Fix the 5th trash game

[mice]

I suggest we take the least succesful game with some kind of hope (my limit would be at least 2 people willing to try it). opinions?

I think it's not a bad idea. I have already voted but I can send the extra info to Shyuhe.
In this case I think one can vote about one's own game ,?,

 

[KMadCandy]

No, man. Call me chicken, but I retired this one. No way I could have made it in time. Sorry.
It`s up to you guys if I should vote or not....

But I still wanna know why some canceled the DP with Cyrus right away... Spoiler info?

i almost never sign them in the first place. my style is really different than most of you guys in that area. this is from a post on may 6th, while we were still voting about whose save to use, so obviously back then i didn't have any spoiler information on what happens in the save we do use this round [spoilered for space, since it's not related to our next round]

Spoiler :

for me, absolutely fascinating to see how many actually did sign defensive pacts already. i simply never realized it before seeing in direct contrast with others in the same game, but my style is to keep the DP option in my back pocket. i'm just confident (perhaps overly so) that it will be still be there if i get nervous and decide i need it later, so i don't sign them ahead of time. i know they'll get me a negative with everybody else, so the act of signing one (or more) to protect me in the event of a war makes said war more likely to occur . that's just how i play, i don't even think about it really, i look at the situation and if nobody is out to get me soonish then that's what i do. i've done so many OCC games going for diplomatic victory, where i have to check relations every turn and even one point can be a deal breaker; some at very high levels. i obsess over every little detail.

i never knew the extent to which that makes me such an oddball (in that area, i know i am in other ways). obviously i did know that i have more peace-loving ways than ya'll do, especially in this game; how much that sticks out in those blue lines on the diplomatic screen that i'm keeping as the "if i need it" case but haven't connected yet, was striking to me.

even if i used as many words as i'm tempted to, i don't think i can explain quite how surprised i was that the majority did sign them, and that some signed with both sides. if i'm not in the mood for a war myself, and if there is any chance at all that one will DoW the other, then signing DPs with two parties is just something i do NOT do, because i know that even at pleased they'll do it sometimes and then bingo, messy. i didn't realize that was strange! i know that i'm weird ... but i just didn't know how common signing two DPs with two neighbors is i guess.

this isn't saying that i think those who signed DPs back then messed up. this is all a matter of playstyle. i think we can all tell i tend to be builder/prefer peace more than a lot of you, so my political decisions are affected by that, and i make different ones when i want to go to war and know i might win. i'm just explaining why i didn't sign DPs in my save from two rounds ago, why i broke cyrus's this time, and why i didn't re-sign the one with bis later this time. and defending that no, mine wasn't based on spoiler information altho admittedly it was influenced by paranoia. which started even before the first people even played and started saying vague things not in spoiler boxes *giggle*. i thought about the game situation, this seemed worth a shot; if i guessed wrong and bis declared on me, well, we had other saves to pick if i got us killed! and my round certainly did end up quite full of trash . but it was really fun playing it.

Then I did a real dirty trick and opened borders to Bismark in the hope that he can hurt Cyrus some more.I think there is no diplo modifier for this.

no diplo modifier except that it's an ongoing trade with him that anybody who doesn't like him can demand that you cancel, and then you get a - with either him for saying yes, or them for saying no. but nothing for the act of doing it. interesting that you went free religion, it helped with the other continent but it's taking a risk with our neighbors i think. and you still haven't met korea ! i guess bis had ships out so you couldn't send our caravel over, bummer. especially adding in no discount for knowing him, i'm impressed how well you did catching up on all important techs while fighting a way! i could never!

Still at war with bismarck, but the price for peace is one of my cities. Could have had peace for one of his cities 20 turns ago. too bad I didn't accept.

that's the price he says if you ask him what he wants. if you negotiate, and offer him democracy (which everybody except him knows already) for peace, he will take the offer. i didn't play forward from that point, i was just playing "what if" during my comparison. i didn't assume that you're as "i'm a wimp so i'll test all the options" as i am. *points at breaking the DP and giggles*

giaur: in your game, you have a GM napping. if you're saving him until the waters were safe to use him overseas, it's not worth it. since your write-up was so complete (says the one with the way-too-long write-up), i can't tell why he was unused. he'll give 2500g in atlanta, which is best case, but 2300g in persepolis for far less hassle. so, if we do use your save , we can get money right away *giggle*. for anybody who doesn't know the trick: select GM, hold down shift, right-click the city and then hold your cursor over the trade mission button and it'll tell you how much you'd get.

 

[KMadCandy]

I suggest we all open the saves and vote for the least succesful games, as usual, Shyuhe being the returning officer.
I just would like the voters to quote for each game they vote for if they can see it won by space race (no matter how, no matter how many turns).
Like (silly example )
"cabert, 3 votes, no way to win"

I suggest we take the least succesful game with some kind of hope (my limit would be at least 2 people willing to try it). opinions?

there's at least one game (i'm not sure whether it'll be one of my 3 trash votes yet) that does match "i think it can be won by space race". it doesn't match "i think *i* can win it by space race" . i'd certainly play the round, and i'd actually enjoy the challenge.

you mean winnable, no matter how, by the broad definition of the skill of the team, not by my own confidence in my ability as a player, is that right? because my willingness to try isn't related to my sense of optimism/possibility.

 

[FeedBack]

I'm taking a look at all the games for learning purposes.. But I gotta ask again: Should I vote or not?

 

[Cam_H]

Fbelintani,

Take my votes, as I'm under a bit of time pressure and don't really have the opportunity to do the games justice.

Therefore I won't vote this round, and you can't vote for my game as 'Trash'!

cam ... why did you re-sign the DP with bismarck after the war? i guess we did the same thing before the war, but not with exactly the same reasoning. i didn't sign the DP again, i figured it could only lead to trouble. i'm curious what you have up your sleeve.

Oh - just wary about a surprise attack from Korea and perhaps even America or Rome. I think though that I would need to watch the "hands full" matter a bit closer in case some ill intent was manifesting in some dark corner of the world, but my thinking basically is that Wang Kon (or whoever) would probably not contemplate attacking Germany-India, but he might think about India alone. Cyrus in my experience is not a backstabber, so any repeat intra-continental aggression would be from Bismark I'd say. I could be wrong!

 

[pigswill]

We're running short of games to select:
cabert
(Cam_H withdrawn by some legerdemain)
Giaur
Kmadcandy
Mice
pigswill.

 

[Cam_H]

Sorry if I wasn't clear - others can still vote for my game.

I'm just withdrawing my 'voting privilages' and handing them over to Fbel.

 

[mice]

cross post ;I thought we could vote for Cam's game because he submitted it, but Fb gets to use his vote.

but frankly, Cam's save isn't going to win this trash round.

What a strange and fascinating game it's been. Really different to the way a game would have usually gone.

 

[cabert]

We're running short of games to select:
cabert
(Cam_H withdrawn by some legerdemain)
Giaur
Kmadcandy
Mice
pigswill.

I can see all games winnable except mine.
cam's certainly isn't qualified as trash, but if you want some easy win, just take his game and finish it

 

[pigswill]

Silly me, too much overtime leads to mental collapse (also the excuse for my submission).

 

[shyuhe]

how many people are voting this round? I ahve two votes so far... Cam and I aren't voting but are there others not voting too?

 

[mice]

As I see it the voters are

Pigswill
Cabert
Giaur
Fbelintani
Kmad
Mice

 

[cabert]

if you look at giaur's signature, he may not vote. He's taking a 4 months break . I just hope it doesn't apply to this game, since we're getting a bit thin (3 retired already!).

 

[KMadCandy]

eep i didn't even see that!

 

[Cam_H]

I can see all games winnable except mine.

I'm quite convinced that I see my own games in a lesser light than others do, and wondering if you might be a bit 'down' on your submission. I actually thought that most of the submissions were pretty strong to varying degrees.

cam's certainly isn't qualified as trash, but if you want some easy win, just take his game and finish it

That " " at the end has me worried - I don't know if it means in ten turns India will get invaded and Germany won't lend an ounce of assistance ... or not!?

Anyway ... keenly waiting to see which game on which we'll build our victory.

 

[cabert]

I'm quite convinced that I see my own games in a lesser light than others do, and wondering if you might be a bit 'down' on your submission.

Well, I don't like my save because I had taken 3 german cities, could have sued for peace giving him one back some 25 turns ago, and I could have 10 good cities, have researched a lot faster and be in a better shape in every aspect.
In a solo game, after such mistakes I'd give up. It has little to do with the actual winnability.
However, I can't imagine how to come out of the tech hole I dug.

That " " at the end has me worried - I don't know if it means in ten turns India will get invaded and Germany won't lend an ounce of assistance ... or not!?

no, it's just that I thought that your game looked strong enough to allow an easy win, even for those worried about their abilities.

Anyway ... keenly waiting to see which game on which we'll build our victory.

yep, so am I
shyhue, you get to vote, but it's hard without opening the saves, so I guess we have to chose from the replies you got. Time's up anyway.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

I believe I will have the time to play the upcoming round, if you should care for an additional player.

 

[KMadCandy]

yay Ojevind! absolutely

i'm also oh so curious about which save we're going to try ... the suspense is killing me!

 

[shyuhe]

sorry for the late replies, but I've been out of the house all day on Monday (asides from the 30 minutes getting ready for work in the morning). And now it's Tuesday! *sigh*

Well, drum roll please................

Spoiler :

Cabert's game is officially trash, although it's considered unwinnable by all voters

Mice, you unfortunately (fortunately?) get the second trashiest game that's still considered winnable!

Good luck on the next round guys. If you post some screenshots, I may be able to give some advice but my laptop just can't handle the necessary graphics, CPU, or memory requirements for civ It's time to shoot for the stars! Or at least go down in flames trying

 

[KMadCandy]

shyuhe, you should have said the votes came in late! we'd never have known it was your fault! quick, edit your post and i'll edit mine to cover for ya!