Fix the 5th trash game

[Giaur]

Comments on my game:

Spoiler :

Bolded part means self-researched tech ...

Liberalism (1470) -> Nationalism, Machinery, music (1500) -> Constitution (1550) -> Compass, Engineering (1570) -> Chemistry (1595) -> PP, Guilds, Optics (1600) -> Astro, Banking (1620) -> Economics (1625) -> Steel (1625)-> Rifling (1635)

No wars

Religion: Judaism
Civics: Rep, B, CS, FM, Pacifism
MostAdvancedTechs: Steel, Rifling
Current research: Steam power
Research: 580 without losing commerce
Output: 80 hammers

Plus:
- 2 great people are waiting for orders
- Academy in the capital
- we came out from technological hole
- 2 friendly civs
- OU, HE built

Minus:
- no more resources
- no more cities
- no more army

-----------------------------------------

My intension is draft some rifles, invade Bismarck or Cyrus and upgrade rifles to Infantry for gold from conquered cities. There are also some merchants assigned, but there is small chance GreatMerchant will born ...

 

[mice]

Still, mice you have no excuse. You played all the fix the trash games + you usually add your name, making the save automatically correctly named.

I found my name cropping up in other saves causing confusion for my already confused brain. This is why I left it off. I'll put it on again from now.
Happy birthday Kmad.

 

[KMadCandy]

mice, i mean as part of the save file itself. you can change the name of the save file after you save the game, you don't have to change the name ingame. i did go ahead and change the name ingame cuz i know i won't get picked . i'm easily confused, so when i load the games to compare them, i need to have everybody's name on their file so i know which i'm loading. but i did change the name of yours when i downloaded it *giggle*.

cabert, has your wife never told you to not use that word that start with "o" and ends with "er" on this day of the year??? OMG!!! pretend i just totally gave you a cathy slap across the face ok?

"Kmad, may I ask if it was a warrior's round or a peaceful trial?
All of us were peaceful for now, and I'd be curious to see a warlike save..."
i made a unit! it was a workboat, and i didn't use it to fight for fighting purposes. those guys had rifles man, and i had axes. i'm crazy but i'm not suicidal!

Spoiler :

i think i got the cabert "meet the guy from overseas for trade opportunities" chance this time. i met gus in 1470, lib didn't come in until 1500. i got machinery and printing press in trades from the new guy before lib. between getting prereqs from him early, and the "wait a turn between trades and put in some beakers towards self-research" thing, i ended up getting guilds, compass, music, banking, and engineering from liberalism, and i couldn't get a thing out of bis or roos mind you *giggle*. so thanks for extra chances gus! did it help me as much as it should have, or put me any farther ahead at the end of the round than anyone else? heck no, cuz i'm not as good as cabert and can't use luck as skillfully. wait a second ... maybe this means i should resent cabert even more...

i read the other reports and figured i'd do it the shortest way possible. i went thru my notes to look up what techs i got, with the ones i learned myself marked with * :

machinery, PP, liberalism*, guilds, compass, music, banking, engineering, optics*, nationalism, astronomy*, constitution, economics*, chemistry*

chemistry came in this turn but i have not yet traded it. i put signs up next to a jumbo with movement to point that out . that way those more skilled than i can do their own trading magic if any is possible. brennus doesn't want to part with corp for it, but cyrus would give me either his gold and DR for it, or RP for it with my gold thrown in. case can be made for either, since RP is super but bis/gus/brennus don't know DR yet. the old "do i risk waiting a turn to earn more money/get another tech from trade/self-research beakers, or will brennus learn chemistry in the meantime?" question. i know what i'd do tho

the weirdest thing that i probably should explain:

1540 i'm not sure when it happened, but camul (size 12 now) is recovering from a revolt it apparently had to the celtic empire, 2 turns remaining in revolt. suddenly cyrus needs iron according to the resource screen. i check the map, he has one source and he's gifting it to brennus; his other source is that one by camul that he just lost ... to brennus! well, he's making cavalry and riflemen, they don't use iron, he doesn't have chem so he doesn't have steel, so he's not making cannon. if he was, i'd not give him iron. but since he's not, and since i'm not making any either, i rip him off and sell him my iron for 10 gpt. haha jerkface. i cannot stop laughing.

so that's why that deal is there. i'm certain you wondered

and i found this bizarre:

1560 i start looking around in brennusville since i have OB. i see the troops in bibracte and my jaw drops. then i realize half belong to cyrus. including a ... persian galley??? bibracte is inland, cyrus didn't sail it in from outside, and brennus couldn't have gifted it to cyrus in celtic territory, even if he could have built it in bibracte which he didn't. maybe it got stuck and transported when camul revolted, i dunno, but i'm giggling. i bet it will be there forever, or until he and brennus don't have OB, he won't disband it.
tarsus has: 7 riflemen, 6 cavalry, 2 trebs from cyrus's side. and some spare celtic troops in there: 1 rifleman, 3 horse archers, 2 cavs, 4 jumbos and 2 catapults. yes i believe i shall stay in my cozy little "build oxford and other buildings" world and not try to beat these guys up.

diplomacy i'm happy with. at the end, cyrus and bismarck are both friendly, so they will trade, yeehaw. brennus isn't but that's fine, he's bottom half so he'll trade anyway. my goal with him was just "have him like me enough to trade with me and not DoW me". gus hadn't hit WFYABTA yet but i expect him to soon. if i think somebody from overseas will attack, i can sign DPs with bis and/or cyrus. if i think bis and/or cyrus will turn on me, i can unplug my pc .

all cities are now jewish. i had a combination of playing-too-late-at-night and not-realizing-how-soon-the-round-was-over thing at the end, so some cities have more than thing in the queue since i was swapping around in my wierd way that i couldn't explain to you if i tried. i just do things weird. as far as military, i actually did build HE in calcutta, and i built us two boats. the workboat, and a caravel to go meet korea since he still hadn't shown up. i met him in 1585. and realized that altho he was our first contestant to reach democracy, and was already running universal sufferage and emancipation, he was in the bottom as far as score. he was up 6 techs that i could see, which doesn't count democracy. yes i felt a wee bit behind.

my workers got bored and had no success with their backup plan of trying to learn the secrets of replaceable parts by watching cyrus's and bismarck's workers, so they went over to clear some jungle in case we wanted to make some other city there. they had nothing better to do in the meantime.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Here's my save.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/61698/Trashy_gandhi_jevind_AD-1650.CivWarlordsSave

Spoiler :

Summary:

1410: Built aqueduct in Calcutta. Started to build Heroic Epic.
1420: Built forge in Madras. Started to build theatre.
Built library in Vienne, began to build spearman.
(Great Engineer born in America.)
1430: Brennus built Taj Mahal. Brennus and somebody else (Bismarck?) enjoy Golden Ages at the same time.
1440: Built university in Delhi. Started to build National Epic.
Built spearman in Vienne. Started to build theatre
1450: Met Augustus, who was Annoyed with me.
1450: Founded Lahore north of the Persian city of Ergili. Lahore is from the outset clearly in peril of flipping to Bismarck or Cyrus. More about that later.
1460: Built theatre in Vienne. Started to build market.
1470: Roosevelt builds Versailles.
Great Prophet born in Persepolis.
1480: Great Artist built in Germany.
1500: NE built in Delhi. Building theatre there.
1510: Built work boat in Gergovia. Building trireme.
Built temple in Verlamion. Now building university.
Herois Epic built in Calcutta, Building musketeer there.
Theatre built in Delhi. Building courthouse.
1515: Great prophet built in Rome.
1520: Market built in Vienne, building Research there.
1520: Bismarck asked for Education and I gifted it to him.
1535: Great Engineer built in Delhi. Saved him for the time being.
1545: Disocovered Liberalism. Introduced free religion. Researching Machinery.
Sold Liberalism to Cyrus for Music, Compass, World Map, 320 gold.
Trade with Bismarck: Bananas for 12 gold. (Note: he now has Fur to seld, but I like the money.)
1545; Sold Education to Roosevelt for Machinery, World Map, 350 gold.
Now researching Guilds.
1550: Sold Liberalism to Roosevelt for Guilds, Optics, 20 gold.
Used Great Engineer towards researching Engineering.
1555: Brennus renounced his vassalage from Cyrus.
1560: Roosevelt offers open borders agreement. I consent.
Discovered Engineering. Started to research Chemistry.
1570: Augustus offers open borders agreemetn with me. Brennus once more vassal to Cyrus. My guess is that if I had attacked Brennus earlier, he would have revassalaged to Cyrus at once, so not attacking him was a Good Idea. (In my opinion.)
Camulodunum (Persian) in revolt, clearly longing to rejoin Celtic motherland.
I choose 10 % culture to save Lahore from flipping.
1580: Augustus wants me to break with vile Persians. I refuse. Instead, I suggest Defence pact to Cyrus, who agrees.
1590: Lahore's borders expand - a little.
1615: Wang Kon gets Great Prohpet.
1620: I discover Chemistry. Start to research Banking.
Great Prophet born in Delhi. He's still there, to be used as anyone sees fit. He could be used towards discovering Divine Right, but the Spiral Minaret and Versailles have both been built already.
Trading cow against corn with Augustus.
Trading rice towards deer with Augustus.
1625. Conatct with Wang Kon (annoyed.). Still, I trade corn to him for 9 gold per turn.
1649. Discovered Banking. Introduced Mercantilism.


Final comments: Cyrus is currently Pleased. You may wonder why I am running Caste Society and have a lot of Artists in Delhi and have 10 % culture on top of that. The answer is that we need cities and are too weak to take them by force. (Bismarck has Cavalry.) I am sure we'll lose Lahore through culture flipping unless we get a Great Artist and settle him there. If we do that, it could quite possibly also lead to Ergili revolting and joining our civilization. A Great Artist is likely to get born in Delhi fairly soon. When that is done, run lots of Scientists in Delhi, of course, and possibly set it to build research again, which i did fr part of this game period. Also, need to beef up coastal city garrisons - Augustus might decide to invade us.

 

[FeedBack]

Extreme situations require extreme ideas...

Spoiler :

Turn 0 - 1400 AD
Revolted to Caste System/Vassalage/OR. Still didn't go No-State-Religion
Hired a lot of scientists.

Turn 1 - 1410 AD
Founded the clam city (Lahore) with the available settler.

Turn 4 - 1440 AD
Met Augustus. Annoyed because we traded with his worst enemies. He's kinda backwards...
Sold Theology for 110 gold to him for a +4 of fortright trades... Machinery is in next turn...

Turn 5 - 1450 AD
Traded Education + Philo to Augustus for Guilds + Engineering. THis sends me to the Banking path.

Turn 6 - 1460 AD
Cyrus is soooo coool. He gave me wine for free.

Turn 9 - 1490 AD
Banking is in. Mercantilism it is.

Turn 10 - 1500 AD
Isaac Newton born. Lightbulb partly Printing Press

Turn 15 - 1525 AD
Galileo born. Lightbulbing chemistry

Turn 16 - 1530 AD
I got Chemistry and did something not so much recomended. I traded with Augustus for Nationalism and with Brennus for Replaceable parts.

Turn 17 - 1535 AD
I signed a defensive pact with... CYRUS! Go figure!
Brennus is no longer Cyrus' vassal

Turn 18 - 1540 AD
I traded Chemistry to Cyrus for the rest of Constitution + he adopting Vassalage for the diplo bonus.
Revolted into Representation

Turn 24 - 1570 AD
Great Prophet in Vienne
Merge him in Delhi

Turn 30 - 1600 AD
Democracy came. Start Statue in Delhi (30 turns)
Signed a Defensive Pact with Bismarck!

Turn 38 - 1640 AD
Scientific Method is in. We have oil.
Bad news: the other continent has Sci Meth.
Further bad news: no one wants to trade Sci Meth for Rifling...

Turn 40 - 1650 AD
Optics is in and everyone but Bismarck has Sci Meth.
I set research to Steel but no beakers invested.
I haven't met Wang yet!
Nobody has Democracy
Statue in less than 20 turns
Two defensive Pacts may be enough to let us alone for a long time.
Caste-system-representative-mercantilism specialists are awesome. With some extorsive trades, I was at the black at 100% research.
Military we are about nothing.

Edit: after reading... Not that much extreme...

And my save:

 

[KMadCandy]

Spoiler :

so many summaries complaining about getting prophets. i wanted one so bad for hammers and gold, altho i'd have taken a scientist. i ran multiple priests while making oxford. and then i got a GE . i MMd like a fiend, i never ran an engineer a single turn in dehli, and was sorely disappointed. but i would have run an engineer during wartime so i don't blame pigswill, i just cursed the RNG and settled the dude. he would have popped for part of replaceable parts but my workers were, you know, trying their plan of learning the tech by watching cyrus's workers. sadly, that did not work.

"Turn 38 - 1640 AD
Scientific Method is in. We have oil."

"Turn 40 - 1650 AD
Optics is in and everyone but Bismarck has Sci Meth."

i had to look up the tech tree after reading this one. i never realized that SM = PP + (astro or chemistry). i get it by astronomy every time. i learned something new, thanks fb!

 

[cabert]

Extreme situations require extreme ideas...

Edit: after reading... Not that much extreme...

And my save:

not extreme at all, but sounds good

 

[Cam_H]

Save below.

Spoiler :

Initial thinking

If you can’t beat them – join them. Aim for technology trades and Defensive Pacts with Jewish neighbours. Focus on infrastructure and try to engineer culture flips. National Wonders also a focus.

Opening

Made the two trades with Bismark:

• Banana for 9 gold per turn (Bismark)
• Drama for 330 gold + Map (Bismark)

• Civic > Organised Religion

Sent Settler to Jungle

Moved units into cities in light of Hereditary Rule.

Vienne > Jewish Missionary
Gergovia > Aqueduct

1410AD – 1490AD

Lahore is founded in the jungle to the south west of Delhi. Judaism spreads naturally to Verlamion, and several builds are swapped to Theatres or Universities with a view to Oxford University and the Globe Theatre. Vienne presses on with Jewish Missionaries. Brennus becomes Cautious;

• Open Borders for Open Borders (Brennus)

The agreement is made and trade routes become more profitable. Delhi adds to its science haul by adding a Jewish Monastery.

Wonderwise, Brennus builds the Taj Mahal while Roosevelt builds Versailles. Bismark burns some Great People on a Golden Age.

1500AD – 1545AD

• Liberalism is discovered in 1500 > Chemistry

• Liberalism for Compass + Machinery + Map + 510 gold (Cyrus)

Universities are whipped out, again with a view to Oxford University. Calcutta completes the Heroic Epic with a view to the Heroic Theatre. Finally a Work Boat is produced for our Clams to the north out of Gergovia.

• Bureaucracy > Free Speech

John Dalton (Great Scientist, collated scientific concepts to form the first set of atomic theories) is popped in Madras and founds an Academy in Delhi;

• Liberalism + 80 gold for Engineering + Optics (Brennus)

Madras queues up a Caravel to meet the tribes on the other continent. Universities and Theatres are produced in many cities. All Indian cities receive Judaism by 1515AD. Delhi begins work on the National Epic in 1525AD, being the same year Brennus frees himself from Cyrus as a Persian vassal.

Workers replace unworked Cottages with Farmland around Calcutta in order to bring irrigation to the western part of the empire including Rice Farms.

1550AD – 1600AD

Calcutta begins work on the Globe Theatre. In 1550AD Gandhi meets Confucian Augustus Caesar who is gifted Theocracy. Rome has Musketmen and Medieval units. Already with Astronomy, Caeser is able to offer the following;

• Open Borders for Open Borders (Caesar)
• Rice + Dye for Corn + Deer (Caesar)

With two new health resources (incl. Granary bonus health resource) Delhi completes the National Epic without ‘stink’ hanging over it.

The Buddhist Wang Kon is met, and to appease relations is gifted Cow for 10 turns. Korea has Rifles.

• Defensive Pact (Cyrus)

• Chemistry > Steel

• Philosophy + Education for Printing Press + Map + 130 gold (Caesar)
• Spices for 11 gold per turn (Caesar)

With the requisite number of Universities constructed (whipped!) Delhi begins Oxford University.

• Liberalism for Guilds + Map + 20 gold (Caesar)
• Chemistry for Nationalism + 30 gold (Brennus)
• Chemistry for Music + Banking + Map + 500 gold (Cyrus)

With Banking in, some of our commercially-oriented cities begin on the Bank improvement.

• Nationalism + Music for Replaceable Parts + Map + 10 gold (Caesar)

Every nation has Rifling except India. Caesar converts to Free Religion.

With Replaceable Parts, Workers start constructing Lumbermills.

• Gift Liberalism (Bismark)
• Defensive Pact (Bismark)
• Bananas for 13 gold per turn (Bismark) – Renegotiation from 9 gold per turn.

1605AD – 1650AD

In 1615AD Delhi pops Victor Hugo (Great Artist, French novelist and poet incl. Les Misérables) who after much internal debate gets sent to Vienne and creates a Great Work with the hope of picking up Camulodunum, Saradis, and/or some Winery tiles … ‘none for three’.

Across three turns;

• Steel > Steam Power

• Steel for Scientific Method + Map + 30 gold (Caesar)
• Steel for Constitution + Map + 10 gold (Brennus)
• Chemistry + Scientific Method for Astronomy + Map + 50 gold (Bismark)
• Scientific Method for Economics + 50 gold (Brennus)
• Astronomy for Corporation + Map + 10 gold (Brennus)
• Steel for Rifling + Map + 30 gold (Bismark) - We have access to Rifles!

• Hereditary Rule > Representation
• Decentralisation > Free Market

The only technology available for trade remains Military Tradition, which is of ‘so so’ value given the lack of Horses. Otherwise getting close to a competitive technology position, with Korea still out in front.

Brennus seems to have 're-set' his very tight WFYABTA limit in light of changed Vassalage status (?).

Calcutta now the Heroic Theatre city. Delhi is still chipping away at Oxford, although is desperate for a Grocer; whippable but trying to build up the Cottages. Vienne and Delhi will pop borders within the next two turns.

Cyrus has "Enough on (his) hands" and is displeased with Wang Kon.

Where we're at;

 

[Giaur]

Comments on your games:

Spoiler :

Cam: Vienne runs 2 artists. Caste could allow running two more
Well placed city.

Cabert: Free speach and Verlamon is running scientist not artist.
Vinne ... the same as Cam

Shyuhe: No comments (possitive or negative)

OJevind: Research is way too small
5 GA in Delhi and no free speach?

Fbelintani: Cities are too small
Good specialist managment. However I would assign merchants in Madras

KMadCandy: No comments (possitive or negative)

Mice: No representation?

 

[cabert]

If my watch isn't broken, time's up.
Pigswill is our returning officer again, please vote before sunday evening east coast time.
It's a fixing round, so vote for the best game

 

[cabert]

giaur, are you aware that bismarck has enough on his hands now?
any idea who the target could be?

 

[Giaur]

@Cabert: So what? Bismarck is on my hands right now

edit: I give my arm (but no head), nobody from our continent.

 

[KMadCandy]

@Cabert: So what? Bismarck is on my hands right now

edit: I give my arm (but no head), nobody from our continent.

*giggle* i'm not familiar with that expression. who would you give your arm to, which arm, and what what does that? *giggle*

i got totally confused working out worst enemies my round before this one, because cyrus is flaky. everyone had "you have traded with our worst enemies" except for me and bismarck. and if it was one of us, well, we'd been trading all along! and brennus had "you have traded with our worst enemies" with everybody except cyrus. i'd never thought to wonder, even though i knew they could their mind on who their worst enemy is, if you can get extra double bonus trading with worst enemy points if you trade with their first one, and then their second one after their fickle change of heart.

my current game i'm trying to do the peaceful thing. washington, who is my next door neighbor and cautious, just demanded that i cancel trades with cyrus, who lives on the other side of the inland sea and was pleased with me. i did cancel the trade , cyrus is still pleased but i'm oh so worried! i've seen such recent evidence how he can be sooooooooo mean.

 

[Giaur]

@KMadCandy:

This means I will give you my arm if I am wrong. When you are convinced to sth, you use this phrase (at least in my native language).

 

[KMadCandy]

ah, thank you! so it's like when my dad says "i'd bet my hat on it".

over here we say "i'd give my right arm to beta test civ5" for example. it means that you'd give anything, you really really want that something. and i knew you meant something different!

 

[mice]

I just added up all the beakers gained by each player since Shyuhe's previous save. It's really a measure of tech trade ability in this turnset I think.

Cam 46,823 beakers

Giaur 41,771

Cabert 31,431

Fbelintani 30,935

Kmadcandy 29,000

Shyuhe 21,799

Mice 20,713

Ojevind 18,435

Quite a big variation.

I personally had a brain meltdown and didn't research optics to open up the trading potential. It really shows how the fixers do it.

 

[cabert]

I just added up all the beakers gained by each player since Shyuhe's previous save. It's really a measure of tech trade ability in this turnset I think.

Cam 46,823 beakers

Giaur 41,771

Cabert 31,431

Fbelintani 30,935

Kmadcandy 29,000

Shyuhe 21,799

Mice 20,713

Ojevind 18,435

Quite a big variation.

I personally had a brain meltdown and didn't research optics to open up the trading potential. It really shows how the fixers do it.

this doesn't take into account the potential trades still open.
In giaur's game, he can sell steel for
: democracy + scimet + MT at least.
It's a good thing he didn't do it while giving the iron to cyrus, though .
In my game, there isn't much trading opportunity left, which won't surprise those who know me

 

[KMadCandy]

hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

i not only left my last trades yet to be done, i noted it in my report *and* noted that i was trading iron to cyrus for gold and why it was safe to be greedy like that . i'm such a brat huh? but gold is gold and he was gullible, what's a girl to do?

mice i ain't the world's best fixer by any means. but if i'm better than i used to be, it's at least in part by having brain meltdowns like you did since those DOH! moments stick in your mind ! once i was oh so excited that i was gonna get democracy for free from liberalism, i was that far ahead! well, ummmmm, i forgot that i didn't only need that row of the tree, i needed printing press too. oopsies. that was a bit of a bummer. so, you ain't the only one

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Comments on your games:

Cam: Vienne runs 2 artists. Caste could allow running two more
Well placed city.

Cabert: Free speach and Verlamon is running scientist not artist.
Vinne ... the same as Cam

Shyuhe: No comments (possitive or negative)

OJevind: Research is way too small
5 GA in Delhi and no free speach?

Fbelintani: Cities are too small
Good specialist managment. However I would assign merchants in Madras

KMadCandy: No comments (possitive or negative)

Mice: No representation?

I acknowledge that I am lagging far behind the rest of you in terms of scientific output. The reason for that is that I think we *must* have more land if we are to be able to launch a speceship before anyone else. Let a GA settle in Lahore, ensure that city and hope that Ergili will revolt and join us. After that, the proper policy would be to change all the artists in Delhi to scientists and set a couple of cities on producing research, and trade technologies mercilessly. I admit that not introducing Free Speech was a mistake. As for the technology rate, that can be changed, but I'd run 10% culture for a while yet, for reasons outlined above.

 

[cabert]

I acknowledge that I am lagging far behind the rest of you in terms of scientific output. The reason for that is that I think we *must* have more land if we are to be able to launch a speceship before anyone else. Let a GA settle in Lahore, ensure that city and hope that Ergili will revolt and join us. After that, the proper policy would be to change all the artists in Delhi to scientists and set a couple of cities on producing research, and trade technologies mercilessly. I admit that not introducing Free Speech was a mistake. As for the technology rate, that can be changed, but I'd run 10% culture for a while yet, for reasons outlined above.

If you wanted land, you should have built settlers "en masse" (at least 4). Look at pigswill's report (once again, I beg for the save ), there was room for a lot more cities than what you did, without the cost of research.