FfH2 0.34 Balance Thread

[odalrick]

About puppets.
In .33 (don't know about .34- havn't played much CIV lately), you could use Hemah with death III to summon a puppet, move it into position, turn it into a lich, have that puppet-lich summon a puppet, turn it into a lich, have that puppet-lich summon a puppet, etc.... Then all the lich attack. Thats a pretty powerful force to unleah in one turn.
Also next turn you can summon many many puppets and use those to summon wraiths or more liches.
I have never gotten twincast with hemmah though so i can't comment on that.

Yeah, you could conquer the whole continent the turn any balseraph arcane unit got Death III. Throw in Water II and it was the entire world.

I haven't tested if they fixed it in this version.

 

[Sarisin]

I think the XP cap should be removed completely. You have a chance to lose any combat, so you should always get an appropriate reward. We've all lost incredible odds battles before, and that sucks. But to win a battle for nothing isn't a lot better.

I agree, Keeper, but now, even if you have the Raider trait you don't get the XP for killing barbs beyond 100.

I will continue to campaign for an option that removes the cap on XP, but will likely never see that.

Still, there should definitely not be a cap when you kill a barb uber-hero IMO

 

[Sarisin]

Apropos barbarian heroes, what are you guys experiences with the new Orthus?
As I understood it, he will now actively seek out enemies instead of sticking to the wilds for a long time.

So, again, how does anyone else experience him in 0.34?
_____
rezaf

Rezaf, I never saw Orthus in my first two .34 games. He was killed pretty early after being created. However, I did get his axe much later in one game when I killed a damaged barb axeman who showed up inside my borders.

I did mention in another thread that it appears that barb heroes (I mentioned Buboes, one of the Four Horsemen specifically) seem locked into a target no matter where they are created. Buboes traveled from far away on a Huge map to get to my civ and attack me without stopping on the way.

It makes you wonder why the barb hero doesn't just start attacking where he is created? Yes, by wandering around he will pick up a few promotions, but this beelining for another civ far across the map seems like strange AI.

 

[BillSeurer]

I think that the (or rather, a) problem with Orthus and other tough barbarian units is that they never stop to heal. Or at least it appears they never do. They just gradually wear down until they are walking XP.

What they should do is what I do with my units; headed for the nearest wooded hill (or just hill or woods) and hunker down to heal.

 

[marioflag]

About Orthus he is always killed after a few turns he is created.Personally the only thing which could help him being more troubling is giving him a small horde of 1-2 goblins, or an Orc Spearman, and healing before fighting again

 

[scutarii]

I do not think that though, starting with increased difficulty, human player should get settlers ( and workers) from huts when game has reached to deity lvl.

 

[rusty217]

I made it so that Avatar grants Blitz and 100% healing from killing other units. I also increased Auric Ascended's strength.

I think this change should be made for the main mod aswell, Auric just isn't very powerful, I just had him killed by 10 elohim units, considering the size of AI armies and Auric's always defend ability, he seems kind of useless, while Drifa who is much easier to get can fight plenty of defencive battles and then when she shouldn't win the next one, she won't fight it so on your next turn she can be healed, unlike Auric who is dead by that time...

 

[Turinturambar]

About Orthus he is always killed after a few turns he is created.Personally the only thing which could help him being more troubling is giving him a small horde of 1-2 goblins, or an Orc Spearman, and healing before fighting again

I simply give him march and one first strike. Makes it pretty hard to deal with him.

 

[WCH]

Having the Godslayer spawn at a known plot is that if the Illians sit Auric on top of it, then there is no longer any point to having the Godslayer in the game. You'd have to kill AA to get the Godslayer to kill AA with it.

I think that the Godslayer would be an ideal use of the vanilla quest system. When AA is spawned, spawn the Godslayer somewhere random (maybe forced away from AA himself) and give all the opposing civs the quest (and location) to get it.

Eh? You think getting your ultra-unit to sit in the same square for the rest of the game and not rampage at all is a good solution? Ookaayyy...

Seriously, the purpose of the Godslayer is to stop Auric from rampaging. If he has to stop rampaging in order to prevent its use, guess what: it worked.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I do not think that though, starting with increased difficulty, human player should get settlers ( and workers) from huts when game has reached to deity lvl.

that's a bug I guess, I'll post it in the bug thread

and I agree about MC's suggestion about Auric

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Does anyone else think that Ice Elementals are extremely weak? Their affinity isn't very useful, considering that there are only 2 possible sources of Ice mana, the Illian Palace and the Letum Frigus. They will have either strength 2 + 2 cold (if you've lost the mana source), strength 2 +3 cold (if you have 1 ice mana, either Letum Frigus of the illian Palace), or strength 2 + 4 cold (if the illians have letum frigus).


By contrast, Spectres start with 3 strength, but can get unlimited death strength from their affinity, Einherjar always have strength 3 + 2 holy, and Beasts always have 4 + 1 unholy strength, plus the last 2 have the special ability of having their duration extended while none of them have their movement limited to certain terrains.



I personally don't like the fact that you can't build ice nodes. Of course, if you could my strength changes to Auric Ascended (moving him from 30 +30 cold to 40 + 20 ice affinity) would probably be too much.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

yeah, I'd like ice nodes to be buildable just like all the others ..

 

[it-ogo]

Maybe I have missed a discussion but I am strongly displeased that Illians have no +1 coin on the Ice riverside tile. That makes building temple of the hand a hard decision.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

on the barbarians/animals don't stop to heal issue: shouldn't carnivore animals heal by defeating living units and standing on livestock resource tiles? that would be quite cool imho

 

[Zechnophobe]

Does anyone else think that Ice Elementals are extremely weak? Their affinity isn't very useful, considering that there are only 2 possible sources of Ice mana, the Illian Palace and the Letum Frigus. They will have either strength 2 + 2 cold (if you've lost the mana source), strength 2 +3 cold (if you have 1 ice mana, either Letum Frigus of the illian Palace), or strength 2 + 4 cold (if the illians have letum frigus).


By contrast, Spectres start with 3 strength, but can get unlimited death strength from their affinity, Einherjar always have strength 3 + 2 holy, and Beasts always have 4 + 1 unholy strength, plus the last 2 have the special ability of having their duration extended while none of them have their movement limited to certain terrains.



I personally don't like the fact that you can't build ice nodes. Of course, if you could my strength changes to Auric Ascended (moving him from 30 +30 cold to 40 + 20 ice affinity) would probably be too much.

Spectres are generally better, but compare Ice elementals to Hosts or Pit Beasts. Also, keep in mind that we are talking about different things here. While a Mage with Ice magic can in face create an Ice elemental, the most common, and earliest, source of Ice Elementals is from Priests of Winter.

Direct comparisons get a bit hazy... would you compare a tiger to a spectre?

I do, however, agree that the limit on ice nodes is a bit odd. At the very least, maybe we could shift it so that the Ice Elementals have +2 Ice Affinity, but -1 Strength. Total would be the same for Ice 1, but 1 stronger if you netted Leturn Frigus.

 

[EmptyWolf]

Maybe I have missed a discussion but I am strongly displeased that Illians have no +1 coin on the Ice riverside tile. That makes building temple of the hand a hard decision.

The loss of +1 on riverside ice tiles combined with the severe hammer shortage from ice terrain often makes it seem counter-productive to construct a temple of the hand in every city as it seems they would want to do (with wanting the world in eternal frozen stasis and all). The lack of hammers can easily by countered by capitalizing on the food bonus, but that missing +1 on riverside tiles hurts. Especially early game and/or when nearby lots of rivertiles, mainly floodplains.

Another balance-issue is that the ritual that grants them three Priests of The White hand, gives them only three. Making the ritual repeatable 'can' be an answer although it detracts from the feel of a powerful ritual if it's repeatable. A better solution that's probably been pointed out lots already would be that Priests of The White Hand can be built in cities with a Temple of The White Hand once the ritual has been completed, thus the temples have another reason to be built, and the ritual is more than just getting three priests. It makes more sense if the Illians could train Priests of The White Hand, as they would do from a lore perspective and it isn't gamebreaking either.

I agree with Illian adepts having the unique ability to make ice nodes. And on the subject of adepts, as pointed out above: ice elementals are rather weak. I only find them useful as nothing more than cannon-fodder with dance of blades cast on them (what other use are they in mid-to-late game?). Their weakness wouldn't be an issue anymore if Illian adepts could build ice nodes, since currently the ice affinity ice elementals have is of questionable use only gaining from the Illian palace, and Letum Frigus if it's even ever secured by the Illians.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

Eh? You think getting your ultra-unit to sit in the same square for the rest of the game and not rampage at all is a good solution? Ookaayyy...

No, I think that the possible irony of having to kill Auric to get the Godslayer so that you can use the Godslayer to kill Auric ruins the mechanics of both Auric and the Godslayer.

Now if the Illians take the Godslayer from someone, I'm all in favor of that possibility. I just don't think it makes good sense for the Illians to be able to get the Godslayer without a fight.

 

[Psycho_Ivan]

A while ago somebody suggested giving Ice cumulative effects for each one you own. (Not sure who it was, though.)

Here's my take on what that could potentially be- a greater effect to the Ritual The Deepening. This would be especially beneficial to the Illians, but to other Civilizations, Ice Magic would be a dubious thing to have more than one source of, if even that. (I'm guessing that the most likely way they'd secure a source of Ice is by taking one away from the Illians.)

 

[Zechnophobe]

Suggest change to the Illians:

Philosophy let's them build Disciples of Winter, 3 strength + 1 Ice disciple class units that require a temple of the white hand to build. Once you have Priesthood, you can upgrade Disciples of Winter to Priests of Winter, if said Disciple is level 6.

You can still build the White Hand ritual to get 3 Priests of Winter.

 

[Mailbox]

Suggest change to the Illians:

Philosophy let's them build Disciples of Winter, 3 strength + 1 Ice disciple class units that require a temple of the white hand to build. Once you have Priesthood, you can upgrade Disciples of Winter to Priests of Winter, if said Disciple is level 6.

You can still build the White Hand ritual to get 3 Priests of Winter.

I like this, except I'd change it so that the White Hand ritual enables Disciples of Winter.