AI too as to what techs you have. The most powerful units I had were hunters with quite a few XP (I was playing as RAI), but even they had trouble with the Drown. I had no access to copper for axemen or horses for horsemen/chariots yet. When I did get the Rangers I was OK, but that was some turns later. The Drown came a bit early to deal with I thought.

Another problem was that a different AI civ had control of the other side of the lake and allowed the Drown to pass through its territory into the lake. I could not send units there to attack the Drown or it would be war with my neighbor - I was playing aggressive AI and no open borders available.

As Sureshot mentioned this was a sea as there were 12-13 tiles and I definitely had the clam resource which I sent a workboat to. I also had a lighthouse and the Great Lighthouse wonder in this city.

I was working 4-5 squares of the sea including the clam, but as soon as the Drown jumped in, those squares were unavailable.

I always enjoy reading the strategy of others against certain units, civs, etc and appreciate yours. Thanks.

My apologies if this is not so much on a bug, but I am still a little confused what happened to the workable tiles in the sea when the Drown went in.

 

[Bad Player]

My Dwarven vault is giving -1 happiness when it should be neutral (103 gold).

It was OK the next turn however.

 

[Jean Elcard]

It takes always one turn to realise, that you reached a new vault level. I noticed this as well.

 

[Sureshot]

ya, otherwise itd have to change too much, like if you did a gold trade with another civ, or when you upgrade, much better to do it at the beginning or ending of your turn.

 

[Silverkiss]

It takes 1 turn to adjust to your gold amount; It´s normal.

 

[QES]

Not realy a bug but an exploit.

The Chaos marauders you get from conjurers with chaos II dont really have any downsides mainly because you can just delete them at the end of the turn. Perhaps you should make it so this isnt possible.

True, but I've always used my chaos mauraders with spell extension, make a lot of em, send em into enemy territory, let em go. Even if they turn barbarian they're doing your work for you. This is best with "Arcane, summoner" types, because you can get your mauraders further into enemy territory.
-Qes

 

[Kael]

Not realy a bug but an exploit.

The Chaos marauders you get from conjurers with chaos II dont really have any downsides mainly because you can just delete them at the end of the turn. Perhaps you should make it so this isnt possible.

The only people that can delete them are people with the summoner trait (and even they cant delete them on the last turn). If you want to delete the unit while you still have turns free you can, I didnt think it was worth blocking it for summoner traits with turns free since they can get them so far away in the meantime anyway.

 

[Grillick]

Thanks for the explanation, but it seems some Lunatics are getting the Enraged promotion each turn then. For example, I can track a barb Lunatic as soon as I see him on the screen - he has 2 movement pts every turn until he gets close enough to kill. It seems to be the same with those barb Lunatics with 1 movement pt. - I never see it change to 2 movement pts.

Based on my experience, the Lunatics are either 1 or 2 movement pts (has 1 or 2 with that foot icon) and that doesn't change. Also, I never saw a barb lunatic with any of the other features you mentioned - that's not saying much though as I try to kill them as soon as possible.

Thanks again.

Don't lunatics start with a free random mutation, as per the mutation ability of the OO priests? Do they have variable strengths, as well?