Forts

[Kailric]

Forts where definately big during the wild west and I know a lot of us would like to see them in the game so I was wondering just how forts should be implemented. So what are all the thoughts on forts?

I am uploading the first test version of Forts. Right now its a stand alone ModComp.

Forts V.06
DOWN LOAD HERE

New Rules and Features Here

Change Log: Version 0.5 4/12010

-Cannons have new functionality for Bombarding see below
- AI may attempt to guard forts in its territory
- SDK has been added


Previous:
1. I am moving the "Rule Book" and description to the Modcomp page mentioned above so I don't have to update two pages.
2. Just made a few minor tweaks you may or may not notice
3. Added the First Cheat Feature for testing purposes. If you have Cheats enambled just hold down Alt and Ctrl when you click to build any Improvement and it will auto build. I use this for testing Forts.

 

[TC01]

Well, my idea was that after a Fort was built, a unit could move onto the tile and "Claim Fort" (a new command) that would spread the unit's owner's culture around the fort. It would also create a Fort Commander unit on the plot, an immobile unit. As long as the Fort Commander remained on the plot, the culture would persist.

If the Commander is killed, the culture goes away and someone else can claim the fort to spread their culture in the same way.

 

[Kailric]

Well, my idea was that after a Fort was built, a unit could move onto the tile and "Claim Fort" (a new command) that would spread the unit's owner's culture around the fort. It would also create a Fort Commander unit on the plot, an immobile unit. As long as the Fort Commander remained on the plot, the culture would persist.

If the Commander is killed, the culture goes away and someone else can claim the fort to spread their culture in the same way.

Can any unit claim the fort or just military units?

 

[TC01]

I think it should only be military units.

 

[KJ Jansson]

"Forts" should be in the Civ4Colonization. I already collected some information about this interesting addition.

I guess:

1. Fort can be built outside the culture borders. Details here.

2. Forts can attack nearby enemy units. Details here.

I hope these links also would be useful, too:

[BtS] JImprovementLimit: Tighter Control

Spoiler :

This mod addes several new tags to the ImprovementInfos XML file, allowing much more control over where Improvements can be built. To demonstrate the use of these tags, I have added two new Improvements and modified Forts a bit. The two added Improvments, Castle and Citadel, are copied, in name atleast, from Fall from Heavon 2.

First, a new tag now allows you to set the minimum number of Tiles that must be between the same types of Improvements. This works similar to the way Cities must have atleast 2 Tiles between them.

Second, a new tag allows to limit Improvements from being built inside of Culture Borders. This is ment to be used inconjunction with the bOutsideBorders tag.

Third, a new tag allows you to set a Required Improvement for the building of another Improvement. For example, in the mod, you can only build a Castle Improvement on a Tile that already has a Fort Improvement built on it.

Requires: Civilization 4: Beyond the Sword v3.17
Thread: JImprovement Mod Discussion
Sources: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downlo...=file&id=10347

JFort v0.31

[BtS] JFortZoC v0.210: Forts Extending Borders or here.

JZoC Mod: Simple Zone of Control

 

[TC01]

If possible, ranged combat for the fort commander units as implemented in Orbis and all those other FFH 2 modmods would be nice. (Most of my ideas are coming from there).

I think that's better than the modcomp for Forts attacking units.

 

[Kailric]

If possible, ranged combat for the fort commander units as implemented in Orbis and all those other FFH 2 modmods would be nice. (Most of my ideas are coming from there).

I think that's better than the modcomp for Forts attacking units.

I never played Orbis so how exactly does ranged combat work?

"Forts" should be in the Civ4Colonization.

Actually, I plan on making Forts a modcomp so others can use it in their mods, then just porting it over to Westward Ho

 

[TC01]

It's regular air combat (like planes have in vanilla Civ)- all I meant was that Orbis gives Fort Commanders this ability.

But I bet air combat isn't in Colonization...

 

[Kailric]

Anyone know of some good unit art to use for the fort commander?

 

[Kailric]

K, I am thinking on fort requirements. Should forts just cost gold as all the other improvements? Sense forts extend a players borders, adds defense bonus to units in the square and allows the player to place defensive choke points or guard resources it would seem a little to simple just to be able to plop down forts all over. Or could we add a little extra to forts in requireing them to have extra building materials or you can only build one per city you own, say a City can only support one fort as some quick ideas.

Any more Ideas?

Also, I could add an upgrade system where you can upgrade your forts. Say take a wagon load of lumber and tools out to the fort and the wagon will have a command to "Upgrade Fort". When you upgrade a Fort its borders extend and defense bonus goes up.

 

[Androrc the Orc]

K, I am thinking on fort requirements. Should forts just cost gold as all the other improvements? Sense forts extend a players borders, adds defense bonus to units in the square and allows the player to place defensive choke points or guard resources it would seem a little to simple just to be able to plop down forts all over. Or could we add a little extra to forts in requireing them to have extra building materials or you can only build one per city you own, say a City can only support one fort as some quick ideas.

Any more Ideas?

Also, I could add an upgrade system where you can upgrade your forts. Say take a wagon load of lumber and tools out to the fort and the wagon will have a command to "Upgrade Fort". When you upgrade a Fort its borders extend and defense bonus goes up.

I like the idea of the forts requiring resources to build as well as gold.

 

[TC01]

I definitely like the upgradable forts idea.

As for limits, KJ Jansson linked to a Jeckel modcomp JImprovementLimits, which lets you specify a minimum distance between improvements. I think that would be the best way to have a limit on the number of Forts.

 

[Androrc the Orc]

I definitely like the upgradable forts idea.

As for limits, KJ Jansson linked to a Jeckel modcomp JImprovementLimits, which lets you specify a minimum distance between improvements. I think that would be the best way to have a limit on the number of Forts.

But what if certain areas would warrant a "cluster" of forts in real life?

 

[KJ Jansson]

Anyone know of some good unit art to use for the fort commander?

Here one of possible variants. I redraw Great General in colors of artillery officer. I guess this military speciality is most closed to the Fort Commander.

Icon:



FullLenghtButton:



Game screen:

 

[TC01]

But what if certain areas would warrant a "cluster" of forts in real life?

Well then, what do you think the distance limit should be?

I'd say there should not be Forts allowed right next to each other, so at least a distance of 1. 2 or 3 I think is good (depending on how far culture is extended).

Perhaps we could make the Level 1 Fort ("Outpost"?) have a smaller limit than the Level 2 Fort ("Fort"), and you wouldn't be able to upgrade an Outpost to a Fort if the Outpost was within the range of other Forts?

 

[Kailric]

Ok, here is what I have coded so far and I have pictures to show:

Here is a newly built fort:

Notice there is no Borders around the above fort. In order to get borders you must move a armed soldier into the fort and either Fortify or Sentry:

Now, as long as at least one unit stays in the fort the borders around the fort will be claimed by that player.

To upgrade a Fort to the next level you must move a Wagon loaded with 100 lumber and 100 guns into the fort and select the Upgrade Fort command, Notice the borders increase to cover all squares touching the fort:

Then the Fort will become a Fortress (or what ever we choose to call it):

Now if you ever leave a fort undefended for One full turn you will loose the Borders around the fort:

Thats how things work so far and it works well. I still have to add in Fort Commanders somehow.

Now here is an idea. Should forts be supported by cities in order to extend borders. Like the Fort has to be connected by roads to a City in order to extend borders?

Also, there really should be a way to limit the number of forts being built. Maybe they cost gold each turn, or only so many per city, but there needs be something or the player can just take over the whole map with just forts.

 

[TC01]

I still like the required "buffer" range around each Fort idea. I also like the city support idea.

As for costing gold a turn- perhaps Fort Commanders (once implemented) could have a support cost? So the more Fort Commanders you have on the map the faster you loose money (speaking of which, I need to find a better graphic for money in Westward Ho) and if you are broke your Fort Commanders will disband and you'll loose the culture around Forts.

 

[Kailric]

I still like the required "buffer" range around each Fort idea. I also like the city support idea.

As for costing gold a turn- perhaps Fort Commanders (once implemented) could have a support cost? So the more Fort Commanders you have on the map the faster you loose money (speaking of which, I need to find a better graphic for money in Westward Ho) and if you are broke your Fort Commanders will disband and you'll loose the culture around Forts.

Yeah, a "buffer" sounds good, much like cities are now. Also, lets say that each City can only support two forts that must be connected by roads and also maybe a minimum distance, that is you can't build forts more than 6 tiles away from supporting city.

I am still thinking on Fort Commanders (thanks KJ for the Commander Unit) and what would be the best and coolest way to implement them. I like to be original in concept instead of just copying someone else so still considering other ideas besides what we already know in other Mods.

Maybe Fort Commanders are similar to Great Generals and each turn you control forts increases your chance that a unit guarding a fort will be promoted to Fort Commander.. or something like that.

Also, Forts could work to gather Bonus Resources. Say in the pictures above the Fort would start to gather the bonus tobacco for the city it is connected too as long as the player owns the fort and its connected by roads. This would make Fort placement a lot more strategic.

Edit: Maybe cities can only support 2 Outpost and 1 Fort.

 

[KJ Jansson]

.... each City can only support two forts that must be connected by roads and also maybe a minimum distance, that is you can't build forts more than 6 tiles away from supporting city.
Edit: Maybe cities can only support 2 Outpost and 1 Fort.

Agree.

However, the road between the town and the fort should also on both land and water tiles. Otherwise it would be impossible to build Forts on the islands that protect the entrance to the harbor city. And such forts are very interesting at the time when you declare your independence.

Maybe Fort Commanders are similar to Great Generals and each turn you control forts increases your chance that a unit guarding a fort will be promoted to Fort Commander.. or something like that.

In such case Fort Commander should be fighting (battle) unit and have some defensive bonuses.
A colonist, long time located in the fort gets a specialty of Fort Soldier (low defence bonus), and then Fort Commander (additional defence bonus).
Moreover, the Fort Commander must be the only one in each fort.

Also, Forts could work to gather Bonus Resources. Say in the pictures above the Fort would start to gather the bonus tobacco for the city it is connected too as long as the player owns the fort and its connected by roads. This would make Fort placement a lot more strategic.

Agree. The сonstruction of the fort has two objectives: protection of the city and capture the resource. It makes no sense to seize the resource, if it is impossible to obtain.

 

[Kailric]

Ok, here is an idea. Forts could require support froms towns in that they must be connected by roads and the town must provide food for the fort. It would work much like adding a Colonist to the town. When you mouse over food in the city management screen it will display how many forts the town is supporting.

Edit: In order for a fort to gather a bonus resource the resource must be connected by road and also have the appropriate Improvement.. like Tobacco needs farm.


Edit: Well I think its going to be a lot of coding for me to add checks to see if plots are connected by roads as Colonization does not have the "Plot Grouping" system that Civ4 has. In Civ4 there where trade networks and such and a whole set of code just to keep track of all that stuff. I'll have to look into it more and see what I can do. I may have to come up with my own system which would take longer than expected.