Filling in the gaps - Charting the optimal Civ Switches

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Still trying to think of a good Exploration name that combines the Maghreb and Al-Andalus

I think Andalus should be its own thing

 

[Xandinho]

Maghreb line:
Garamentes and Carthage (in game)>(Berbers)> Morocco ( I had this list with the Middle East civs. Still trying to think of a good Exploration name that combines the Maghreb and Al-Andalus)

Marinid would be my choice for the Berbers of the Exploration Age. The challenge would be making it sufficiently distinct from the Abbasids.

Upper Nile (These other than Antiquity Egypt might be unlikely):
Egypt (in game) Kush (Antiquity)>Nubia (Exploration)>Misir (Modern Egypt)

I think we should have at least one more Nubian civilization. Nubia is one of my favorite newcomers in Civ6, and when it was announced, it really surprised me. I think Antiquity Kush might be somewhat unlikely, since they might feel it overlaps too much with Egypt and Aksum (though I wouldn’t mind at all, I’d love to have all three). But I believe a Nubia from the Exploration Age has a reasonable chance, possibly represented by Makuria or Alodia. I don’t know much about them, so I’m not sure which one would be more viable.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think Andalus should be its own thing

I guess Garamentes/Carthage>Andalus>Morocco could work.

Marinid would be my choice for the Berbers of the Exploration Age. The challenge would be making it sufficiently distinct from the Abbasids.

I want to include things like the Alcazar and maybe the Alhambra as a wonder at least, so I wanted to include Muslim Iberia in some form. Calling the civ Al-Andalus might be the best option.

I think we should have at least one more Nubian civilization. Nubia is one of my favorite newcomers in Civ6, and when it was announced, it really surprised me. I think Antiquity Kush might be somewhat unlikely, since they might feel it overlaps too much with Egypt and Aksum (though I wouldn’t mind at all, I’d love to have all three). But I believe a Nubia from the Exploration Age has a reasonable chance, possibly represented by Makuria or Alodia. I don’t know much about them, so I’m not sure which one would be more viable.

Having a full line might be asking for too much but I think one of them is doable.

 

[Xandinho]

I want to include things like the Alcazar and maybe the Alhambra as a wonder at least, so I wanted to include Muslim Iberia in some form. Calling the civ Al-Andalus might be the best option.

I’d prefer to separate them and have both, with Marinid as something cultural and Granada as militaristic, but perhaps that’s a bit greedy on my part. Al-Andalus encompassing everything could work—I just hope the Berber North Africa isn’t forgotten this time.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Thinking about Central Asian lines:

Sogdians -> Bukhara -> Kokand
Kushan - > Ghaznavids/Ghurids ->Afghanistan (Durrani)
Xiongnu -> Mongolia -> Dzungar

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I just hope the Berber North Africa isn’t forgotten this time.

That's why I put Garamantes in Antiquity so they could be more like a proper Berber civ with their foggaras, horsemen, and their desert living.
Any Exploration North Africa civ will have the hard time distinguishing themselves from the Abbasids especially since Madrasas and Mosques are off the table as unique infrastructure. As long they don't go generic like North African Madrasa and North African Mosque.
And I'd like to save something like the Kasbah or Medina Quarter for Modern Morocco.

 

[Ryansinbela]

That's why I put Garamantes in Antiquity so they could be more like a proper Berber civ with their foggaras, horsemen, and their desert living.
Any Exploration North Africa civ will have the hard time distinguishing themselves from the Abbasids especially since Madrasas and Mosques are off the table as unique infrastructure. As long they don't go generic like North African Madrasa and North African Mosque.
And I'd like to save something like the Kasbah or Medina Quarter for Modern Morocco.

Why did the devs make Garamantians Exploration

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Any Exploration North Africa civ will have the hard time distinguishing themselves from the Abbasids especially since Madrasas and Mosques are off the table as unique infrastructure. As long they don't go generic like North African Madrasa and North African Mosque.
And I'd like to save something like the Kasbah or Medina Quarter for Modern Morocco.

Ribat, Buhaira, Koubba, Zawiya, take your picks

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

Still trying to think of a good Exploration name that combines the Maghreb and Al-Andalus

They might not fit the exact time period you want to represent, but the Alhomads or potentially even the Almoravids were Berber-led empires that ruled exclusively in those regions.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

The Exploration Maghrebi civ could be the Saadian dynasty and the Modern the Alawite, the only thing is that the dynasty of modern pre-colonial Egypt was also called Alawiyya

 

[socratic]

Its very likely they will go with a dynastic name, but the civ will act as a general "Berber" civ. The Abbasids have a lot of generic arabic traits and could just have easily been called "Arabia".

 

[moondog385]

Still trying to think of a good Exploration name that combines the Maghreb and Al-Andalus)

I think Berbers works as well as anything else. I would have them represent the Almoravids and Almohad Caliphates so it covers al-Andalus.

As for the other African regions, here’s how I’d have them set up.

West: Ghana (Antiquity), Benin, Kanem-Bornu (Exploration), Ashanti, Oyo (Modern)

North: Kush (Antiquity), Berbers (Exploration), Misr (Modern)

East: Ajuran, Kilwa (Exploration), Ethiopia, Merina (Modern)

Central/South: Mutapa, Kongo (Exploration), Zulu (Modern)

I think Bantu would be difficult to pull off but if they could do it, I’m all in favor. I would prefer the Mississippians be the “stretchiest” civ that we have in the game — not that I think anything they do is historically unsound per se.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Why did the devs make Garamantians Exploration

Did they?

They might not fit the exact time period you want to represent, but the Alhomads or potentially even the Almoravids were Berber-led empires that ruled exclusively in those regions.

That's sort of what I was thinking. The problem is I can't choose which one.
If I had to choose between the two, I might go with the Almohads only because their associated wonder could be the Alcazar in Seville.

I think Bantu would be difficult to pull off but if they could do it, I’m all in favor. I would prefer the Mississippians be the “stretchiest” civ that we have in the game — not that I think anything they do is historically unsound per se.

They might be difficult, but they logically would be a great starting point for most of Sub-Saharan Africa. If @TheGhostEnthusiast could design them, I'm sure the devs could. Or they could just steal the ideas.

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

Did they?

They're an Exploration Age Independent Power... for some reason. I'm aware that you don't believe the Ages of IPs have to be consistent with an eventual Age placement as a full Civ, but it's a bizarre choice even outside of that question.

 

[moondog385]

Did they?

Yeah, they’re an Exploration IP. Definitely one of the weirder IP-Age matches to me. Haudenosaunee was as well, then I figured they might want to have them lead into America because of the potential influence the Iroquois Confederacy had on the Constitution. I think that has problematic implications — having America replace the Iroquois — but I suspect that could be the thought process.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think that has problematic implications — having America replace the Iroquois — but I suspect that could be the thought process.

I have a feeling that most, if not all, of the indigenous civs in the Americas will be replaced with post-colonial nations in the Modern Age.

 

[Ryansinbela]

I have a feeling that most, if not all, of the indigenous civs in the Americas will be replaced with post-colonial nations in the Modern Age.

Unless they add some modern Native American rep, which they should (Comanche, Lakota, Tlingit, Navajo, etc)

 

[Xandinho]

As challenging as it may be, I still believe it’s possible to design a Bantu civ. I’m sure they have excellent historians for that, but speaking in a more superficial way and with the limited knowledge I have, I can still point out several elements that a Bantu civ would almost certainly include: expansionism, settlers and scouts with increased movement, a higher settlement limit, greater focus on towns rather than cities, interaction with IPs, and something related to trade. From all of this, civic and tradition bonuses could be drawn.

What would remain for more in-depth work would be finding their unique infrastructure, unique military unit, and unique civilian unit. Humankind was bold and designed Bantu, giving them the Mupíà Fields as their unique infrastructure, though I don’t know anything about it and therefore can’t say how appropriate it is. But they should definitely try, because the Bantu are one of the civs that fit Civ7’s concept extremely well. I actually think Nok would be even more challenging than the Bantu, and I also believe they should try Nok.

 

[Ryansinbela]

As challenging as it may be, I still believe it’s possible to design a Bantu civ. I’m sure they have excellent historians for that, but speaking in a more superficial way and with the limited knowledge I have, I can still point out several elements that a Bantu civ would almost certainly include: expansionism, settlers and scouts with increased movement, a higher settlement limit, greater focus on towns rather than cities, interaction with IPs, and something related to trade. From all of this, civic and tradition bonuses could be drawn.

What would remain for more in-depth work would be finding their unique infrastructure, unique military unit, and unique civilian unit. Humankind was bold and designed Bantu, giving them the Mupíà Fields as their unique infrastructure, though I don’t know anything about it and therefore can’t say how appropriate it is. But they should definitely try, because the Bantu are one of the civs that fit Civ7’s concept extremely well. I actually think Nok would be even more challenging than the Bantu, and I also believe they should try Nok.

Someone actually designed a Bantu concept yesterday

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Unless they add some modern Native American rep, which they should (Comanche, Lakota, Tlingit, Navajo, etc)

They should. But I could easily also see them put those in Exploration. Arguably the Shawnee could have been in Modern too.