First caravan?

[Primacide]

I would like to know when you usually get your first caravan out and when you research either AH or Sailing. I am a struggling immortal-level player and my early game needs work. I push to get the NC out (which is still tricky sub-turn-100), but the thing I've sacrificed in my game to do it is the first trade units. I've looked at many guides, and most have the first trade unit listed at position six or higher in their build order, yet everyone says to get trade routes out early.

If you have a take or a typical plan that works for you, please share. Thanks in advance.

 

[reddishrecue]

Once you get NC and philosophy, build enough troops to expand to a new city. Once you have a new city, you can send a caravan to it so that the new city could grow quicker.

 

[Sid Simelia]

I usually wait until around turn 100 and either try to build Petra for the first one or purchase the first one, and then wait until I can buy cargo ships for more trade routes.

 

[Peter Sagan]

I Like building my caravan when I want my capital to grow another pop and then change production. When I've reached that pop, I start building a settler and immediately after I continue producing that caravan, so I can send it straight away to my new city. The problem sometimes is, that there isn't a TR available because no Civ or CS is close enough.

But most people will tell you to send all your caravans to the capital, but ofcourse this will take longer because you first need a granary to be able to do that. In my second city I always start building the library first because I want a 3city NC and I'm normally only able to buy a library in my third city. I find TR too important to delay that late, especially coastal cities need cargo ships ASAP, so I would go for AH as my second tech after Pottery and also Sailing is high on my priority list when I've got a coastal capital. I mean 6f! That's the same amount the HG give you, insane. When my expo's have granaries, always send Trade Routes to your capital because that's the place where you want your Guilds and Science slots filled.

Note that I always play Legendary Starts, so you know that my terrain is always superb and my capital doesn't really need food ASAP. People with bad dirt for their Cap will probably advise something else.

 

[Acken]

The most common time is just after expanding, before the NC. So around 50-60.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

The most common time is just after expanding, before the NC. So around 50-60.

Yeah i usually start nc around turn 60-65 on immortal, to finish it at 70-75. if possible a caravan will go in the queue before that, if i have the production and there are no other pressing priority's. Sometimes things like a water mill, stone works and/or stables will get prefference, as at times one can have a capital with an abundance of say stone or domesticated animals to get extra hammers for, which will make completing the nc and everything else after it faster. I might build that caravan in another city too by then, sometimes i'd get the earlier or more productional settled city up to a granery and library way before the others and then i can consider a caravan there too.

Often i don't mind if the caravans come a bit later. Afterall, one needs happyness to be able to benefit of it. Although i should reconsider as to building water mills for they can be expensive and maybe the same if not better can be achieved with a caravan. Early caravans don't give that much yield though, and i can often throttle growth and production at that point to such an extend that ill need to avoid some growth.

 

[GCavalry]

The 3 city tradition opening is gear to Food caravan.
Food cargo ship is awesome and should be rushed if you start coastal.

2 food cargo ship to the capital is even more overpowered!

 

[reddishrecue]

The 3 city tradition opening is gear to Food caravan.
Food cargo ship is awesome and should be rushed if you start coastal.

2 food cargo ship to the capital is even more overpowered!

Food cargo ships are way better than food caravans but they cost a lot more to build.

 

[Acken]

33% more for double the yield is a no brainer.

 

[joncnunn]

I would like to know when you usually get your first caravan out and when you research either AH or Sailing. I am a struggling immortal-level player and my early game needs work. I push to get the NC out (which is still tricky sub-turn-100), but the thing I've sacrificed in my game to do it is the first trade units. I've looked at many guides, and most have the first trade unit listed at position six or higher in their build order, yet everyone says to get trade routes out early.

If you have a take or a typical plan that works for you, please share. Thanks in advance.

First Caravan??? Never, instead I use Cargo Ships, which provide more of everything even when the destination is on the same landmass.
Best time for first cargo ship is right after you have a granary in the second city.
Similar for second & third cargo ships. After that as you unlock techs allowing them.

 

[Redaxe]

Yeah for some reason I always find I'm also really late to getting trade routes going. I think part of the problem is that the 2 expansions have added a crap load of essential new stuff to build in the ancient-classical eras so that by the time you get to the medieval era (which hasn't changed much since Vanilla) you are still playing catch up on many items.

 

[reddishrecue]

Yeah for some reason I always find I'm also really late to getting trade routes going. I think part of the problem is that the 2 expansions have added a crap load of essential new stuff to build in the ancient-classical eras so that by the time you get to the medieval era (which hasn't changed much since Vanilla) you are still playing catch up on many items.

True, but there should be one resource that you need.. for whatever it is that you want to do.

 

[Primacide]

Thanks for your thoughts on this, folks.

If I'm reading this right, most people seem to produce their first trade unit (caravan or ship) before the NC. I have adapted to the immortal difficulty by producing several archers during this period, because I have noticed that if the AI senses you are weak, it will come for you around turn 80-90. I think I can cancel one archer and grab a caravan in its place. Hopefully that will give me cash to rush buy either the last library for NC or an archer if I'm last in soldiers.

Thank you fellow civfanatics!

 

[Ryika]

Thanks for your thoughts on this, folks.

If I'm reading this right, most people seem to produce their first trade unit (caravan or ship) before the NC. I have adapted to the immortal difficulty by producing several archers during this period, because I have noticed that if the AI senses you are weak, it will come for you around turn 80-90. I think I can cancel one archer and grab a caravan in its place. Hopefully that will give me cash to rush buy either the last library for NC or an archer if I'm last in soldiers.

Thank you fellow civfanatics!

"Cash"? You should almost always use it for internal trade, not for external trade. Cash is earned by selling luxuries and Resources (sell 1 by 1 for 2 gpt each if you're struggling early on).

 

[Primacide]

Lol! You guys are killing me. I gets no wonders, have to panic build the nc, try not to get whacked, and now use internal routes with my first 'van?!?!

Sheesh, it's like this game is challenging again.

(Thanks for the tip Ryika.)

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

. I think I can cancel one archer and grab a caravan in its place. Hopefully that will give me cash to rush buy either the last library for NC or an archer if I'm last in soldiers.

As to give you a tip: make the last city you settle, if possible, the city spot you considered for settling that has most forrests arround it. This way, rather than rush buying the library you can just chop for it with workers you could have by then. Library is only 75 hammers, so for ex. 3 forrest + 15 hammers will do.

 

[dasaard200]

Food is great, early game; and I usually bee-line Workshops for hammer TRs to stand up newer cities.

By the time Workshops come on-line, I have enough workers to flood Newcity for blitz-building tiles, roads; and when using RYIKA's Caravansary T.R. mod, I like to target 3-4 TRs(2hammers, 1-2 food) to Fed-EX Newcity (when you absolutely, positively, HAVE to get it up and running NOW) .

For ICS, target just 2 TRs(1 each) for vital cities ( coal, aluminum, uranium); and 1 TR(food) for area filling cities . (Don't ya hate it when the AI plonks down a throwaway city to stunt your development on this side of the continent ?, or to block your roadnet ??)

 

[Primacide]

Funny you mention that. I actually don't usually mind. I settle cities pretty far apart because I know the AI will back-fill all the lesser dirt with sad little cities. I typically take them when safe and puppet them into little gold-producing suburbs that connect my main cities.

On topic: I appreciate the advice regarding use of TRs. I get greedy usually and don't have more than one internal route until the industrial era. Occasionally I will send food to an expo, but I always look at it and say, "man that's only 4 food per turn. I could be getting 10 gold and 2 science..." I suppose I should look at +4 food as two citizens, which is worth at least that much.

 

[reddishrecue]

Why not just call the whole thread first cargo ship since cargo ships give more food.

 

[krickets]

"Cash"? You should almost always use it for internal trade, not for external trade. Cash is earned by selling luxuries and Resources (sell 1 by 1 for 2 gpt each if you're struggling early on).

Yeah, to make a long story short, first caravan to my capital and i keep it there and then if its a decision on your 2nd or 3rd caravan between 4 food (no a trade ship) to my 2nd expansion or a trade route to a city state w/ the quest or good capital I'll usually pick the external one. I want the trade route going to my capital to be there at all times though.