First Look: Sumeria

[Siptah]

Has anyone already pointed out that really the civilization should be called "Sumer"? The word "Sumeria" doesn't exist. It's either Sumer (country) or Sumerian (adjective) or the Sumerians (people).

http://www.ancient.eu/sumer/

Civ is, was, and will always be strange and inconsistent in this regard. There also is no 'Aztec', but the civ is named like that. I thought they just did it do not have a split again between countries/empires and peoples. Where they found Sumeria, I don't know. Maybe they also wanted to avoid the people as a name (Sumerians) and ended with Sumeria instead of Sumer for some reason?
Since I'll be playing the translated german version, I wonder how they'll translate those two, maybe the translators will use the peoples again.

 

[Krajzen]

Am i the only one bothered that they call Sumeria. Isn't it supposed to be Sumer?

Has anyone already pointed out that really the civilization should be called "Sumer"? The word "Sumeria" doesn't exist. It's either Sumer (country) or Sumerian (adjective) or the Sumerians (people).

http://www.ancient.eu/sumer/

PS: I see that muhtesem insan has already pointed it out...

I agree, and I also dislike the "Sumeria" word. Especially as in my native language it doesn't even exist (there is only "Sumer"), so that feels wrong on even more levels.

 

[cazaderonus]

Sumeria is basically a civ on decline, strong starter but without much lasting bonuses other then the strong start can give.

This remains to be play proofed. It will depend on wether or not firaxis managed, as it would appear so far, to limit the importance of early play and snowballing.

If it remains as fundamental as it is in V, then Sumer suddenly becomes a top pick if not #1.

but i have a feeling it will be alright. Mostly because of the science outputs we saw so far being way less exponential than they were in V. Doesnt seem we'll reach 1000 beakers per turn on a every game basis.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

That's not really enough IMO. Sumeria was in the Fertile Crescent. Arable land from rich silt, and an overabundance of fish, created a positive cornucopia of food wealth there, enough to lead to legends that the Garden of Eden was originally there.

It was a HUGE part of early human civilization and particularly Sumeria, so it's a real shame it's not in the game in some way, shape or form.

I understand what you're saying, and perhaps a farm UI or super granary might fit.

HOWEVER, you said it yourself, that they were in the Fertile Crescent with land and fish and lush excess of food. Couldn't you just as easily argue in game terms that that had nothing to do with their uniques at all, but rather that they rolled up a primo start location?

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Most of the snowball factors seems to be gone from civilization VI.

Also the other civs get some powerful stuff as well and the late game stuff some civs have seems to be very powerful. Like Englands redcoat look to be as powerful as infantry but comes a whole era earlier and are cheaper so this unit could spell the end for many early empires and give rise to the British empire instead

America is a sleeping giant, its founding fathers get stronger and stronger as the game moves along. Most of its stuff comes late but in return its late game seems to be simply fantastic. Super good at culture victories with bonuses to everything thanks to legacy bonuses. Air superiority, large cities due to great national parks.

At the same time Sumeria and many other civs late game is completly dependent on what they could bring in from early game, they work against time so to say while America, England and some other embrace the late game.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

but i have a feeling it will be alright. Mostly because of the science outputs we saw so far being way less exponential than they were in V. Doesnt seem we'll reach 1000 beakers per turn on a every game basis.

Let's also remember that eurekas are just as important as raw science output in civ6. I would argue that China's eureka discount is better than Sumer's ziggurat. Sumer can get extra raw science but China can rush more techs via eurekas.

 

[Siptah]

I understand what you're saying, and perhaps a farm UI or super granary might fit.

HOWEVER, you said it yourself, that they were in the Fertile Crescent with land and fish and lush excess of food. Couldn't you just as easily argue in game terms that that had nothing to do with their uniques at all, but rather that they rolled up a primo start location?

They kind of invented systematical irrigation though to make the most use of their primo start location.
I don't see the food bonus form history though, their agricultural technique lead to a heavy decline of ground fertility rather fast (ok, over 1000 years, but still). It's a long time since I read the numbers, but I think they started around a massive 30:1 crop ratio and had 10:1 during babylonian times and 4:1 in late antiquity, while Egypt maintained a 30+:1 ratio until early modern times.
I would have guessed at a housing bonus since they had a few immensely large cities very early (~50k in Uruk 3000BC).

Let's also remember that eurekas are just as important as raw science output in civ6. I would argue that China's eureka discount is better than Sumer's ziggurat. Sumer can get extra raw science but China can rush more techs via eurekas.

I think it is probably safe to assume that Sumer will get more eurekas than other civs due to the more goody huts they will get. However, this might not be that profitable since you might get most eurekas anyway. If barbarians are still around in the later game, and goody huts still eurekas, I can see this being different.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

You should be one of the first civ to reach feudalism so that will give quite a boost. That is however the problem with Sumeria and some other civs, what do you have to look forward to then you have spent everything unique on the early game.

Sure England and America may not be quick starters but they are instead strong finishers and the early game civs need to keep ahead or they are inferior in pretty much every regard then the late game comes around.

 

[Zaarin]

Has anyone already pointed out that really the civilization should be called "Sumer"? The word "Sumeria" doesn't exist. It's either Sumer (country) or Sumerian (adjective) or the Sumerians (people).

http://www.ancient.eu/sumer/

PS: I see that muhtesem insan has already pointed it out...

Sumeria is indeed a word used in free variation with Sumer, both in scholarly and informal English. I'd prefer Sumer, but honestly the name is the only thing about this civ I don't have a problem with.

 

[Alphons Rodulfo]

I would like to add myself to the grumbling masses that oppose the name 'Sumeria' instead of 'Sumer'.

 

[j51]

Sumeria is indeed a word used in free variation with Sumer, both in scholarly and informal English. I'd prefer Sumer, but honestly the name is the only thing about this civ I don't have a problem with.

I would like to add myself to the grumbling masses that oppose the name 'Sumeria' instead of 'Sumer'.

It's both similar too and opposite from how they always name the civ (and not simply the capital) Babylon instead of Babylonia.

Edit: They really need a team of historical researchers. They don't have to pay anyone. I'm sure they could organize a few of us into a team and we'd do it for free, or at least a free copy.

 

[Bino]

It's both similar too and opposite from how they always name the civ (and not simply the capital) Babylon instead of Babylonia.

Edit: They really need a team of historical researchers. They don't have to pay anyone. I'm sure they could organize a few of us into a team and we'd do it for free, or at least a free copy.

Funny thing about Sumeria, in my native language it sounds fine, even if i do not think it exists, never heard it. About the Babylon/Babylonia example you brought up, Babylon is the english translation of the italian Babilonia

 

[j51]

Funny thing about Sumeria, in my native language it sounds fine, even if i do not think it exists, never heard it. About the Babylon/Babylonia example you brought up, Babylon is the english translation of the italian Babilonia

Wikipedia says it comes from the Greek. But meh, I'm getting off topic I guess.

 

[steveg700]

I understand what you're saying, and perhaps a farm UI or super granary might fit.

HOWEVER, you said it yourself, that they were in the Fertile Crescent with land and fish and lush excess of food. Couldn't you just as easily argue in game terms that that had nothing to do with their uniques at all, but rather that they rolled up a primo start location?

Yes, well, that's one reason why the asymmetrical unique abilities--while fun and interesting--flies in the face of how the series works. Could say the same for Brazil or Egypt's uniques. All these abilities could be "unlockables" that are acquired in some fashion, not unlike civic or techs or religion. You hang out near rain forests enough, you get some special district only you can build. In a way, that would be more fun than playing a "pre-assembled" civ that the designers pieced together for us.

I think the main thing we know of Sumer is that they enjoyed stories and music. I would've gone that way with them. That Gilgamesh is a two-fisted epic is no more telling than how many people in America enjoy fiction that offers violent power fantasies because their lives are filled with tedium.

What we have in Sumer now is basically just a made-up civ. Could call it anything. It captures nothing about Sumer because there's not much we can actually say about them resolutely.

 

[Ovarwa]

Hi,

Gilgamesh's leader ability is no less historical than Teddy's. He was quite happy getting involved everywhere, from the Philippines to Morocco to Japan. The "Rough Riders" as a special unit is also a bit strange. "Founding Fathers" sounds very American, but the ability attached to it seems utterly WTH: America has never changed its government so has no legacy bonus from previous governments. (Maybe this should have been given to, say France, renamed "Seventh Republic!" )

In a similar way, the real Brazil is not known for lots of great people or for dominating the seas with battleships. (In a sense, the great tragedy of Brazil under Pedro2 is that there weren't enough *other* great people!)

As a package, Sumeria works nicely as "we are the first," straddling the prehistoric age of myth and the age of civilization. Fight off the barbarians who have yet to develop a real city? Check. Have abilities that promote diplomacy, alliances with other cities and civs? Check. UU to start things early, great for both scouting and rushing? Check. UI to start science/culture early? Check. Some of these remain useful throughout the game, as does the early overall advantage.

How the pieces actually work together has to await actual play. These are not passive abilities but must be leveraged carefully. They are also flexible. Lots of talk about early science and culture, about barbarians, about how good pillage-share is. But Sumeria is also great at simple early rushing, better even than the Aztecs.

Maybe OP, maybe UP. Hard to say.

It probably only matters in MP, however, since the AI is likely to have issues.

Anyway,

Ken

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Yes, well, that's one reason why the asymmetrical unique abilities--while fun and interesting--flies in the face of how the series works. Could say the same for Brazil or Egypt's uniques. All these abilities could be "unlockables" that are acquired in some fashion, not unlike civic or techs or religion. You hang out near rain forests enough, you get some special district only you can build. In a way, that would be more fun than playing a "pre-assembled" civ that the designers pieced together for us.

I think the main thing we know of Sumer is that they enjoyed stories and music. I would've gone that way with them. That Gilgamesh is a two-fisted epic is no more telling than how many people in America enjoy fiction that offers violent power fantasies because their lives are filled with tedium.

What we have in Sumer now is basically just a made-up civ. Could call it anything. It captures nothing about Sumer because there's not much we can actually say about them resolutely.

Well it does (sort of) capture the one thing we can say resolutely...they got an early start.

Essentially they should be done with the Ancient Era in 1/2 the time anyone else is... they then have to use that time advantage.


I would have done something like
UA-start with Code of Laws, Pottery, the eureka for Writing, a Granary, a Builder and 3 pop in your Capital
UI-Ziggurat (actually not too bad)..although I would have given it faith and culture bonus
UU-Warcart is not too bad... it is available from the beginning.

 

[Siptah]

It captures nothing about Sumer because there's not much we can actually say about them resolutely.

You've posted a few statements like that now (also in regard to Ziggurats). I'm not sure why you think like that. Assyriology has produced a vast amount of knowledge about Sumer in roughly the last 100 years, but in this field it is mostly published in other languages than English on academic level.
Of course, it is debatable what 'much' and 'resolutely' means in terms of history (it's actually pretty hard to say a lot of things really resolutely about something from 19th century Europe if you are a serious scientist).
What I can assure you of is, that we know enough about Sumer to include them in Civ and to make tons of abilities based on their history as we know it. I cannot speak for all cultures and all of history, however to my best knowledge more is known about Sumer than about for example the Maya, Inca or Mongols. And I don't hear someone complain about that (and for a reason, because we know quite some stuff about them, but alas we will never know as much about them as about Sumer).
If you want more info, feel free to send me a PM.

 

[Janskey]

LUA might take some testing to get it work, but like someone said, you could use another player's units as a kind of cannon fodder, while getting free stuff for yourself.

In the OP video pic (without pressing play) he has this expression of "I don't know what happened, that city just burnt".

 

[berni19]

I dont like the female voice in presentations..it is so anoying and disliking for me...sorry for that..my recomendation is to activate Spock or similar voice for this kind of stuff..

 

[Magil]

You should be one of the first civ to reach feudalism so that will give quite a boost. That is however the problem with Sumeria and some other civs, what do you have to look forward to then you have spent everything unique on the early game.

I think it would be premature to suggest that the snowball factor is gone. We do not have nearly enough data to make any judgment on that fact. The platitudes spouted on "wasting resources on early game advantage" apply to any game in the series, but the fact remains that if you get access to new resources faster, then you often end up with more of them earned overall when the game ends. And Civ is all about collecting resources (speaking in a broad sense, ie yields and access to various systems like religion and key techs) and utilizing them efficiently. Time will tell if other Civs can "catch up" utilizing their own bonuses, but nevertheless I would never undersell the value of a strong start.