Filling in the gaps - Charting the optimal Civ Switches

[Ryansinbela]

I've noted down the following wonders for NA:

View attachment 740906

so yeah, it can definitely be done, and Inuit => Haida => Tlingit can definitely work as a line. (Haven't researched the Salish.)

Southern Africa is still bad though. Bantu and Shona/Zimbabwe can be added, they have a potential wonder each. But the Modern Civ is still difficult. You can potentially do Mandela's birthplace (Qunu) for Xhosa and the Bulawayo Kraal for Zulu but both of those are questionable in terms of Wonder status. The monument that could pass the most as a Modern Wonder for the Zulu or Xhosa is Maropeng, the visitor's centre to the Cradle of Humankind, but that structure was opened in 2005, which is too recent.

Most South-African structures are out of the question anyway. The Voortrekker Monument (a viable Modern Wonder) cannot be assigned to the Zulu, that makes no sense whatsoever. You'd have to call the Civ 'South Africa'.

The rest of Africa is fine if you just go by the rest of the World Heritage Sites.

What is this sheet you are making?

 

[Lord Lakely]

What is this sheet you are making?

Just the new civ suggestions from and for this thread, with potential traits and their associated wonders.

I find it easier to find the wonders and then work my way towards the Civs in regions that I'm not familiar with (like Africa and North America)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Southern Africa is still bad though. Bantu and Shona/Zimbabwe can be added, they have a potential wonder each. But the Modern Civ is still difficult. You can potentially do Mandela's birthplace (Qunu) for Xhosa and the Bulawayo Kraal for Zulu but both of those are questionable in terms of Wonder status. The monument that could pass the most as a Modern Wonder for the Zulu or Xhosa is Maropeng, the visitor's centre to the Cradle of Humankind, but that structure was opened in 2005, which is too recent.

Most South-African structures are out of the question anyway. The Voortrekker Monument (a viable Modern Wonder) cannot be assigned to the Zulu, that makes no sense whatsoever. You'd have to call the Civ 'South Africa'.

Voortrekker Monument could work for the Boers, if they ever get in. At this point I wouldn't count them out if an Exploration Dutch needed a post-colonial option.

As for the Zulu I think Bulawayo Kraal is the most likely, despite how not "wonderous" it might be.

 

[Ryansinbela]

Just the new civ suggestions from and for this thread, with potential traits and their associated wonders.

I find it easier to find the wonders and then work my way towards the Civs in regions that I'm not familiar with (like Africa and North America)

Very cool I want to see the other attributes

Lakota is another native Civ I want but what would their wonder be

 

[Phrozen]

I think the Great Trail could be a good wonder for the Iroquois, even if it isn't a building. It's still infrastructure, and can even thematically offer boosts to roads/railroads or city connections.

The Comanche Trail, Comanche War Trail, or Comanche Trace can be a wonder for the Comanche. Maybe using Big Spring, the Llano Estacado, or Comanche Springs for the on map graphic.

 

[ConspicuousFlower]

Another option for the Navajo could be the Navajo Nation Council Chamber. It may be a bit recent (it was built in the 1930s), but I think it works if they are a Modern Era civ, and it is recognized as a National Historic Landmark.

 

[moondog385]

It’s frustrating how in the game they decided to separate civs from leaders — thus making many civs possible for the first time (Mississippians, Minoans, Tiwanaku, Olmec, Bantu, etc.) — they handicapped themselves with the whole Associated Wonder thing as well as making you play each civ in a certain “age,” forcing them into places they don’t really fit.

 

[Ryansinbela]

It’s frustrating how in the game they decided to separate civs from leaders — thus making many civs possible for the first time (Mississippians, Minoans, Tiwanaku, Olmec, Bantu, etc.) — they handicapped themselves with the whole Associated Wonder thing as well as making you play each civ in a certain “age,” forcing them into places they don’t really fit.

Olmecs still has a problem due to most of their stuff not being fully known

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

At the very least we know exactly what their UI would be.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Okay, I'm taking my time to compile the potential African lines, and I'm trying to science it via several directions. For West-Africa, I've compiled a few city lists to see which is compatible with the Songhai, who basically have most of the important cities on the area already present:

Ghana and Nok, which are the best two candidates for the antiquity civ were such a pain to compile for: I basically ended up following a Mississipian system where most names near the read are names of ethnic groups descended from their civs. It's not how I like to do my lists, but i feel like it's necessary to plan this out.

Six Civs in Africa is perhaps a bit to crowded, but it's theoretically possible at least: you can do a line for Nigeria and then another for 'Not Nigeria'. Mali is out though. All of their main cities are already used by Songhai. It's already a pain to avoid too much overlap between Songhai and Ghana/Wagadu. If we do Ghana and then also add Mali, it's not going to work in Civ7 terms. Two Civs competing for the same cities can work, but three is too many. We have to choose ONE of Ghana/Mali, and then save the other for Civ8. I don't really know what the second Exploration power would be for West Africa, but I'm gravitating towards Benin/Yoruba or the Kanem Bornu.

Oyo (listed here as 'Yoruba'), Dahomey and Ashanti are all viable for Modern though, with little overlap, and each offer something unique to the table. (Oyo offers continuity with Songhai, Dahomey has the Gbeto's and Ashanti has the most distinct cultural customs).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Oyo (listed here as 'Yoruba'), Dahomey and Ashanti are all viable for Modern though, with little overlap, and each offer something unique to the table. (Oyo offers continuity with Songhai, Dahomey has the Gbeto's and Ashanti has the most distinct cultural customs).

I feel like Dahomey might be out considering its main claim to fame is being involved in the slave trade. I feel like the Asante would shine in this age.

 

[Xandinho]

Curiously, the Ashanti fit remarkably well into all the elements that Civ7 requires: strong leaders (with more than one notable option, in fact), more than one unique unit option, and excellent candidates for the associated wonder, such as the Aban Palace and the Manhyia Palace. If the Ashanti are not added to Civ7, it would be a big oversight on their part.

Another civ that also meets Civ7’s requirements very well (though from a different region of Africa) is the Merina.

For me, the basic progression of Nigeria/West African coastal civs would be: Nok > Benin > Ashanti, with Nok being the most challenging choice here. While those three would already be enough for me, a fourth option, if I had to choose one, would be Oyo, which could work either in the Exploration Age or the Modern Age.

 

[Ryansinbela]

Merina and Ashanti would be cool

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Another civ that also meets Civ7’s requirements very well (though from a different region of Africa) is the Merina.

What age do you think they could be? Going by the timeline I think Modern is good, but maybe they fit better gameplay wise in Exploration, similar to what they did with Hawaii.

 

[Ryansinbela]

What age do you think they could be? Going by the timeline I think Modern is good, but maybe they fit better gameplay wise in Exploration, similar to what they did with Hawaii.

Modern is where they belong

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

Curiously, the Ashanti fit remarkably well into all the elements that Civ7 requires: strong leaders (with more than one notable option, in fact), more than one unique unit option, and excellent candidates for the associated wonder, such as the Aban Palace and the Manhyia Palace. If the Ashanti are not added to Civ7, it would be a big oversight on their part.

Unique Civics and Traditions are also far from lacking in sources; there's so much information available about the government, economy, culture, military... You could put a civ together, zero compromises or shortcuts, if just a fraction of the information out there existed. It honestly surprises me that they haven't found a place on the roster yet.

They are represented by perhaps the strongest City State in Civ VI, though - that's something.

 

[Xandinho]

What age do you think they could be? Going by the timeline I think Modern is good, but maybe they fit better gameplay wise in Exploration, similar to what they did with Hawaii.

Modern fits better; it would only make sense for Exploration if they were considering a modern Madagascar. Merina could come from an East African coastal civilization, like Kilwa.

Unique Civics and Traditions are also far from lacking in sources; there's so much information available about the government, economy, culture, military... You could put a civ together, zero compromises or shortcuts, if just a fraction of the information out there existed. It honestly surprises me that they haven't found a place on the roster yet.

They are represented by perhaps the strongest City State in Civ VI, though - that's something.

Ashanti is certainly the best-documented African civilization that has never appeared in the franchise as a playable civ. The information on Ashanti is so rich that it's surprising they have never been included.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Here's my idea for a fully fleshed out Africa:

Maghreb line:
Garamentes and Carthage (in game)>(Berbers)> Morocco ( I had this list with the Middle East civs. Still trying to think of a good Exploration name that combines the Maghreb and Al-Andalus)

Interior West Africa line:
Ghana>Songhai (in game)> Kanem Bornu (didn't realize it lasted until 1902)

Coastal West Africa line:
Nok or Ife>Benin> Asante

Central Africa line:
Bantu (hopefully enough information to make a generic one that could lead to many civs included below)>Kongo/Ndongo>Buganda (in game)

Horn of Africa:
Aksum( in game)>Somalia>Ethiopia

East Africa:
Exploration Swahili or Kilwa>Merina (Modern)

Southern Africa:
Exploration: Zimbabwe or Mutapa> Modern Zulu

Upper Nile (These other than Antiquity Egypt might be unlikely):
Egypt (in game) Kush (Antiquity)>Nubia (Exploration)>Misir (Modern Egypt)

(Dis)Honorable mention that I could see happening because of Age switching:
Boers (from Exploration Dutch Republic)

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

the Hausa Fulani-Sokoto Caliphate

What?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

What?

Not sure why I thought they were Hausa. Might have to change that.

I saw the name Hausa-Fulani but realize now that they are a mixed group that happened when the Hausa and Fulani assimilated and lived within the Sokoto Caliphate. Sorry for the confusion.