Firaxis' Shape Of Things To Come: BE2 or Civ VII?

[blackbutterfly]

A pinned tweet may reveal Firaxis future plans:
Kevin Schultz on Twitter: "We’re hiring New year. New Energy. New job! Openings at Firaxis include: -Character Modeler -Associate Producer -Gameplay Engineer -Marketing Producer -UI Designer -Jr DevOps Engineer -Graphics Programmer and a lot more! https://t.co/mIm9xowSei https://t.co/AdSrR5Ep31" / Twitter

https://boards.greenhouse.io/firaxis?gh_src=4ebe047e3us

Eagle eyed civ fanatics may want to examine the job listings with a fine tooth comb...

Most seem to be Unreal Engine 4 (UE4) related, so maybe pointing to their forthcoming title Midnight Suns? IDK

But I have found a couple that may relate to Civ:

1. Gameplay Engineer ("Passion for turn-based strategy games").
2. User Interface Designer ("Passion for strategy games; particularly Civilization and XCOM...")
3. Character Modeler ("Ability to research and direct their own work to create a historically authentic asset", "An interest in or advanced knowledge of history or world cultures is a plus")

Anyone else find anything?

 

[pokiehl]

These are all absolutely bog standard job descriptions for a videogame developer. I don’t think there’s much of anything to read into here.

 

[bbbt]

I'd say the character modeler is the only with specific Civ related bullet points:

• An interest in or advanced knowledge of history or world cultures is a plus
• Ability to research and direct their own work to create a historically authentic asset

Other tidbits from the role:

• Experience with Miniature or tabletop gaming development/ model creation is a plus
• Broad modeling experience that includes clothes, props, creatures, and vehicles a plus

Tho the perspective of both Civ and Xcom are basically use a 'miniature or tabletop gaming' perspective, so I dunno that read anything into that, I don't think Warhammer: Civ is coming.

''Creatures" is also interesting - I don't know if that's a job specific term that usually is used to encompass people, or if it specific indicates something broader (aliens, mythological beings), as excited about I am about the idea of "Civilization: Mythology"

Finally, iirc this is a role that usually comes on board in the later portion of the game development (after a lot of the engine work is done).

 

[Sherlock]

Here's a video with more speculation:

Bottom line is no one really has any idea what they'll do.

I wouldn't mind a re-mastered 4 or 5.

 

[Zaarin]

From a marketing perspective, Civ7 certainly makes the most sense to me as it's bound to make the most money, albeit it also requires the most resources. If we see a spinoff, I think we can say with confidence it will not be BE2. I don't know how it performed in terms of sales, but I do know that it was generally poorly received, which is bad for selling a sequel. That being said, I think Civ7 has been in development for a couple years now at least, and I'd put my money on moving straight to Civ7 without a spinoff.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Regarding the tidbit about creating TT gaming miniatures, one of the art team leads lamented on Twitter that everyone she knows is getting into painting miniatures due to the pandemic. Not sure if that means anything, but it seems they see a correlation between the hobby and the occupation. Or they just want more people to play Warhammer with.

 

[Zaarin]

Regarding the tidbit about creating TT gaming miniatures, one of the art team leads lamented on Twitter that everyone she knows is getting into painting miniatures due to the pandemic. Not sure if that means anything, but it seems they see a correlation between the hobby and the occupation. Or they just want more people to play Warhammer with.

All the people complaining Civ6 is too much like a board game may want to hold onto their hats. But I wouldn't be surprised to find a similar correlation between playing 4X and other strategy games and playing tabletop strategy/war games (I don't, but...) as between RPG video games and tabletop RPGs (I play both).

 

[Xur]

If previous release cycles are to be trusted, then civ7 is in production and the next game is a stand-alone game based on civ6. Most likely Colonization.

Colonization is probably released this year and then civ7 in 2023. That makes it 7 years of civ6 - the longest gap in the franchise. That’s taking covid and the last patch of civ6 into account.

 

[Haig]

The thing about miniature gaming makes me think of tactical combat, maybe next civ has some sort of combat screen like the old Civilization: Call to power.

 

[Zaarin]

The thing about miniature gaming makes me think of tactical combat, maybe next civ has some sort of combat screen like the old Civilization: Call to power.

I hope not. I hate tactical combat in 4X games. I'd say more likely it's for developing the future of XCom or just as a general interest in strategy.

 

[MrRadar]

I give exactly 0 efs about whether it’s BE2 or Civ7 or Col3 or something else. All I care about is whether they’re going to fix the terrible buggy and code lacking mess that currently is Civ VI. If they leave Civ 6 as it is like now, Imma just assume they gonna do even (much) worse with whatever comes next. In which case I have some cash with me which FXS/2K will never see.

 

[bbbt]

Tabletop Minatures + "creatures" actually made me think of DnD first. I don't actually think there's been an officially licensed DnD world 4x game?

That doesn't really work with "historically authentic assets" though. I also dunno how much dnd would bring to it versus just a generic fantasy setting.

 

[Zaarin]

Tabletop Minatures + "creatures" actually made me think of DnD first. I don't actually think there's been an officially licensed DnD world 4x game?

DnD's worlds are basically every dumb fantasy trope ever invented tossed together without a hint of irony or self-awareness; is there really enough there to make a strategy game from?

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

DnD's worlds are basically every dumb fantasy trope ever invented tossed together without a hint of irony or self-awareness; is there really enough there to make a strategy game from?

You can make a BAD strategy game out of anything - or nothing, for that matter, either one would describe DnD . . .

For over 10 years I was a guest lecturer at Origins, the GAMA (Gaming Artists and manufacturer's Association) Convention every year. The Association set up what they called a 'War College' with 'real' military historians lecturing on real military history, since someone had noticed that 99.9% of all games were based on military history - even 'fantasy' games were almost all based on bad medieval military history.

And when it came to Bad Medieval History, I referenced DnD a lot, but by no means exclusively: in both fantasy board/card/RPG games and 'historical' board/miniatures games there are some really, really bad 'standard chestnuts':

1. The multiple-warhead heat-seeking terminally guided longbow arrow, which hits everything it is even vaguely pointed at, penetrates all armor up to and including Chobham, and instantly deals a fatal wound to any living thing no matter how big and powerful it was a second before the arrow hit it.
2. Full plate armor using, apparently, Stainless Steel alloys and available from the moment Rome fell to any knight or warrior, even those without any visible means of economic support who are wandering the countryside. This stuff is also proof against fire-breathing dragons, crossbow bolts, getting trampled by horses or elephants, but only occasionally protects you against - you guessed it - the MWHSTG longbow arrow.
3. The peasant spearman. He really should be wearing a Star Trek red shirt, because he has never been known to hurt anyone or anything but serves mainly as a target for every other weapon ever designed by mortal man, elf, or goblin, including toothpicks and sharp blades of grass.
4. Link Mail Armor. Actually never used to make armor, but solely to produce bikinis for young ladies with the approximate muscle tone of jello.
5. Swords. They sing, scream, drink souls, blood, demons, burst into flame, glow in the dark, but somehow never need a great deal of Maintenance, like sharpening, rust-proofing, or, what was common in Medieval and earlier swords, straightening after they've been used to hack something apart.
And illiterate Barbarian Warriors seem to always have access to really good swords in enough quantity to equip every man, boy, or girl in the tribe despite not even having enough leather or cloth to keep everybody in clothing through the winter. The economics of it all passes understanding . . .

 

[Zaarin]

You can make a BAD strategy game out of anything - or nothing, for that matter, either one would describe DnD . . .

For over 10 years I was a guest lecturer at Origins, the GAMA (Gaming Artists and manufacturer's Association) Convention every year. The Association set up what they called a 'War College' with 'real' military historians lecturing on real military history, since someone had noticed that 99.9% of all games were based on military history - even 'fantasy' games were almost all based on bad medieval military history.

And when it came to Bad Medieval History, I referenced DnD a lot, but by no means exclusively: in both fantasy board/card/RPG games and 'historical' board/miniatures games there are some really, really bad 'standard chestnuts':

1. The multiple-warhead heat-seeking terminally guided longbow arrow, which hits everything it is even vaguely pointed at, penetrates all armor up to and including Chobham, and instantly deals a fatal wound to any living thing no matter how big and powerful it was a second before the arrow hit it.
2. Full plate armor using, apparently, Stainless Steel alloys and available from the moment Rome fell to any knight or warrior, even those without any visible means of economic support who are wandering the countryside. This stuff is also proof against fire-breathing dragons, crossbow bolts, getting trampled by horses or elephants, but only occasionally protects you against - you guessed it - the MWHSTG longbow arrow.
3. The peasant spearman. He really should be wearing a Star Trek red shirt, because he has never been known to hurt anyone or anything but serves mainly as a target for every other weapon ever designed by mortal man, elf, or goblin, including toothpicks and sharp blades of grass.
4. Link Mail Armor. Actually never used to make armor, but solely to produce bikinis for young ladies with the approximate muscle tone of jello.
5. Swords. They sing, scream, drink souls, blood, demons, burst into flame, glow in the dark, but somehow never need a great deal of Maintenance, like sharpening, rust-proofing, or, what was common in Medieval and earlier swords, straightening after they've been used to hack something apart.
And illiterate Barbarian Warriors seem to always have access to really good swords in enough quantity to equip every man, boy, or girl in the tribe despite not even having enough leather or cloth to keep everybody in clothing through the winter. The economics of it all passes understanding . . .

I love this entire post so much. If you haven't, I recommend checking out the RPG Pendragon. It (self-consciously) condenses the entire Middle Ages into Arthur's 40 year reign but otherwise tries to achieve semblance of historical accuracy (or at least accuracy within the confines of the tropes of the chanson de geste). It's a little too much simulation for me (same for its brilliant but oh-so-rules-choked bronze age fantasy cousin RuneQuest), but the attention to detail is just splendid.

Civ has certainly been guilty of some of these. We've certainly seen some figurative if not literal chainmail bikinis (CivRev seems to have been extra thirsty), and we've also had the ill-clad-but-well-armed barbarians right up to the present iteration. Here's hoping the franchise continues to grow in historical wisdom...

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I love this entire post so much. If you haven't, I recommend checking out the RPG Pendragon. It (self-consciously) condenses the entire Middle Ages into Arthur's 40 year reign but otherwise tries to achieve semblance of historical accuracy (or at least accuracy within the confines of the tropes of the chanson de geste). It's a little too much simulation for me (same for its brilliant but oh-so-rules-choked bronze age fantasy cousin RuneQuest), but the attention to detail is just splendid.

Civ has certainly been guilty of some of these. We've certainly seen some figurative if not literal chainmail bikinis (CivRev seems to have been extra thirsty), and we've also had the ill-clad-but-well-armed barbarians right up to the present iteration. Here's hoping the franchise continues to grow in historical wisdom...

I've never been a great fan of RPGs, although I frequently indulge in personal Role Playing in other games, like playing a rabid trading game in Anno 1800 as the character Nicolas van Rijn - and extra points for anyone out there who knows what set of Science Fiction stories he's from - or playing Civ IV where they allowed me to name my own leader and playing frequently as Asterix the Gaul or Ivan the Tolerable of Russia.

I've been thinking, in fact, of the idea of how to add more Narrative to Civ VII, and more elements of Personal Role-Play to the game. Still fleshing out details, but maybe later this weekend, a Fat Post . . .

 

[Bibor]

You can make a BAD strategy game out of anything

That's because a real strategy game would have you spend 3-9 months in recruitment, training and logistics, with the actual battle lasting one day (if you really stretch it out).
Most of the bullets and arrows would miss, probably like 90% of them. Instead, you would lose soldiers of dysentery, plague and other nasty diseases. Your officers would defect to bribery and treachery, your units would desert if odds are bad.

Not to mention that with all this you would probably achieve very little, if anything, since most battles result in a witdrawal of one side. Capturing most cities would take months or years. If you somehow manage to capture them, plunder would make them barely usable. Usually burned down and plundered it to the bone. If you were really lucky, skilled and "the person at the right moment in the right time" you would send all those random treasures back to your capital just to pay off the ridiculous debt you went into to pay for the campaign in the first place.

And if you somehow got even more lucky and your campaign yielded a net positive (income), you and/or your children will eventually be murdered by your wife, vizier, ambitious general or trusted guardsman.

That's IRL warfare for you.

P.s. This is also why it's so hard to make an RPG or strategy game out of Lord of the Rings books. The story is just too realistic, even by non-fantasy standards. Whatever they did, they could've easily failed in it, and it was an one-off series of lucky events. Even after decades of preparation, just a few decisive battles ended the war that lasted for just a few months, the (human) population already being completely exhausted from decades of skirmishes.

 

[blackbutterfly]

I'd say the character modeler is the only with specific Civ related bullet points:

• An interest in or advanced knowledge of history or world cultures is a plus
• Ability to research and direct their own work to create a historically authentic asset

Other tidbits from the role:

• Experience with Miniature or tabletop gaming development/ model creation is a plus
• Broad modeling experience that includes clothes, props, creatures, and vehicles a plus

Tho the perspective of both Civ and Xcom are basically use a 'miniature or tabletop gaming' perspective, so I dunno that read anything into that, I don't think Warhammer: Civ is coming.

''Creatures" is also interesting - I don't know if that's a job specific term that usually is used to encompass people, or if it specific indicates something broader (aliens, mythological beings), as excited about I am about the idea of "Civilization: Mythology"

Or "creatures" could be aliens!

This is for the: "Character Modeler" role. I hadn't bothered to look at the non-engineering positions. Soz. So thanks for that. Well done!
OP edited/updated.

 

[aieeegrunt]

Here's a video with more speculation:

Bottom line is no one really has any idea what they'll do.

I wouldn't mind a re-mastered 4 or 5.

I’d love to play 4 again. If I had a PC I’d probably just do a modded Civ6 for my 4X needs

All the people complaining Civ6 is too much like a board game may want to hold onto their hats. But I wouldn't be surprised to find a similar correlation between playing 4X and other strategy games and playing tabletop strategy/war games (I don't, but...) as between RPG video games and tabletop RPGs (I play both).

The think that enfuriates me is if you want to make a board game, make a board game

I can forgive cheesy gamey SOD breaking minimaxing nonsense in a board game because of the limits of cardboard tech, but like your making a game on a freaking computer. Take advantage of that

Well at least we have Fog of War

 

[Zaarin]

The think that enfuriates me is if you want to make a board game, make a board game

I can forgive cheesy gamey SOD breaking minimaxing nonsense in a board game because of the limits of cardboard tech, but like your making a game on a freaking computer. Take advantage of that

I don't mind some of the board-gameyness, especially in terms of aesthetics, but in terms of gameplay I agree that it could take much more advantage of its medium.