First 50 turns

[intellectsucks]

So what are the most important things to do in the first 50 turns?

What starting build orders?
How many cities?
What techs?
What am I not thinking of?

 

[Izuul]

General guidelines:

-Typically worker first unless you are on the coast and then sometimes work boat first is better.

-Grow city a little while building (typically) a warrior. Build first settler at like size 3. Sometimes size 2 or 4, or even 5 is better, but size 3 is most common for 1st settler. Keep the site and the settler secure - use a warrior to do so if needed.

-Settle the strongest spot available that's reasonably close with 1st settler. Grabbing something like gold/gems, high food, etc is good. Closer to capitol is usually better than further away. Try to put important resources in the first ring of your city unless you have a Creative leader.

-Either 2nd or 3rd city usually try to grab a strategic resource like horses of copper.

-Early research should start with important worker techs for the resources you need to improve. BW is really important too in most games. Pottery and Writing are strong for granary, library, open borders with neighbors.

 

[Tatran]

There's, imho, not a clear answer.
Because it depends on the type of map, game speed, (raging) barbarians on/off, goody huts on/off, type of resources, coastal start or not, etc.

When I start coastal, I always go for a workboat first to scout to see if there's a coastal connection with other continents (Hemispheres map).
In the past I made the mistake to do other stuff first and I needed galleys to do sea scouting later.
And to make a long story short, a handful of galleys was not enough to contact every leader (only 2 of 7),
because all my galleys got sunk by barb galleys.

 

[bhavv]

Worker > Worker.

On marathon that's 50 turns.

 

[cseanny]

So what are the most important things to do in the first 50 turns?

What starting build orders?
How many cities?
What techs?
What am I not thinking of?

Civilization is such a complex game with so many variable that virtually every game will greatly vary based on the map and your leader. However, for some extremely generic answers:



- How many cities? I play Immortal/Deity and as a rule of thumb I like to have 5 cities before 1000 BC and up to 6-9 by 1AD (peaceful expand). If you play on lower levels maintenance/research is cheaper so you can probably do more.

- build orders: The following build will usually get you around 5 cities/5-6 workers before 1300 BC with most leaders on non-coastal starts. This is for normal speed btw.

- Capital: Worker > Warrior to size 3 > Settler (size 3) > Worker (size 3) > Settler (size 3) > Worker (size 3). Timings work out like; You're initial Worker will have time to improve 2 tiles by which time you'll already be at size 3 and your 1st Settler starting. I prefer farms/mines as improvements for max hammers and quicker production. You can save cottages for after the initial que above (although FP cottages and additional high yield food tiles are ok). You're first worker then finishes a 3rd improvement and then chops 1 forest (I prioritize BW when possible) to get you're 2nd worker out fast (Settler just left).

- 1st settled city: 2 Initial workers build roads to your new city (usually takes 1-3 turns) and then makes 2 improvements (usually 6-7 turns). This coincides nicely with your 2nd Settler finishing in your Capital. I like to bring those 2 initial Workers back to the Capital and chop 1 forest to speed up the Worker now in que. Those 2 initial Workers now make roads to your 3rd city while your new Worker in the Capital begins improvements there.

You're 1st settled cities initial building que will be Warrior to size 2 > Worker (size 2) > either another military unit or que up a Granary as you grow to size 4 (making 2 more improvements) > Settler (size 4). At this point I prefer to 2 pop whip my Settler as close to 69/100 as possible to get max overflow into either a Granary or another worker. The worker you've made at size 2, after making 2 improvements, normally has time to go back to the Capital and help out there for a few turns (depending on distance and timing of your new cities 1st Settler).

However, if you are able to work 4 strong tiles and have some nice commerce (or cottage sharing for Capital) it can be perfectly fine to avoid the whip and work max tiles and chop instead.

- 2nd settled city: Does the same build/improvements as your 1st settled city with the exception of making a Worker at size 2. Do not make a worker at size 2. Simply focus on max improvements and max growth to size 4 and then continue on as normal (well, as above anyways lol).

- what techs: I like to emphasize Food > Strategic > Roads > Pottery and in most cases I like to grab BW early for chops/whipping. After that I like to go Writing (open borders with everyone plus they can share religion and give you free border pops) and then pick up Alpha (sometimes via trade).

Here are a few random examples. Hatty starts with The Wheel and Agriculture. Let's say she has corn, hills, and some trees. I'd start off Min > BW > Pottery.

With Roosevelt, who starts with Fishing and Agriculture you might open Mining, BW, The Wheel, Pottery. So initial tech choices really do depend on your Leader and Land, more so than anything else.

 

[civbone]

Worker-warrior all the way. I'd say the most important things are:

1) Tech path. Hooking up decent food early on is top priority, so AG or sometimes AH are first techs. For many sea starts, fishing is often a first tech to research. If there are no non-forested hills, research BW next, for production.

2) Scouting. With your initial warrior/scout it is vital to explore the surrounding area for decent spots for new cities, and grab them before the enemy does. At some difficulty levels it's a race to get 6 cities (required for wonders like globe theatre and oxford university).

3) Road connections and tile improvements. Resources makes great tiles, so these should be hooked up first, but every city needs food, so that means farms too. Connecting cities is vital for domestic trade routes, worker transport and dynamic defense vs barbs.

4) Settling. Get those settlers out there, but have enough workers so that no city is too long without connection or working too many unimproved tiles. Don't send settlers into fogged terrain without escorts. If your cities will require border pops, consider mysticism for monuments.

5) Decide what early wonders to go for, if any. The oracle and the great lighthouse requires a certain tech-path. The pyramids, less so. But usually the goal is to go for writing as soon as you have the very essential early techs.

6) After that, it's just further improving the tiles surrounding your already built cities, choosing next tech wisely with regards to trades, expanding further if you can, whipping where you can, and most of all keeping tabs on the diplomatic situation and whether anyone's plotting (on you!).

Instead of focusing on build-orders, I'd say it's better to know the general idea of what you're doing, and experiment.

 

[Gwynnja]

Depends on what level. Also depends on what your starting techs are. Also depends on what your land looks like.

 

[Seraiel]

Worker, Warrior, grow on Barracks or Stonehenge to size 3, Settler...

... and from then on it depends. If you got Horses, you can stop at 2 or 3 cities and go for a Horse-Archer Rush, if you got Ivory, again settle 3 cities, go for Elepult. 3 cities are also enough for a Sword-pult Rush or basically for any real rush.

You can also REX to 5-10 cities sometimes, depending on the map, then you'll probably want to go for a later breakout like Cuirrs or Rifles.

 

[dohh]

With IMP I sometimes go settler first. Especially when I see some strong early tiles (as oasis).
You sure get some delay on worker, but having two very early cities makes that up IMHO.

Basically it depends what early ressources you have. Building worker and allowing it to wait techs is pointless.

 

[lymond]

oasis is not a strong IMP tile, doh. settler first is generally considered sub-optimal no matter the trait.

You are going to have 2 cities without workers for quite some time and likely without trade routes either. Running deficit that early really hurts on getting the worker techs

 

[Macksideshow]

With IMP I sometimes go settler first. Especially when I see some strong early tiles (as oasis).
You sure get some delay on worker, but having two very early cities makes that up IMHO.

Basically it depends what early ressources you have. Building worker and allowing it to wait techs is pointless.

Lol, if all I have are Oasises and no food specials I am regenerating that map. I'm struggling to imagine a situation where settler first is good. You would have to want to beat the AI to somewhere really really special. And not start with mining.

EDIT: Ok well mining doesn't matter. IMP, Settle on stone plains hill with an awesome city 2 spot that has 2 Oasises or seafood and no food specials in Capital is the best case I can think of for Settler first and maybe it would be optimal.

But then again, why wouldn't I just move my initial Settler to the awesome spot and settle there? Na, I don't think I can find a reason to Settler first. I am interested in other opinions though.

 

[Seraiel]

How long does a Settler take on T1? I think it's more time, than one would need for a Worker, grow to size 3 and then build the Settler, or, that it only takes very few more time.

Also, don't forget that IMP only multiplies , so to have a benefit from it at size 1, you'd need to work a PHF or at least a PF if you have settled on a 2 tile. Even then, the bonus is marginal with only 1 . A size 3 city otoh can work the and 2 PHF, if settled on a Plains-Hill, that's 8 + 2 bonus , and of course, if the whip is available, 4 -> 2 is awesome because IMP applies to the whip.

 

[Macksideshow]

With IMP, settle plains hill its 25 turns on Epic speed, 22 turns with settle on a stone plains hill. You will get the settler faster (18 turns just for the Worker) but the problem is what use can one find for the Settler without a worker. Paying maintenence to work unimproved tiles is hard to justify. It would have to be a very exotic situation I would think.

 

[Seraiel]

The maintenance is not the problem, as a city having a TR via river connection usually pays for itself. If the city could even work an Oasis, I'm sure, that Research wouldn't go down.

The question is, does a 2nd city add to the production? If one grows to size 3, and works let's say a Corn tile, a FP and a green Hill, that would be 10 and 4 . If one has 2 cities instead, both being size 1 and working a FP, that'd be 10 + 2 . If one of those cities however would grow to size 2 before the other city would be size 3, then the 2 cities would already be stronger.

So what is faster, one city building a Worker and growing to size 3, or building a Settler and then growing cities!

Would be interesting to know, I suspect that it'd get really close, but then, of course having 1 developed city with a Worker would have be better, because having a Worker is better than having no Worker (trivial, I know) .

 

[dohh]

I dont agree here. Having IMP and working on 3h tile will give You settler just with 3-5 turns longer time than first worker. Oasis example is not for building settler, it is for catching up a bit in science while growing city/building worker. Normally at high level You always need to rush somewhere, would it be mids or oracle. for example it is completely possible to oracle CS on immortal.

Mark: one example of having a god food source is grassland pig, but no techs to research AH straight away.

Seraiel: I dont know how critical You are towards starts that You accept for taking it on. However at deity or immortal I can almost never allow to research BW to whip anything if I want to oracle somehing valuable.

 

[Izuul]

I think you would really need the right situation to come out ahead going settler first. I'm thinking junky capitol, river to connect 2nd city, and IMP leader. It's also probable that you would have very little information about the surrounding land and prospective 2nd city location on T0 or T1 when you settle your capitol and have to decide on build.

I might test it out some later when i get some time.

 

[Zacar]

Unimprovable start would probably mean no worker first. The typical case would be work boats and otherwise forested tiles. If we add no water food resources, you start to get to the marginal start territory where things aren't as familiar. I'm not sure what the map generator can at worst give (food-wise).. fresh water lake for plains tiles only, and a bunch of plantation-able luxury resources perhaps? And no directly mineable hills. Either build a settler or grow slowly and build it then..

For the generic case, I suspect that while settler start would be okay for the 2nd city, 3rd at least would suffer compared to the worker start.

 

[dohh]

I think you would really need the right situation to come out ahead going settler first..

Thats something I can completely agree with. I was just defending settler-first strategy in some cases, because no one else mentioned it. Worker first is best in most cases.

 

[Macksideshow]

Thats something I can completely agree with. I was just defending settler-first strategy in some cases, because no one else mentioned it. Worker first is best in most cases.

I'm interested in examples of such situations dohh. You're right with IMP and hammer heavy starts you can get that first Settler almost as fast as a worker. What then?

I have an interest in non-Worker First start theory.

 

[Doshin]

I'm interested in examples of such situations dohh. You're right with IMP and hammer heavy starts you can get that first Settler almost as fast as a worker. What then?

I have an interest in non-Worker First start theory.

Try Nobles' Club C: Justinian of the Byzantine Empire.