FfH2 Roleplaying Games [Thread III]

its not about playing only bottom tier ... its about playing as a builder, or playing a mid-tier with a slightly more complex strategy.

Its about not making games un-winnable, I suppose. (for the other side) ... although interstingly enough, Ive seen games where no-one wishes to declare war on the other, because each one mastered their own element, and victory seemed impossible for all sides xD (also there was a giant desert in between me and the other two survivors)
 
no ... its more about having fun than making sure we are all playing the same Chess.

Which is why I think if we started to care less about winning, it would be more fun .. maybe

I know when I play as the calabim I usually am more concerned with how awesome I can make my pet unit vampires.
 
When it comes time to war, everyone cares about winning. If you remember that last game when you were Kuriorates, I wasn't delving deep into winning, I was at peace with Luchiurp and was just biding my time.

But yeah a more casual builder style game, *might* help.
 
well, during that game, starting into it I wasn't thinking (Kurios are the best) I was thinking (holy crap fireballs are going to kill me) .... therefore ... yea. I was a little military happy that particular game.
 
Well you are a better player than me and I have never won a Tower of Mastery Victory and only won an Altar Victory long long ago. So really the only way to practically win is through Connquest, so I can't fault you for that. I do need to test sometime just how many fireballs it takes to decimate a stack.
 
Well you are a better player than me and I have never won a Tower of Mastery Victory and only won an Altar Victory long long ago. So really the only way to practically win is through Connquest, so I can't fault you for that. I do need to test sometime just how many fireballs it takes to decimate a stack.
Tower of Mastery is easy... You only need 4 total mana nodes(less depending on palace/wonder/UI mana). Just complete one elemental tower at a time, and before you start building the ToM turn off research and switch to a civic that allows gold-hurrying. ~5,000 gold and you'll finish it in 2 turns.
 
It's very rare for me to get 4 mana nodes, and I have to tech to Strength of Will. Possible, but usually faster and practical to just conquest.
 
It's very rare for me to get 4 mana nodes, and I have to tech to Strength of Will. Possible, but usually faster and practical to just conquest.
Huh. I guess different people just have different favorite strategies when it comes to games. As Tasunke said, I never declared war that whole game, though I did have a decent defence(Unfortunately it doesn't matter how many Gargoyles you have when Chalid's Pillar of Flame comes knocking on your door). For me, getting Strength of Will and other high-end techs is no problem, because were Tasunke and you are good at mastering your military, I'm good at mastering my economy.

Hmm... Maybe we should team up. I'll be in charge of domestic affairs, you guys handle expansion...
 
#1. what difficulty level do you normally play against the AI

#2. what difficulty level are you willing to play against while on a human team
 
Last RP game I played, last RP game I'll ever play, Khazad rush summoned Basium when both Capria and Elohim were on the map. Then tried to write it off as "I wanted to build the worlds finest army"

This wasn't the first time some meta meta head totally ruined the spirit of RP. RP should be about strange or creative strategies, and diplomacy you can not make with AI's.... not rush building the world's biggest SoD and writing a nice story afterward.

In the games when RP was first introduced, people went to war, and teamed up afterward. The strong helped the weak fend off attacks. Now it's like playing a typical Civ IV MP game with some dumb rules.
 
Last RP game I played, last RP game I'll ever play, Khazad rush summoned Basium when both Capria and Elohim were on the map. Then tried to write it off as "I wanted to build the worlds finest army"

This wasn't the first time some meta meta head totally ruined the spirit of RP. RP should be about strange or creative strategies, and diplomacy you can not make with AI's.... not rush building the world's biggest SoD and writing a nice story afterward.

In the games when RP was first introduced, people went to war, and teamed up afterward. The strong helped the weak fend off attacks. Now it's like playing a typical Civ IV MP game with some dumb rules.

Well and that's the problem of RP. People have different definitions. I see no reason why Bannor or Elohim are entitled to summon Basium over another civ.
 
really it depends on how the game plays out, and how many people are involved. Numbers and size really help to make a good rp game.
 
According to the lore, the Elohim are most entitled to summon Basium because the knowledge of how to build the Mercurian Gate has been a secret guarded by the Elohim royal family since shortly after Basium fell.

However, actually using the secret to unleash the Mercurians to wage war goes against everything they believe in (at least according to Einion, Ethne chose a more liberal interpretation of Sirona's pacifist teachings).


Of course, once the Mercurians had left the first gate they quickly spread the knowledge of how to build new ones to other peoples. I suspect that Ethne's death mean that Einion was left in charge of the Elohim, and that he quickly cut off ties with the Mercurians. Seeing how his religion in The Radiant Guard is the Empyrean, I suspect that the Malakim may have become his new allies. They would be the logical choice, as he was already on the Overcouncil with Varn/Decius/Chalid. Allying with Arendel wouldn't do, as she was loyal to Sucellus, whom Basium hates (mostly because he is jealous that Arawn gave that wimp the sphere of life after refusing to promote him from Archangel of Life to God of Life when he'd been begging for it for ages). He doesn't care much for Lugus either, but has come to respect the bravery of the high priest of that cowardly god.


Capria actually expresses to Falamar that Sabathiel has told stories of Basium and insists that he is not to be trusted. Basium may be fanatically Good, but he is also Lawless and thus is anathema to The Order.


I personally think that the Calabim may be the best allies for the Mercurians, at least mechanically speaking. I could see Falamar siding with Basium over Hyborem, although Alexis would not like it.
 
What religion would you prefer for these Pro-Basium Calabim to have? Runes of Kilmorph?

(runes seems like the best logical choice since Order /= basium and Empyrean /= calabim, at least from a lore perspective)

Although having both following Order might be what you meant. Since Bannor-Order is a whole different species altogether, and the only one with a one time direct connection to Sabathiel.
 
I see no reason why Bannor or Elohim are entitled to summon Basium over another civ.

original RP thread

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=306270

ignoring the story, you will see it was written by a guy not very good at FFH. If you can't see why Bannor or Elohim are entitled to summon Basium, or at least much favored over Khazad summoning him, then there really is no hope for playing a good RP game with you. I mean, most people who desire a good RP experience would agree that if Bannor or Elohim are playing, they should be the ones summoning Basium, and likewise if the Sheaim are playing, the Kuriotates or the Khazad should not be summoning Hyborem. It made complete and perfect sense back then.

I personally think that the Calabim may be the best allies for the Mercurians, at least mechanically speaking. I could see Falamar siding with Basium over Hyborem, although Alexis would not like it

Aren't both their favored religions Ashen Veil?

Basium may be fanatically Good, but he is also Lawless and thus is anathema to The Order.

He isn't so much lawless, as just fanatical. Which is why he is a good fit for Bannor, and I think it's pretty technical to try and say he fits with any religion better than Order. He is a crusader for good.
 
#1. what difficulty level do you normally play against the AI

#2. what difficulty level are you willing to play against while on a human team

Who, me?

1) Traditionally I play on Emperor, but the lats few games I've blown the AI out of the water, so I'm starting to transition to Immortal.

2) Anything? I tried playing Diety before, lasted till about 350 before the AI's massive tech lead and huge SoDs started overwhelming me.


Anyway, Runes of Kilmorph seems to be the best religion for Basium to me. Order, despite being popular to use with Basium, doesn't make sense since Basium is lawless, like MC said. Empyrean values wisdom and favors rehabilitation/redemption over punishment, which is the opposite of Basium's "kill everyone who isn't pure" approach. Rune values hard work and dedication, and in my mind relentlessly hunting demons is very dedicated, hard work... just not in the traditional sense.
 
No, Alexis is weighted towards AV, but Flauros is weighted towards OO and CoE. In the scenarios he shows a clear preference towards Esus, and explicitly states that he is no friend of any demon although he may use methods just as dark as theirs.


Basium broke the Compact, which while technically more part of the Force than Law sphere is still seen as a major offense by Junil and Sabathiel. He also abandoned his duty to serve his god, and harbors a deep hatred for the new god of this sphere. Basium is not so chaotic that he breaks the law for the sake of breaking the law, but he does not respect any authority save The One. (Of course, he has never met The One and probably misinterprets his will. The One never ordered the forces of good to fight evil, only to protect Mankind and guide it to enlightenment. Force may be needed to protect from direct assault from evil gods, but in general I think The One would side with Sirona and Jesus and say "do not resist the evil one.")


Kael has explicitly stated that Basium has no affinity towards any religion and is personally not religious, but is willing to use any faith (except those who worship demons...and he probably wouldn't like the worship of the god who stole the precept of life from him either) as a tool in his arsenal. (He is actually shown as praying to The One, so I'd say he has a deep faith in his personal conception of who The One is. Like Cassiel and all the gods he seems to think that One One does not want to be revealed, but unlike Cassiel he still thinks there is merit in worshiping him and nothing wrong with encouraging the worship of lesser gods as a tool in fighting the crusade he thinks The One wants.)

The only religion the Mercurians have in the scenarios is the Empyrean. Of course, Basium clearly expresses that he has never thought much of Lugus and is pleasantly shocked to find that his high priest has the nerve to strike against the throne of hell.

Runes fits Basium ok, not great, but probably better than the other religions. Kilmorph is generally too passive for him, but not when she gets really pissed off. The protective mother goddess did stop the last archangel to wage the godswar once a truce was called, but she also agreed to give the Luchuirp an ultimate weapon (The Mithril Golem) when they wanted revenge on a legion of the drowned (which are of course minor demons of the Overlords inhabiting the deceased bodies).

RoK however does not fit the Calabim well. Vampires may hone their skills over centuries, but they enjoy living luxuriously without ever doing an honest day's work, and seizing their chattel's rightful earnings. It is of course not as bad a fit as the Empyrean. As much as they like order (when they are on top) the Calabim hate justice, so following the Order in earnest does not fit. I can certainly see them liking the corrupt Order that persecuted Valin though. (I kind of suspect that the impious high priests of that era might have actually been members of the Council of Esus.)

I'm actually not sure Basium minds the Council of Esus so much. Sure, Esus is evil, but he doesn't really use demons much, even in his hell. He has also been known to betray the other evil gods on occasion, like when he sent the Svartalfar to save the word from Tebryn.



I kind of like pairing the Mercurians with the Illians too. Basium's desire to keep fighting the godswar is rather similar to the nostalgia of the Ice sphere. His hatred for Sucellus could drive him to admire the one who killed him. I often like to role play that Auric seduced Basium to the dark side by promising him that they would slay Sucellus together and Auric would give him the godhood he always deserved.
 
I kind of like pairing the Mercurians with the Illians too. Basium's desire to keep fighting the godswar is rather similar to the nostalgia of the Ice sphere. His hatred for Sucellus could drive him to admire the one who killed him. I often like to role play that Auric seduced Basium to the dark side by promising him that they would slay Sucellus together and Auric would give him the godhood he always deserved.
I like that pairing as well. It seems to me that Basium doesn't seem to care much for the people of Erebus - he just wants to kill demons, another thing that increases the synergy between the two.

The only problem is if the Gate is build in a city that also houses a Temple of the Hand... the city would starve.
 
original RP thread

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=306270

ignoring the story, you will see it was written by a guy not very good at FFH. If you can't see why Bannor or Elohim are entitled to summon Basium, or at least much favored over Khazad summoning him, then there really is no hope for playing a good RP game with you. I mean, most people who desire a good RP experience would agree that if Bannor or Elohim are playing, they should be the ones summoning Basium, and likewise if the Sheaim are playing, the Kuriotates or the Khazad should not be summoning Hyborem. It made complete and perfect sense back then.

When you add arbitrarily rules, you need to add arbitrary rules. If you want to make a specific rule stating specifically that no one but Bannor and Elohim can Summon Basium, then you need to make a game with those arbitrary rules

In fact even better is to just make your own mod, that arbitrarily restricts everything you consider against RP, that way we won't run into arguments with people ingame

However, let me point out, that we've had games that have gone "against the lore" and had a lot of fun. I mean the best game I've had I was playing Hippus who went Ashen Veil against Luchiurp who summoned Basium. That was one of the most epic and RPed games I (and others) have ever played. But according to you we must have gone against RP and ruined the game.

And you can take this a step further, you can prevent certain civs from building certain wonders or founding certain religions, and then say "Well, this civ can't declare war against this other Civ. Cardith attacking Einon? Against RP. You could go as far as to say "What, Sheiam wanting peace? Ridiculous, they want war, they must keep on attacking, it's RP"

Food for thought,
Bill
 
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