Final Fixes

[Calavente]

I'm not so sure about that, Calavente, could just be a matter of my playstyle, but even if I intentionally surround myself with 'early' hero civs, If I can make it to tier two units, I can hold them off until I get one of those later heroes. And at that point, even if they're well promoted, quick work can be made of them, especially if they have no access to bronze/iron/mithril weapons.

My basis for wanting the promotions is really from watching Korrina grow along the tech lines.As the Red Lady, She starts out as a 6str unit (4 + Iron Weapons), gains another 2 from Heroic promotions, another 2 at Fanaticism, and Mithril increases that by another two over the Iron. That makes her a STR 12 unit (and one you have to be near the capital and essentially ready to eliminate the scions altogether to kill at that), and all you really have to do for it, is gain a few levels early on while she's stronger than anything else on the field.
With Korrina the Black Lady, she gains some impressive ability to safely enfeeble entire stacks of troops while munching on their flesh to stay healthy, leaving them wide open for slaughter by your ghostwalkers or (dare I say) Horned Dread?

Other early Metal Weapon using heroes don't get quite as strong, but do at least have that much to increase their strength. And yet, I can still build a Berserker, give him Mithril, hide him behind a pair of Champions or a Phalanx and tear one of those high experience early heroes to shreds. Possibly sooner if I just mass produce champions with a couple promotions.

I mean fer crissakes, what's to stop Gilden Silveric from picking up a new Bow at Bowyers (and again when they get Marksmen) and thus being stronger? It boggles the mind why a civilization would allow their own Hero to be ineffectively equipped when compared to their regular military. The Grigori can pump out an Archer hero at relatively the same time frame, and they'll eventually turn him into a massively promoted Marksman that slays things from tiles away.. (or at least my Grigori do...) so why shouldn't the Elves (known for their marksmanship and archery skills) be capable of the same thing?

I'm not saying that the balance of the gameplay wouldn't need to be monitored and adjusted... but I don't find the current gameplay to be all that balanced in the first place...

The growth, is a chance to make them more interesting units, and give them more flavor, making them more fun to play.

@The Flame8: Not to worry, I'll be around. I start back to school next monday, but I'll check back at least every couple days. Keep up the good work. I'm pretty sharp with XML, but absolute pants (for the moment) with Python. I'm working on that in school though, so soon. lol I'll take a look at Acheron if I can find the right file, but I'm guessing it's something in the .py files related to capturing animals/beasts.

well. it is because you are much stronger that the AI.
I never said that the AI was good with early heros. only that early heros are powerful.
without the early heros, instead of "holding them off" you'll have crushed them. so their hero was useful. However AI doesn't know how to use it effectively.

further you are comparing AI with early heroes vs YOU with late heros... that is not a way to compare.
try the reverse : AI with late hero and you with early hero : you'll crush them and they won't have time to get the late heroes (well that's the case for my games : when I play with an early hero... the AI never get to late heros.. they die before.)

the way you have to compare is:
AI with late hero (ie no hero early) vs same AI with early hero.
OR
you with early hero vs you with late hero.

the point with Korinna is that:
early it is a weak hero (way weaker than bambur or gilden). and mid game it become a bit stronger that early heros.

so you could say that korinna is only a mid-game hero... (not an early one)..; the "early" version is there only for "lore" and for allowing you to chose either red or black.

further: using berserk to kill bambur... is normal !!!! bambur is tier II.5 (III with the heroic promotions) while berserk (plus some champions or phalanx) is tier IV focused on attack !!!
so you say that it is disappointing that a tier II.5unit can upgrade to tier III and be useful for more than half of the game but can be crushed late game by using two tierIV units (or one tier IV and 2-3 tier III)?
to me that proves that bambur is very strong...


as for your "late game heroes still crush gilden" : you are talking about DRAGONS and godly avatars !!!!
it should be normal !

I'm more worried about your upgraded gilden being able to kill easily Magnadine or Teutotrix, or Hemah, or the warmachine....

the Strength or early heros is that they come early !

So IMO, if you propose "upgrades" to early heroes....

I propose you to allow the late heroes to come earlier (maybe in a tone-down version)... so thay can rack-in xp and be able to have a chance when fighting your early heros upgraded.

 

[The Flame8]

On both of your sides, I'm staying on not changing it. The AI are stupid with heroes and that is just how the Civ game works. You of course are going to be better with them. Early heroes should be weaker and with units like Bambur, Korrinna the Red, etc. you can do serious damage with one unit early in the game and you think it should be stronger!!!!! Late game units should be stronger as technology progresses in the game. I side with Calavente as this would just overpower heroes for the player and do little for AI.
Flame out

 

[xalien]

RifE is really great, but it has one giant problem - painfully long turn times. Until that is fixed (if at all possible) I doubt I'll be touching it, no matter how nice are other fixes and tweaks.

 

[The Flame8]

They don't take as long as Civ 5 turns, just saying. And to get faster turns just use less civs.

 

[Gangrin]

Not a bug per se, but still tremendously annoying "feature": Creation 3 autoupgrade (Creation mastery IIRC), which gives your mage twincasting BUT also confers 33% miscast chance on any spell. It's possible that it's just me being unlucky, but there was a game in which my archmage didn't cast a single spell for twelve turns. TWELVE. All that glorious miscasts. While i admit that removing that miscast chance altogether will make Creation 3 too powerful, but without doing something we are forced into situation when you should never, EVER take this promotion. Is it possible to make this 33% chance apply only on second cast?

 

[A Moon]

Not a bug per se, but still tremendously annoying "feature": Creation 3 autoupgrade (Creation mastery IIRC), which gives your mage twincasting BUT also confers 33% miscast chance on any spell. It's possible that it's just me being unlucky, but there was a game in which my archmage didn't cast a single spell for twelve turns. TWELVE. All that glorious miscasts. While i admit that removing that miscast chance altogether will make Creation 3 too powerful, but without doing something we are forced into situation when you should never, EVER take this promotion. Is it possible to make this 33% chance apply only on second cast?

Ah, I remember the good old discussions they had about that. I think your last sentence was what the feature was supposed to actually be; the permanent 33% miscast is actually a glitch. The entire "master of blah" promotions were going to be removed before RifE kind of stopped.

I suggest either making only the second cast have a chance of miscasting (which, if I recall correctly, isn't really do-able), or change the problem to something less worthless.

 

[Granix]

Ah, I remember the good old discussions they had about that. I think your last sentence was what the feature was supposed to actually be; the permanent 33% miscast is actually a glitch. The entire "master of blah" promotions were going to be removed before RifE kind of stopped.

I suggest either making only the second cast have a chance of miscasting (which, if I recall correctly, isn't really do-able), or change the problem to something less worthless.

Similarly, the Master of Ice spell seems to be the same as the Ice 3 spell. They have the same name, same icon, and seem to do the same thing.

 

[The Flame8]

They should be different, but that's way beyond my realm of expertice to change.

 

[The Flame8]

Just an update about 0.4
My major changes right now will be about the barbarians, depending on the poll results.
I also will be trying to change those traits so they work.
Plan is to also get the file eventually a complete download so people don't have to download the original and Snarko's before mine.

I'm really looking for more ideas for the next release. I'm also looking for some people to help fill in text for civopedia that is missing.

 

[A Moon]

Temporarily changing Mastery of Creation to do nothing until you/someone else is able to replace it with anything better would be an improvement.

 

[Jheral]

It would, yes. None of the Master promotions are balanced tbh, but that one is just horrific.

 

[Granix]

Well, Master of Creation is right in the XML. It has lines for whether it is automatically acquired, the fact that it gives twincast, and the fast that it gives a miscast of 33%. Any of those could be changed easily.

To make only the second spell give a miscast, then I think the mastery would need to be changed to an ability you need to activate. You wold only activate it after casting your first spell, and then it would give you the promotion with the 33% miscast and twincast. (Actually, I can't remember but I am assuming twincast lets you cast two different spells, and not two of the same spell. If it's supposed to be two of the same spell then I can't think of any way to make that work).

 

[A Moon]

That's a good idea. Twincast isn't needed though, as you can just add a new promotion that gives +1 to spells cast per turn with a 100% chance to expire.

 

[The Flame8]

I'll just try to disable it. It is complex coding, but do you know how to disable it without it messing up the game?

 

[A Moon]

I'll just try to disable it. It is complex coding, but do you know how to disable it without it messing up the game?

Change the effects of the promotion to do nothing? That way people could still get omniscience et all.

 

[Granix]

Actually, the tag that gives extra spells seems to actually be called Twincast. If you wanted to disable it, I would change these two lines:
<bTwincast>1</bTwincast>
<iChanceMiscast>33</iChanceMiscast>
to
<bTwincast>0</bTwincast>
<iChanceMiscast>0</iChanceMiscast>

Though that seems boring to me.

 

[The Flame8]

So, do you want it disabled or not. I'm not familiar with how the spells and magic are coded, so I need a definite green light and recommendations before I go through with it.

 

[Granix]

Personally, I'm just going to change <iChanceMiscast>33</iChanceMiscast> to <iChanceMiscast>16</iChanceMiscast>. Keeps about the same average as what was intended, and still keeps it interesting.

 

[The Flame8]

Ok that sounds goods. I'll change that for the next release.

 

[Gangrin]

with all due respect, this does not seems like a proper solution. There is still a chance that your first spell would not work - making your mage SUDDENLY not so reliable with that promotion. you may say "Hey, it's just 15% now, that's ok". Yeah, right. 85% my archmage cast a spell in this turn. 52% all of my 4 archmages cast a single spell. Personally, i wouldn't mind even a 50% miscast, but only on a second cast. I am not a coder, so i don't know how much of an effort it is, but still the idea with an additional promotion after casting is much better. If it is too complex, why not give a "spell" like that of a Dreameater (or what is that Sheaim archmage name) that allows to cast more times per turn, but which imposes that miscast chance?