Fossils Resource

[Vokarya]

I've been thinking about what we would have to do in order to add a Fossils resource to the mod. I think it would be a nice add-on in a limited format.

First of all, there only needs to be one Fossils resource. We don't need different kinds of Fossils -- that's just too much specificity. One Fossil is enough.

Secondly, I would want Fossils to be quite rare; about as common on the map as Ancient Relics. However, I would give Fossils the ability to be found by Mines. On the other hand, I don't think Fossils would deplete, because they would not be tapped by any Mine.

The appropriate techs would be Archeology to reveal, Biology to enable. For an improvement, I would rename the current Archeological Dig as Dig Site and let it work for both Ancient Relics and Fossils. I really don't like single-resource improvements.

For effects, I would give a roster similar to Ancient Relics:

• +5% commerce from Museum. This is identical to Ancient Relics.
• Double production speed of Theory of Evolution. Unlike a Wonder or Building, you cannot require a resource for a Project, but you can give a production bonus to the Project.
• Counts for Adventure Tours corporation, providing +2 and +3% to the Franchise. Only AT benefits from Fossils; Safari Hunters deals with living animals and MileHigh is for luxury travel. Neither of those would benefit from Fossils.

The really hard part is that we would have to add Fossils to every Private Map and check every map script. It doesn't look to me like most scripts care too much about resources, but every private map does.

 

[Afforess]

There are some details missing. What yield change does a Fossil provide for the tile it is located on? What terrains are fossils valid for (you hinted at hills, any others?)

The roster feels thin, and I have some thoughts on it. First, with the Museum, does it give +5% from Ancient Relics right now? Because that seems wrong - 5% is a lot (any percent is a lot) and commerce is too vague. I would be in favor of something like 1 and 2 instead. The same applies to fossil.

Overall I am worried the resource is not strong enough to stand on its own. Has fossils ever been an important resource that nation-states have cared about? I can't think of anything to pad out the resource either, which is a bad sign.

 

[Rezca]

Deserts probably. I'd say Tundra also, for Ice Age-ish animals (Cryolophosaurus was also found in such a location) but I'm a bit unsure on how that would turn out game-play wise.


From what C2C does with the resource, it has additional buildings that provide small boosts to science if another resource is also present in the city vicinity - so it has building specifically centered on the Fossil beds. I don't feel that would be all too good of an idea, but it's a possibility. I mean, one single building involving Fossils maybe, but not half a dozen like C2C.
An idea might be having some Transhuman tech provide some bonus along with the resource, modifying its yields or unlocking some building... Kinda like what Smart Drugs does with the Pharmacy? Assuming we're straying away from 'fantasy' (i.e Zoo Tycoon's "Dinosaur" expansion, and so on) then that might also very well be a questionable idea as well.


I would like to see Fossils in, but like some of the recently cut techs and buildings: If we can't "make it work" then... Well, it'd have to be shelved for the time being. =/

 

[Noyyau]

I always assumed "Ancient Relics" to be a general catch-all resource symbolizing anything that was found in archeological expeditions, be they ancient human artifacts or pre-human fossils.

 

[Vokarya]

There are some details missing. What yield change does a Fossil provide for the tile it is located on? What terrains are fossils valid for (you hinted at hills, any others?)

For terrains, I would do Hills/Peaks/Tundra/Desert/Plains. No Marsh, no Grasslands. Yields would be the same as Relics: +5 with Dig. As I said, Fossils would be somewhat rare, so a big bonus wouldn't be too out of line.

The roster feels thin, and I have some thoughts on it. First, with the Museum, does it give +5% from Ancient Relics right now? Because that seems wrong - 5% is a lot (any percent is a lot) and commerce is too vague. I would be in favor of something like 1 and 2 instead. The same applies to fossil.

The Museum currently gets +5% from Relics. It probably is too strong, but I would actually be in favor of a flat +2 from each of Relics and Fossils and let your sliders take care of the rest.

Overall I am worried the resource is not strong enough to stand on its own. Has fossils ever been an important resource that nation-states have cared about? I can't think of anything to pad out the resource either, which is a bad sign.

I see it as much like Ancient Relics. It's kind of a curiosity and good for some potential trade. I have one more idea lurking in the back of my head that could also benefit from Fossils. I think right now Fossils have just as much interface as Ancient Relics

 

[<Nexus>]

1)
If you are about to introduce fossils and rework maps&mapscripts, I think you should also consider what other resources could/should be added.
For example camels and prime timber were also mentioned before.
Camels are something I would like to see in the mod as an alternative to horses.

Camel cavalry
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Camel cavalry, or camelry, is a generic designation for armed forces using camels as a means of transportation. Sometimes warriors or soldiers of this type also fought from camel-back with spears, bows or rifles.

Camel cavalry were a common element in desert warfare throughout history due in part to the animal's high level of adaptability. They provided a mobile element better suited to work and survive in an arid and waterless environment than the horses of conventional cavalry. The smell of the camel, according to folklore, alarms and disorients horses, making camels an effective anti-cavalry weapon. For this purpose Emperor Claudius is said to have brought a detachment of camel cavalry as part of his invasion force for conquering Britain.

The first recorded use of the camel as a military animal is by the Arab king Gindibu, who is claimed to have employed as many as 1000 camels at the Battle of Qarqar in 853 BC. A later instance occurred in the Battle of Thymbra in 547 BC, fought between Cyrus the Great of Persia and Croesus of Lydia. According to Xenophon, Cyrus' cavalry were outnumbered by as much as six to one. Acting on information from one of his generals that the Lydian horses shied away from camels, Cyrus formed the camels from his baggage train into an ad hoc camel corps. Although not technically employed as cavalry, they were crucial in panicking the Lydian cavalry and turning the battle in Cyrus' favor.

The camel was used in this way by many civilizations, especially in Arabia and North Africa. Both camel and rider were sometimes armored like the contemporary cataphracts. The Arabs used camels to great effect against their horse-mounted European enemies during the Muslim conquests. Napoleon used camels for his French campaign in Egypt and Syria.

During the late 19th and much of the 20th centuries, camel troops were used for desert policing and patrol work in the British, French, German, Spanish and Italian colonial armies. Descendants of such units still form part of the modern Indian, Moroccan and Egyptian armies. The British-officered Egyptian Camel Corps played a significant role in the 1898 Battle of Omdurman; one of the few occasions during this period when this class of mounted troops took part in substantive numbers in a set-piece battle. The Ottoman Army maintained camel companies as part of its Yemen and Hejaz Corps, both before and during World War I.

Camels are still used by the Jordanian Desert Patrol.

So the main features of camel cavalry could be:

• weaker and cheaper than horse units
• bonus against horse based units
• dessert bonus

2) I like the fossils idea. IMO it could also have a wonder like the Rosetta stone for the relics.

 

[youmakemefart]

I've been thinking about what we would have to do in order to add a Fossils resource to the mod. I think it would be a nice add-on in a limited format.

First of all, there only needs to be one Fossils resource. We don't need different kinds of Fossils -- that's just too much specificity. One Fossil is enough.

Secondly, I would want Fossils to be quite rare; about as common on the map as Ancient Relics. However, I would give Fossils the ability to be found by Mines. On the other hand, I don't think Fossils would deplete, because they would not be tapped by any Mine.

The appropriate techs would be Archeology to reveal, Biology to enable. For an improvement, I would rename the current Archeological Dig as Dig Site and let it work for both Ancient Relics and Fossils. I really don't like single-resource improvements.

For effects, I would give a roster similar to Ancient Relics:

• +5% commerce from Museum. This is identical to Ancient Relics.
• Double production speed of Theory of Evolution. Unlike a Wonder or Building, you cannot require a resource for a Project, but you can give a production bonus to the Project.
• Counts for Adventure Tours corporation, providing +2 and +3% to the Franchise. Only AT benefits from Fossils; Safari Hunters deals with living animals and MileHigh is for luxury travel. Neither of those would benefit from Fossils.

The really hard part is that we would have to add Fossils to every Private Map and check every map script. It doesn't look to me like most scripts care too much about resources, but every private map does.

I strongly oppose the idea of cramming as many ressources as possible onto the map. If you MUST add such a ressource, at least it should do something for science output...

 

[Arakhor]

I don't think Fossils are necessary. They sound very similar to Ancient Relics, both thematically and mechanically, and you end up with two rare resources that do much the same thing.

 

[Rezca]

Come back after a long absense and see most people are opposed to the idea... Ah well it was worth a try I guess =/


We already cut back on some 'resources' (Artificial man-made ones but resources nonetheless) and if we were going to cut back on more we would need to get rid of things like Methane Ice - which I've almost never seen actually be useful or relevant to a game, given how late it comes into play and how it generally relies on a city being in the right place at the right time, as well as not speeding anything up enabling anything or providing bonuses of any kind. All it does is give some modifiers to that plot, and by that time in the game there's little use in that.

Methane Ice I like the idea of, Fossils as well. They might not be outstandingly awesome and unique resources that change the world or grant unimaginable power to those that own them, but they're nice ideas nonetheless. There's lots of resources that have a production/industrial use, and many that have an economical use, but not many that have a scientific use to them.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I must say that I don't see the need for Fossils resource. But that might change depending on what's your idea lurking in the back of your head.

 

[RyoHazuki]

Its ok for me as long as it is very rare to be found.

 

[Rezca]

I must say that I don't see the need for Fossils resource. But that might change depending on what's your idea lurking in the back of your head.

To be fully honest? For me it's like my fascination with Shinto getting into the mod. My personal interests and hobbies mixed with 'Just because it'd be cool'

Would it seriously majorly contribute to the game? Unlikely.
Would it ever be enough to be considered adding? Possibly, hence this thread.
Would it be worth that discussion to add in? Doesn't seem like it, given the responses so far


I've been long since fascinated with Japanese culture and tradition, started oh... I guess back when I first started reading Arakawa's Fullmetal Alchemist? The series of 'Touhou' shooters helped push me into actually looking in to the region's mythologies and older traditions. When I found C2C had Shinto I was actually really excited


Fossils as a resource is pretty much the same, though has a less interesting 'history' behind it.

As said, I do think it could work as a resource, but right now the question seems to be 'how many want it to work?' Currently, I think I'm the only one expressing enthusiasm at the idea =/

 

[Afforess]

Fossils don't really have a history at all. They have always been around and are basically a scientific curiosity. They don't contribute to any meaningful research or development. (I imagine paleontologists will jump at me here, but seriously...) They are fairly common, and outside of being a novelty tourist item, serve no use.

 

[Rezca]

Fossils don't really have a history at all. They have always been around and are basically a scientific curiosity. They don't contribute to any meaningful research or development. (I imagine paleontologists will jump at me here, but seriously...) They are fairly common, and outside of being a novelty tourist item, serve no use.

Paleontology is just another branch of science in a way, though it wouldn't logically contribute to "research" as we know it in Civilization IV (But then again, Ancient Relics would hardly do so either) but they both might to a vague extent. Hardly when it comes to things like Hydrogen Fuel Cells, Invisibility, Nuclear Power, etc...

Neither really seem very 'important' to the mod but... I don't know, if there was an 'Exotic Resources' modmod / option, I could totally see Fossils being included in that, but right now it seems like the majority just doesn't want it in ^^;

Now granted, if we decided to do a bit of scif/fantasy they could be useful for things come Artificial Life and other late-game techs, but as I've already seen plenty of comments to the effect of "AND is going to be like C2C!!" I don't think that would be all too great an idea at this point. Cool, yes. Useful, unlikely.



Ah well.

 

[Afforess]

Right. Remember you are talking to the person who added "No future option" because the transhuman era disgusts me...

 

[Rezca]

Right. Remember you are talking to the person who added "No future option" because the transhuman era disgusts me...

I did not know that actually :O

 

[Afforess]

I did not know that actually :O

With source control as my witness. (1529 days ago)

 

[Vokarya]

I haven't given up on this idea yet, and I really want to go through with adding Fossils. I think Fossils make a good counterpoint to Ancient Relics; both boost Museum and Adventure Tours, and Fossils boosts Theory of Evolution, Pleistocene Park, and Dinosaur Park while Relics help Rosetta Stone and MileHigh Travels. Most non-strategic resources come in pairs or (usually) trios, and I don't really like solo resources or improvements that only do one thing (like the Archeological Dig currently does).

I don't mind having Mines and Quarries spawn Fossils, but I do want to have some spawn at the beginning of the game. I think if we put Fossils in the same placement step as Relics, then it won't crowd out any more important resources.

 

[Rezca]

I haven't given up on this idea yet, and I really want to go through with adding Fossils. I think Fossils make a good counterpoint to Ancient Relics; both boost Museum and Adventure Tours, and Fossils boosts Theory of Evolution, Pleistocene Park, and Dinosaur Park while Relics help Rosetta Stone and MileHigh Travels. Most non-strategic resources come in pairs or (usually) trios, and I don't really like solo resources or improvements that only do one thing (like the Archeological Dig currently does).

I don't mind having Mines and Quarries spawn Fossils, but I do want to have some spawn at the beginning of the game. I think if we put Fossils in the same placement step as Relics, then it won't crowd out any more important resources.

All sounds reasonable to me so far, if they're an Uncommon/Rare resource it shouldn't crowd out the others too much right?

 

[aggri1]

I vote against the addition of Fossils as a resource.