Fix the 5th trash game

Roland Johansen · Apr 30, 2007

shyuhe said:
I don't remember the date of the map, unfortunately... I got my map from FDR I think, but I'm not certain. It can certainly use some updating however.

Okay.

There is a good chance that the fur or fur/silver spots haven't been claimed yet because Bismarck doesn't have any silver or fur for trading and he isn't trading it with someone else. However, the horse spot looks as if it is claimed. You can see a small part of a city border there.

But trading for Bismarcks map is certainly a smart move before anyone sends a settler to the northern lands.

KMadCandy · Apr 30, 2007

roland, reading your thoughts again, you actually need corporation to build wall street itself. but banking does let you build the banks you'll need to have in place to build WS, and is a tech we want.

i spent some time today looking at AI personalities, trying to figure who to pick and play against for a gauntlet i expect to be hard but i really need to win (vs the AI, doesn't matter how i do vs the other players :lol:

). and now i'm not at all surprised that bismarck dried up in my game when we met everybody. fb posted that his value for 'how many folks have to know a tech before he'll trade it' is 70%. well, nobody else is 70%, and the only one higher is tokugawa, at 100%! so yeah, i knew he was on the stingy side and was really surprised how much i got out of him in my game (i guess we were both bottom half altho i didn't know the entire scoreboard). but i didn't realize just how broad a definition of "monopoly tech" the guy has.

pigswill · Apr 30, 2007

Has anyone else noticed that we've got 10 spare tiles between Delhi and Vienne, plenty of space for another city. We've also got space for a fishing village to grab the clams.
Its also worthwhile checking the religion spread in t'other continent; they're all going to have diplo penalties with each other (but also with us). Is it worth swopping to NSR? (we lose pts with Cyrus and Biz but will gain overseas).
Silverfox City is nice for two happies but little else otherwise so not sure on that one.
I really don't think we're in a position to fight anyone at the moment. I'm not convinced we'll be in a position to fight anyone until economy improves. Democracy is quite tempting, so is astronomy (if we can get open borders) but there's a long way to go yet.

KMadCandy · Apr 30, 2007

i considered making that coastal city, in the territory that's already ours, to keep the clams for ourselves, but didn't get around to it in my game.

i'm still NSR in mine but was going to go jewish for the modifiers. the benefit i got from NSR was the extra culture, it really helped the cities in the south. we're getting close border tension anyway, so it didn't hurt anything. so when we want to push out borders or claim tiles, that's another factor in NSR's favor. if we've been or stay in judaism long enough to work up some +sibling bonus, and then switch out, if we switch back within some amount of time that i do not know, that bonus comes back when you see the religious light again. so you don't have to start from scratch earning it the second time, which is cool.

i think it was cam that made a city between dehli and vienne in his save. bummer that northern ponies are claimed. i want ponies. i mean, i want riflemen too of course, and modern armor and a space ship, but i want ponies.

as far as democracy being tempting ... it'll be more tempting as more of them get close to it. life sucks when others start using emancipation if it's not an option for you.

shyuhe · Apr 30, 2007

there is a free settler sitting near Delhi - he may prove useful in case you guys didn't notice him

Roland Johansen · Apr 30, 2007

KMadCandy said:
roland, reading your thoughts again, you actually need corporation to build wall street itself. but banking does let you build the banks you'll need to have in place to build WS, and is a tech we want.

You are correct. I should have been more precise, but my 'not-really-neutral bystander advice' post was already getting pretty long.

pigswill said:
Has anyone else noticed that we've got 10 spare tiles between Delhi and Vienne, plenty of space for another city. We've also got space for a fishing village to grab the clams.

I would first claim the clams and then build the fishing village. At the start of the turn set, there are various cities close to the health cap. It's always nice if you can still use many tiles that are already claimed by your culture. They are not the best cities because they will have some overlap, but as long as they will be producing an extra amount of commerce worth the 100 hammer investment of a settler, I would go for it.

However, I would first build a few cities in contested terrain. You can always build those cities inside your territory, but some other areas will get claimed if you wait.

pigswill said:
Its also worthwhile checking the religion spread in t'other continent; they're all going to have diplo penalties with each other (but also with us). Is it worth swopping to NSR? (we lose pts with Cyrus and Biz but will gain overseas).

I agree with looking for trade oppertunities with the overseas civilizations. You do first need to get contact and thus need to build a ship.

However, I think the relations with Cyrus are more important (at this point in time, that can change). You could get reasonable relations with overseas nations by some gifts or so called 'fair deals'. And once you get open borders and some resource trades, the relations will stay reasonable. At least, that works with the leaders that aren't zealots.

You will also lose the benefits from a religious civic if you are in NSR. I always like the 25% hammer bonus from organized religion and the happiness bonus from religions.

You could also check for favourite religious civics. That could help with some relations.

pigswill said:
Silverfox City is nice for two happies but little else otherwise so not sure on that one.

2 happiness throughout the empire is not enough? Hmm, that's strange, I value happiness and health resources far higher than you do apparently. It means that the happy cap won't stop you from using 2 more tiles in every city. Or you could use the resources for trading for health resources if health is the problem. Silver and furs are rare goods at the moment.

The bunch or furs that aren't even close to an ocean could even be interesting to settle close to. It will be a truely worthless city by itself, but since we would have the fur resources of the world, that could lead to some great resource trades, maybe with the overseas civilizations.

And of course silver gives 2 happiness with forges and furs give 2 happiness with markets.

pigswill said:
I really don't think we're in a position to fight anyone at the moment. I'm not convinced we'll be in a position to fight anyone until economy improves. Democracy is quite tempting, so is astronomy (if we can get open borders) but there's a long way to go yet.

I agree that the economical situation should be improved and some military techs need to be researched before war looks like a good option. I wrote my thoughts about that in more detail in my lengthy post a few posts back. Even with good preperations, it won't be a walkover.

cabert · May 1, 2007

Roland Johansen said:
2 happiness throughout the empire is not enough? Hmm, that's strange, I value happiness and health resources far higher than you do apparently. It means that the happy cap won't stop you from using 2 more tiles in every city. Or you could use the resources for trading for health resources if health is the problem. Silver and furs are rare goods at the moment.

although I globally am on the "manage happiness using all the resources available" side usually, I must say that "thoughout the empire" isn't very valuable in our situation :mischief:

.
It would be good if one of us tried it this way, though. If it turns out to be good, it's one more option to chose from.

Roland Johansen · May 1, 2007

cabert said:
although I globally am on the "manage happiness using all the resources available" side usually, I must say that "thoughout the empire" isn't very valuable in our situation .
It would be good if one of us tried it this way, though. If it turns out to be good, it's one more option to chose from.

We don't have the technology (engineering, machinery) to easily capture cities. We don't have the economy to keep up with the rest or to massively upgrade troops. So we might as well try to improve our empire while we're researching the necessary technologies. One of the best ways to improve your empire is by getting larger, more productive and more commercially interesting cities.

Small cities is bad, whether you have few cities or many.

Conquest is one of the best ways to get more resources and more cities. That's why I mentioned what resources we could get when we capture several cities from Bismarck. We are presently not strong enough to conquer Bismarck, so we should get in a position where we can conquer his cities.

I'm off to Paris. See you all in a week. Hope you all do well. :thumbsup:

Giaur · May 1, 2007

trashy save without the spoiler yet ...

cabert · May 1, 2007

my peaceful (and stupid!) trial

Spoiler :

FeedBack · May 1, 2007

You guys are sick! I just can't understand where you all get that amount of time to play, specially cabert! I think I'll join Kmad's "hate cabert" club!

Im my previous round, I went to the safe war path: Chemistry and Steel. This time I don't know if it will be possible. At 100% current science, we need 7 turns to Machinery, 9 to Engineering and 19 to Chemistry (total 35) and another 35 to steel. And we are already facing rifles. I think war now should be avoided. Democracy is, IMHO, the way to go.
For those about to rock, It may be a good thing to change civics to others' favorite (Cyrus is Vassalage, Brennus is OR, Wang is Caste System, FDR is Mercantilism, Augustus is Representation and Bismarck is Nationhood - Only Cyrus and Bismarck are mutual exclusive and we know which side to be) and change back to NSR to, at least, keep the current status of Pleased for Cyrus and trying to get someone at the other continent happy enough with us to trade techs. Roosevelt would be a great guy to trade Education with now, but we traded with his worst enemy (someone knows who? Brennus maybe? and it's a -4) and -2 for religion.

May the RNGod have mercy on us this time!

KMadCandy · May 1, 2007

fbelintani said:
I just can't understand where you all get that amount of time to play, specially cabert! I think I'll join Kmad's "hate cabert" club!

it's a fan club fb. the motto begins out with "cabert i love you but". that's a very important part of it.

yesterday i had the time to play but not the bravery. tomorrow is, how shall i phrase this ... a date on the calendar that i do not relish acknowledging the implications of, but on the bright side, i get lots of presents. that part i like a lot, and cake is one of my favorite breakfast foods

. at some point, i will play and have a write-up in earlier than i did last week (*knock wood for no power failures or alien invasions*).

Giaur · May 1, 2007

fbelintani said:
You guys are sick! I just can't understand where you all get that amount of time to play, specially cabert! I think I'll join Kmad's "hate cabert" club!

I love civ4

fbelintani said:
Roosevelt would be a great guy to trade Education with now, but we traded with his worst enemy (someone knows who? Brennus maybe? and it's a -4) and -2 for religion.

Bismarck

cabert · May 1, 2007

fbelintani said:
You guys are sick! I just can't understand where you all get that amount of time to play, specially cabert! I think I'll join Kmad's "hate cabert" club!

why me?
Giaur played earlier and better than me, why don't you hate him instead

And why don't you finish liberalism before switching to anything else? It's easy to trade.

mice · May 1, 2007

Not much to see here folks. Playing it safe.

Spoiler :

shyuhe · May 1, 2007

a very quiet builder set. I don't think my save can win :lol:

Spoiler :

KMadCandy · May 2, 2007

i played. i'm writing my spoiler but as you can guess, it's long and not yet done. non-spoilerific things that made me giggle:

i found a tree north of madras in our borders that's giving health to ergili. cyrus had previously cottaged over a tree that was shared in the cross of one of his cities and verl, so i lost my health bonus when he did that. this was revenge! i chopped it for 24 hammers towards madras's university, and to deprive him of health. take that, jerkface. it was fun.

i realized at some point that altho i thought everyone was in mercantilism, that wasn't quite true. brennus, the man who #1 taught me banking, so without a doubt he had access to the civic, #2 was running representation so specialists are even better, and #3 is spiritual for no anarchy civic changes, was in decentralization. i giggled.

i am now going to sleep and will spoilerificate the rest later.

mice and shyuhe, you did not add your names to the save files. :nono:

! Giaur is brand new and he's remembered to do it the right way every time, gold star to you Giaur!

cabert · May 2, 2007

KMadCandy said:
i am now going to sleep and will spoilerificate the rest later.

are you already older? :bday:

mice and shyuhe, you did not add your names to the save files. ! Giaur is brand new and he's remembered to do it the right way every time, gold star to you Giaur!

Did you get a policewoman uniform as birthday gift?
Still, mice you have no excuse. You played all the fix the trash games + you usually add your name, making the save automatically correctly named.
Shyhue, you have a moderate excuse, being new to the serie, but Kmad is right, adding names to the saves make the voting a lot easier.

Kmad, may I ask if it was a warrior's round or a peaceful trial?
All of us were peaceful for now, and I'd be curious to see a warlike save...
Of course, I stayed peaceful because at this point war was like a crazy gamble, so I understand others didn't try either :lol:

pigswill · May 2, 2007

Good job too:

Spoiler :

cabert · May 2, 2007

^^well pigswill, I don't think we need to give you special pass on this one. I'd still like to see the save, for the somehow different approach you used (and that I thought about using too)

Fix the 5th trash game

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Time for some FeedBack!

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