FlavourMod 2

[readercolin]

I just downloaded this for .41b, and I have to say, so far, it looks good. Did run into a pair of bugs with the maps however.

Perfect World 2 - program freezes, have to exit through task manager
Erebus Continents - program freezes, have to exit through task manager

Otherwise, looking forward to being able to play FFH 2 in flavorful start locations like I did in FF.

-Colin

Edit:
Another bug - my girlfriend has the exact same download as I do (I downloaded it, handed to her on flash drive, and we both have the same FFH2 install). However, when she launches Mountain Coast in multiplayer, it gives us a grasslands map. When I launch it in multiplayer, it gives us an out of sync, but is a mountain coast map (playing on a small map - also got a most unusual error... my starting warrior was on a coast tile). When we launch in single player, neither of us has any issues. We then launched a tectonics mediterranian map (our usual map) and it worked just fine, giving us both flavorful starts.

 

[Jean Elcard]

Have you considered using perfect world 2 instead of 1?

I'm only distributing Perfect World 2 for quite some versions of FlavourMod now. If there is still a Perfect World map script, than it is a remnant of a previous version or you have it lying around in you public BtS, Warlords or Civ4 maps directory

Perfect World 2 - program freezes, have to exit through task manager
Erebus Continents - program freezes, have to exit through task manager

Yes it may seem as if the game freezes while generating these two map types, but it only seems so. Perfect World 2 and Erebus Continent take a loooong time to load, especially on a slower computer and if you want to generate big sitzed maps. Be patient, they will eventually finsih to load. It can take up to several minutes! Nevertheless usually the waiting is worth your wile.

Another bug - my girlfriend has the exact same download as I do (I downloaded it, handed to her on flash drive, and we both have the same FFH2 install). However, when she launches Mountain Coast in multiplayer, it gives us a grasslands map. When I launch it in multiplayer, it gives us an out of sync, but is a mountain coast map (playing on a small map - also got a most unusual error... my starting warrior was on a coast tile). When we launch in single player, neither of us has any issues. We then launched a tectonics mediterranian map (our usual map) and it worked just fine, giving us both flavorful starts.

Difficult to find the reason for this. Did you copy your whole civ4 directory to her computer via the flash drive or FlavourMod only? Make sure that the two civ4 directories are really the same with a file comparison tool like Beyond Compare or Total Commander's file comparison option or something similar.

Getting an all grassland map is usually a sign of the map script failing at some point while generating the map or (in multiplayer) having two different versions of the same map script or (also in multiplayer) if only one of you really has the map script and the other participant doesn't. The warrior at an coastal plot may be ann aftereffect of something else failing beforehand.

I can say for sure that ErebusContinent and Perfect World 2 are working for me and my friends in single and multiplayer games. I'm not so that sure about the mountain coast script. We are not using it in multplayer games. However I did test single player games with it without any problems.

The more work intensive way to mak sure your installations are similar would be to install everything regarding civ4 from scratch or at least to make sure of these four points:

• Beyond the Sword patch 3.19 installed?
• Fall from Heaven 0.41 installed?
• Fall from Heaven patch 0.41b installed?
• FlavourMod 2.7.4 installed? (including the recommended map scripts)

 

[Bad Player]

Jean - I haven't had a chance to try this flavourmod yet (I enjoyed your cultural mod for bts btw ), however in your initial thread post you state that this modmod uses the perfect world 1 mapscript (and link to the perfect world 1 thread), hence my confusion.

 

[Jean Elcard]

Jean - I haven't had a chance to try this flavourmod yet (I enjoyed your cultural mod for bts btw ), however in your initial thread post you state that this modmod uses the perfect world 1 mapscript (and link to the perfect world 1 thread), hence my confusion.

Now I understand. The description and the link are fixed now. Thanks.

Since you were the one asking for it (quite some time ago though), I just uploaded a merge of CLS with Better BTS AI 0.78.

 

[readercolin]

I'll try Perfect World 2 and Erebus again later then.

As for the multiplayer aspect, we haven't compared to make sure that they are the exact same. However, when one of us downloads a patch or a new mod, we give it to the other person on a thumb drive to make sure that it is indeed the exact same mod/patch. On the other hand, we both have lots of clutter from numerous FFH and modmod installs, so it wouldn't surprise me if something got mixed up in there somehow. I'll probably do a re-installation of all FFH stuff sometime soonish, and we'll see if that fixes the problem.

-Colin

 

[dreki]

Been using flavourmod for awhile and love it.

I finally udated my ffh to 41, patch c, and ran into bug. When starting it with flavour mod I get no interface (tried it with erabus continents and some default maps as well). Starting regular FFH I get the interface back (but then I don't have flavour starts

Cheers

 

[Cylnar]

I finally udated my ffh to 41, patch c, and ran into bug. When starting it with flavour mod I get no interface (tried it with erabus continents and some default maps as well). Starting regular FFH I get the interface back (but then I don't have flavour starts

That's because Kael just released patch "c" for FfH 2 0.41 and Jean hasn't had a chance to post a new version of FlavourMod to match. In the first post (where you find the link) it does say that FlavourMod 2.7.4 is for FfH 2 0.41b. So if you want to use FlavourMod you either have to use FfH 2 0.41b or give Jean a few days to update his mod.

 

[Jean Elcard]

Version 2.7.5 changelog:

• Change: Compatibility to Fall from Heaven 0.41d

Download link in the first post.

It's solely a compatibility update. It'll probaly fix your interface issues dreki (as Cylnar said). Make sure to install FfH 0.41 patch d first though.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

nothing vital, but it just came to my mind that a small liking for plains would fit the Hippus pretty well.

another thing: flavourmod now includes arctic deer spawning in tundra/ice and normal deer spawning in grassland forests, right? it would be a good idea to give the ljolsafar a liking for deer so that they can easily build their nice fyrdwells and since even arctic deer lets them build those, maybe they should get a liking for that as well... the dislike for tundra/ice should make sure that they'll rarely spawn in cold regions anyway, unless it's really the only one that fits them nicely. by that token, maybe the svartalfar could be given a small liking for tundra, to make sure that if elven nations are in the game the winter court starts in the colder forested region, and the summer court gets hotter climates. pretty flavourful of course, these should still be vastly inferior to their liking for forests in general and, for the Svartalfar, mana... that's their primary specialization and it should trample others. but you know that already

edit: the Amurites are another civ that could get a small liking for tundra since they are supposed to be neighbours to the Doviello and Illians, close to Letum Frigus and stuff. don't they already have a small liking for that Unique Feature due to the fact that it can give them a golden age?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

one more thing: since agrarianism+aristocracy is so much better when your lands have a lot of grasslands ( due to the fact that you don't lose the hammer you would lose on plains ) , and aristograrian is basically the alternative to cottages as far as commerce generation goes, I really think that the 2 civs that favour cottages ( bannor due to demagogues spawning from towns, and kuriotates due to their enclaves ) should have a flavour for plains.

I hope I made myself clear enough with this post, but I'd like to debate the reason. basically, having a territory choke full of grassland greatly encourages going aristograrian and spamming farms everywhere, which clashes with the way the bannor and kurios should be played ( i.e. cottage spam ) .

being one of these 2 civs and starting in grassland really gives a headache, because aristograrian+farmspam is clearly the way to go, but that way you give up one of your civilization's unique assets. furthermore, cottages show their best when you build them ASAP, building them later is not nearly as profitable. ESPECIALLY for the kurios, since enclaves take a looong time to even come into existence, let alone be there long enough to make a difference.

so starting in grasslands, spamming aristograrian farms, then expanding into territory with lots of plains and spamming cottages there is really subpar. which means that what really matters is the terrain you start in, not the one you expand in later. the starting terrain should really be plains imho, so that you can plant cottages there and use that benefit throughout the whole game. after that, you can even expand into grassland-heavy territory, go aristograrian and spam farms there. no big deal.

starting in plains, or a mixed grass/plains territory would be a lot better, since agrarianism is so incredibly good that you should always farm grasslands and cottage plains, since all the other alternatives in the economy line of civics, aside from the obvious guardian of nature for FoL civs, are badly lacking in power compared to the almighty agrarianism ( unless you really specialize your strategy towards one of the others, like going foreign trade and spamming buildings that give bonuses to trade route yield and build the great lighthouse, which pretty much works neatly only with the lanun and their coastal cities ) , which is also available right from the start, so you often end up specializing your strategy for agrarianism, at which point switching and losing SO MUCH food really, really hurts considering that you've made all your maths taking THAT amount of food into account.

so long story short, Bannor and Kuriotates would really benefit from a flavour for plains imho.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

just noticed that the Erebus mapscript has a section that states what kind of terrain the various unique improvements prefer to spawn in. this sounds like a nice idea, and would prevent unflavourful things like yggdrasil in ice, standing stones in desert etc. ( these are the first to come to mind cuz I've just seen this in the game )

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

one more thing I've noticed: it seems that the food/hammer/commerce balancer function of flavourmod clashes with PW2 and ErebusContinent, since these mapscripts allocate additional resources in certain starts to make up for the fact that the sorrounding terrain is low quality, so flavourmod seems to consider them better than they actually are since it does not consider the terrain sorrounding the starting spot.

btw, does this function also take into account the new civ-specific special abilities like Orcs receiving no health from jungles, when evaluating terrain? that would be pretty sweet

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

one thing linked to FF's forest deer: they seem to be way too common, especially in starting spots where they're often used to sweeten food-poor spots due to having normalize=1 in the XML. since the whole point of their existence in the first place is to make it so that elves can build their fyrdwells without the need to go to polar regions to get deer ( which would be very odd ) , I think deer should be treated as a strategic resource, be about as common as horses, spawn only in forested grasslands, never get used to sweeten starting spots, and the ljolsalfar should have a flavour to start near them .

otoh, arctic deer ( which imho should be renamed moose and get a new icon to avoid confusion ) should not allow to build fyrdwell since they're NOT deer, but they're fine as a food resource that can be used to sweeten starting spots with crappy tundra or ice ( in fact, they're great at that).

one could say that pigs should get the same treatment of course, but those seem to be a lot less common than deer on all the maps I've generated, although I feel that a "Boar" resource that gets tagged as a strategic resource, used to build dwarven boar riders and to differentiate it from the food resource "pigs" would be a nice thing, for the reasons stated above about deer.

also, plains doesn't seem to fit the Chislev in any particular way. it would be nice to have them start at the edge of the jungle, so they're more likely to start near their sworn enemies Clan of Embers. it would be even better if they could really start next to the clan if they're in the game. the whole concept of civs starting near lore-based neighbours is very interesting, as xienwolf says, although complicated to link to the current terrain-based system. isn't what Cultural based starts is all about btw?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

how does the code determine whether or not to change a plot to marsh right now?

it seems pretty overdone honestly, there's quite a lot of marsh scattered all over the map wherever a river flows. quite a lot of would-be riverside grassland becomes marsh, and some riverside plains as well. definitely not limited to jungle regions. it seems a bit excessive to me, because it makes Scorch very very desirable, definitely too much imho. I think marsh should clump a lot more into the wettest regions of the map, so that scorch is still useful in some places and situations, but not everywhere and for everyone due to the need to get rid of them next to rivers.

of course, I'm pretty sure the new climate system you're working on will address this. can't wait to see how that turns out in the end

a couple more questions from looking at your code:

1) why doviello like FEATURE_ICE? doesn't it make them likely to spawn near coast in icy regions ? TERRAIN_SNOW seems to make more sense to me... same for Illians. just not sure what this FEATURE_ICE thing means exactly

2) why hippus dislike ocean and snow? sure, they don't have a flavor for them but I don't see why they should shun more than anyone else. I've seen them start in a terrain with lots of hills and forest, I'm pretty sure it was because it was way inland and they dislike ocean.

3) similar question: why ljolsafar dislike for tundra and khazad for coast? again, they may not favour them particularly but shouldn't shun them particularly either. although here I may see the dwarves preferring inland places, and the ljosalfar preferring hot places ( summer court ) are these the reasons?

4) why scions .changeSearchAreaSize(+1) ? it makes sense for the Kurios, but the scions don't have increased bity radius.

I'm pretty sure you have your good reasons for all of these, just curious about what they are. this code is pretty interesting to look at since it's very easy to understand what it does

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

some more ideas:

Cuall and Mazatl should definitely get a flavour for Marsh, stronger than that for Grassland.

If you ever decide to add commerce and production to the flavourful normalization code, metals are obviously out of the equation to improve production. there's not any not-strategic resource that boosts production, but actually marble will do just fine for that ( perfectworld2 uses that and it works fine, no big advantage there ) . you could also go ahead and add stone as a resource that can be used for normalization, and either give no benefit aside from improved yields, or go ahead and give it a bonus to production for walls, some wonders and whatever else might seem to make sense. otoh, commerce should be no problem as there's no shortage of commerce resources, as long as they're not strategic also ( no incense for example ) .

about that normalization code, I feel like sometimes right now it is overdone. I think one way to make it more fair would be to also take into consideration the improved health/happiness that resources give. so, the additional health/happy given by resources should be taken into account ( 1 point of health could be valued as much as 1 food, since that's the amount it saves, while 1 point of happy would be 2 food since an unhappy citizen costs 2 food ) . aside from this, I guess even the raw number of resources ( i.e. no matter if they are all of the same kind - all cows for example ) in the BFC should be considered, as you can trade those extra ones for other resources. lastly, the extra health from freshwater could be taken into account also. this should make it more fair. also, the function should probably be disabled on perfectworld2 and erebuscontinent, as those already have a similar function and they don't work well together, it gets redundant ( way too many resources in starting BFC ) . I guess it does that already, but it should try to add the least possible number of different resources.

similarly, marsh should probably not get added to mapscripts that already have them. Erebuscontinent and Erebus off the top of my head, also Mountaincoast iirc.

that's all for the time being. sorry for being such a nagger, I really appreciate your work

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

might be nice to add a flavour for Cows, Sheep and Pigs to the Archos, since their nest city gets a bonus from those.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

one issue: the Lanun should probably get their flavour for OCEAN instead of COAST. right now flavourmod is quite content with having them start next to a small lake in the middle of a huge landmass, which is very bad for them

 

[Neomega]

Just have to say, I've been trying out FF, and then I see this thread... I really loved the citadels/forts goblin fort chokepoints, and the end of winter sea of ice thing. It really added some new fun to ffh2.

 

[lymond]

I'm receiving a memory allocation error when loading saves with Flavourmod. I've never had issues with any form of CIV or FFH at all. These crashes were occurring infrequently but appear to be happening more frequent of late. I'm playing my first Flavourmod game and using the Perfect World map. Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

[Shano]

Hey just got to say great mod really enjoying flavoured starts!

Unfortunatly I have a problem with loading autosaves, I get memory allocation failure and I don't know whats wrong. Using FfH version .41d if thats any help.

Just wondering if anyone noticed a similar problem or is it just me?

Thanks in advance