FfH2 0.31 Changelog

[mtagge]

I do believe that one is quicker because it is only checking the tile you moved to, not all the tiles around it.

So since I am trying to setup reactive fire to only occur if an enemy is in hostile territory, and only after that check the surrounding tiles for forts/cities, and only after that check for archers it should be less expensive right?

I'm getting pretty close, just having trouble with the check to see if the two players are at war. I should be able to crack it tonight though.

 

[Tarquelne]

No timeframe.

Good.

I'm switching my modmod to modular format mostly because you were putting out patches faster than I was re-doing all my tweaks.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Either you release it by tomorrow evening or I'll have to spend spring break working on a project that I'm behind on instead of on my modmod.

Are you trying to make me pass the class?


Any chance i could convince you to change how Homeland works? I really think that its bonus should be based on the percentage of the owner's culture on the tile instead of being a flat bonus for all territory under the civs control. The current way seems too good at leting them defend newly conquered territory, while my proposal would make them better at regaining cities they lost. It seems to fit much better for pacifist civs. Preferably the bonus would be much greater then it currently is on tiles that are 100% your culture, but would be much weaker where most culture is foreign. The bonuses could be added much like Stigmata adds its based on the AC (hmm.. that got me thinking that a promotion that gives a bonus based on the plot counter of an individual tile could be really cool too)

 

[Kael]

I have just started getting my hands dirty with the python aspects of Civ IV and I have a question about this:

Is there something inherent in the check for ancient forest Treants (which also uses the onUnitMove) command that is less expensive? I am trying to setup reactive fire from archers in forts, would an initial check to make sure it is in hostile territory make it less expensive?

The Treant check is bad too. Everytime you step the game checks to see if you walked into an Ancient forest (if you did it continues checking, but 99% of the time it stops there).

Im kinda okay with that since it rarely gets beyond that level. But its still darn expensive for what it does.

What MC was asking for is a python move function based on promotions. So you could apply a python function to a promotion then whenever the unit steps that function would run if the unit had that promotion.

That is even more expensive because on every unit movement the game would need to:

1. Cycle through every promotion (currently 237) to see if the unit has it.
2. If the unit does have it (we will assume this will trigger on an average of about 4 promotions per unit) check to see if the promotion has a python trigger.
3. If the promotion has a python trigger (this gets down to the extremely rare occasion when the unit has forest stealth or some such) run that function.

The really costly part is that first step. 237 promotion checks every time a unit moves from one plot to another (if the unit moved through 3 plots then we would be doing over 700 checks). Multiply that by the amount of unit moves per turn and you have a whole lot of CPU for that feature.

@MC: probably not by tomorrow unless I can beat this WoC issue into submission. And why not penguins? I wanted some penguins to hang out on one of my scneario maps (thats really the only reason they are in, though I added them as an event so they would be used in the epic game).

 

[Nimbus]

are we any closer to wolves upgrading into wolf packs, or lions into lion prides? or lion prides building lion dens? or Giant Spiders in the wilderness spawning baby spiders? or are all these being blocked by hidden nationality? and if so do animals really need hidden nationality at the cost of packs/prides/babies/dens?
also, when is the Sailors Dirge going to make a come back? and when I place it on a pre-made map it spawns warriors now instead of skeletons, will it ever go back to skeletons?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The changes to city defense look very promising. People have been asking for them since before I discovered FfH, iirc. I do wonder if the building defensive modifier really needed to be reduced though, considering that culture wouldn't add any more than 25%. Of course, if you plan to add more defensive buildings to then I'm all for it.



@ Nimbus: I don't think that the packs, prides, or dens are at all related to HN, but the ability of spiders to spawn babies is. Technically they can build dens already (if on the proper terrain), but they don't seem to very often. I'm not sure why packs aren't working, and I don't know why Kael hasn't added a spawning mechanism for the Dirge yet (preferably with an option to disable it, like he just added for Orthus and Acheron)

I've been playing around with the SDK from patch H and have been able to allow HN units to capture/spawn units from combat while HN. If Kael releases the uncompiled DLL from patch n soon enough, then the next version of my modmod will let HN spiders spawn babies, werewolves create ravenous werewolves, and taskmasters capture slaves.


I'm of the opinion that the WoC and OOS errors should be handled in a separate patch. When you add this much at a time and have so many fans waiting it doesn't seem right to let minor bugs delay it, especially if there is a possibility that the bugs are from vanilla BtS (as JJR implies that they could be in the bug thread). If you release it soon then our feedback and bug reports would probably be much more helpful in fixing WoC, OOS, and any other new bugs (especially if you go ahead and release the uncompiled DLL at the same time).

 

[TheJopa]

Hooray for the culture defense reducing! And stacking it with building defenses! Now we get to build the walls!

I do wonder if the building defensive modifier really needed to be reduced though, considering that culture wouldn't add any more than 25%.

It's reduced? I don't see it in the changelog...?

 

[Nimbus]

Originally Posted by Kael View Post
42. Cultural defense reduced from 0/20/40/60/80/100 to 0/5/10/15/20/25.
43. Cultural defense is now cumulative with building defense (instead of using the higher of the two).
44. Bear Totem doesnt offer buildling defense anymore.
45. Chancel of Guardians defense lowered from +25% to +20% defence.
45. Wall of Stone and Walls defense lowered from +25% to +20%.
46. Wall of Stone and Walls given +25% bombard defense.
47. Archery Range (and the Ljosalfar version) increased from +5% defense to +10% defense.
48. Bowyers now grants +10% defense.

while i am mostly in favor of this, isn't this going to make it easier to take over an enemy city? I mean 500 culture pre new patch was +60% defense, now it is +15% defense, add in a wall and you are up to +35% defense,I know it will be harder to bombard, but still, I will be more likely to take a highly promoted unit/high tier unit and just smash that city defender with his greatly lowered defensive value.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Walls, Walls of Stone, and Chancels of the Guardians had their base defense reduced by 5% when they were given Bombard Defense of 25%, but it seems that was removed since I first noticed the city defense changes in the change log.


Edit: I was responding to TheJopa, not Nimbus.

I do think that adding more levels of defensive buildings might be a good idea now, including cheap early game palisades and later Keeps or acropolises (actually I think it would be better to call these buildings Citadels and change the name of the improvements)

The AI weight for defensive buildings should probably be increased significantly.

I'm now undecided about my idea to create defensive buildings that (through python) create fort-like improvements on the tile for my modmod.

 

[Nimbus]

Walls, Walls of Stone, and Chancels of the Guardians had their base defense reduced by 5% when they were given Bombard Defense of 25%, but it seems that was removed since I first noticed the city defense changes in the change log.

your right, it has been updated recently, but my original thought is still valid, the computer has never been to keen on building walls, archery ranges, etc in all of its cities. So in the past when you attacked someone they had a + 60% city defense from culture, now it would be +15% (drools at the thought) if by some chance they built a wall it is still only +40%(will some bombard defense) still more attractive to attack than the old +60%.
perhaps culture should be 0/10/20/30/40/40 then culture and walls would be +55% with some bombard defense built in, which would make it harder to take, also perhaps the castle could make a comeback in the city, another defense provider, more flavor, etc.

 

[Mailbox]

48. Fort/Castle/Citadel defensive bonuses apply to units in cities within range.

Awesome. This is a great change, and helps the AI.

 

[Fenboy]

Awesome. This is a great change, and helps the AI.

Not to mention it gives you a reason to build forts at other places than chokepoints.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I wasn't aware that it wasn't already like that. It definitely should be. Now if we can get the defensive modifiers from forts/castles/citadels to display properly...


What is the "Scrub" feature?


Completely unrelated, but could make a (presumably SDK) change allowing human players to still build wonders that their AI permanent allies are also working on? The AI has a knack for choosing the worst possible city, which can get really annoying.

It might also be nice to add some way to cancel a permanent alliance (I can't see Basium sticking by him summoner if he chooses to switch to AV)

Oh, and of course I'd still like a way to make a promotion give bonuses based on the percent of their owners culture on its tile. (I think this is a much better implementation for Homeland than a flat bonus for all owned territory. It is more thematic, and promotes pacifism and the reconquest of your territory rather than defending your most recent expansions or conquests.)

The Scrub feature reminded me that I still want the thaw mechanic extended to features and improvements. I'd like a void CyPlot::setTempFeatureType(int /*FeatureTypes*/ eNewValue, int iTimer) and void CyPlot::setTempImprovementType(int /*ImprovementTypes*/ eNewValue, int iTimer) added.

 

[Nimbus]

Originally Posted by Kael
48. Fort/Castle/Citadel defensive bonuses apply to units in cities within range.

I wasn't aware that it wasn't already like that. It definitely should be. Now if we can get the defensive modifiers from forts/castles/citadels to display properly...

edit. as of right now they give a range 5/10/15 modifer to defense.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Well, on the bright side, the AI tends to do that anyway.

Hmm..how about letting you construct forts on city tiles, and not clearing forts/castles/citadels when you found a city?

 

[Nimbus]

range has to be kept in mind too. a fort only gives its bonus to units 1 hex away, castles 2 hexes away and citadels 3 hexes away. will multiple forts/castles/citadels provide a stacking bonus with each one built? I am just concerned that an established AI city will have now have a city defense much lower than it used to have and I do not recall anybody starting threads saying it is to hard to take over ai cities lately

 

[Kael]

range has to be kept in mind too. a fort only gives its bonus to units 1 hex away, castles 2 hexes away and citadels 3 hexes away. will multiple forts/castles/citadels provide a stacking bonus with each one built? I am just concerned that an established AI city will have now have a city defense much lower than it used to have and I do not recall anybody starting threads saying it is to hard to take over ai cities lately

No, defensive bonuses from fort/castles/citadels never stack with each other.

 

[Fenboy]

Any chance we can get an option to remove Barbatos from the game? He can seriously mess up tiny or duel maps singlehandedly.

 

[TheJopa]

I am just concerned that an established AI city will have now have a city defense much lower than it used to have and I do not recall anybody starting threads saying it is to hard to take over ai cities lately

Well AI would probably complain it's hard to take human cities Since AI rarely goes for city raider or melee units.

 

[Kael]

Moved all the changes to this thread (the next version will be 0.31, not a patch).

@MC: you mentioned some pak cleanup that should take place. PM me a list fo the specific things that need removed/changed in the PAK (but im not adding anything) to slim it down. Im goign to be rebuilding it for 0.31 so nows the time to make changes.