Fox-30: The Sly Fox

[phungus420]

Lurker's Comment:

With the strength of this team, you should really consider dissallowing the Great Wall Great Spy move. It's been done to death, and is very strong. And this team might be more satisfied with a wee bit more of a challenge.

 

[r_rolo1]

^^The big issue is how to steal CoL ( for spies ) without EP

Yeah, I know that we don't need Alpha for CoL, but if we go to go into the tech tree skimming alpha until we want , how about doing it until the very last moment ( that is when we want Printing Press )?

 

[Cheron]

lurker's comment:

What's the sense in playing a variant if you start to think how to get around it('s spirit) even before the first turnset?

(No offense meant, I'm just... wondering.)

 

[r_rolo1]

Not turning around... but this discussion was made in the RBtS1 games word by work. Pushing Alpha to the very end is a very sleazy way , I agree... but if you miss the GW and want to beeline Alpha and then steal, I don't see any solution for the variant besides begging or "liberate" a AI from CoL

P.S. You can bulb CoL with a GP ( completely impratical de to the fact that CoL is the last of the religion techs to be bulbed with a GP and comes after Myst in the list, making it very unlikely ), a GE ( but only after machinery and other pre reqs, making it impratical again ) and a GM ( the less unlikely , but that needs no Maths ( to block Currency ) and no BW ( to block MC ). The big problem is that the only GM GPP source without MC ( Collosus ), Currency (Markets ) and CoL itself ( Caste System ) is GLH..... )

 

[Jabah]

What about saying we have to beeline straight to Alpha (click Alpha on F6 on T0 and don't change it), missing most of the basics tech that we will have to steal/trade (trade should be relatively easy for most of them).

If we play without GW, we do have to find a way to get the first EP going (probably by being allowed to tech to Col)

 

[r_rolo1]

Well, we can always Oracle CoL.....

But we need a good set of rules for this SG.....

How about:

-No GW ( optional ... depends of how hard we want this to be)

-We're allowed to research early worker techs ( i.e. : Fishing, Agriculture, Wheel, AH, Minining, BW and Masonry ) and any tech in the path to alpha ( giving us the option of choosing the Priesthood or the Pottery Path to writing )

-As said before by Mr Fox, we can bulb , Oracle, Internet techs. Not sure of buying them for cash...

- No brokering, maybe? Stolen tech do not count for that.....

 

[ruff_hi]

Sounds good but I wouldn't have 'no broking' turned on or played by us. I see this game as ...

"bah!! - research is for idiots, our ancestors did that and where did that get them ... NO-WHERE! Thats where. Our motto is - you learn, we take. Sure, sometimes we might give you something but only so that we can take something nicer."

 

[T_McC]

^^The big issue is how to steal CoL ( for spies ) without EP

If we play without GW, we do have to find a way to get the first EP going (probably by being allowed to tech to Col)

lurker's comment:
Isn't the Espionage slider available from turn 0?

Yeah, I know. Only the AI is dumb enough to run an espionage tax in the early game ...

edit: Actually, it's available from the first turn you meet another player. Mea Culpa.

 

[LKendter]

lurker's comment:
I am confused. I thought alphabet gave the ability to build spies.

Is the concern about code of law to get courts to hire spy specialists?

 

[r_rolo1]

^^phungus420 asked if we could do a a no GW game. That forces us to get CoL for spy specialists ( the slider is pretty inneficient in early days )... as you stated in your second paragraph.

Now that you're talking about it, why not use Sumeria? They have ziggurats with Priesthood

 

[Olodune]

Lurker:

The spy slider isn't that much worse than the science slider .... once you start building an EP lead I think you could do fine without the GW. If you're really worried about lack of commerce playing Fin would help.

Wang Kon might work well, protective castles + financial. His UB isn't so ideal, however.

 

[GreyFox]

Re: GWall ~ I see no reason to make a game any harder by denying a strong move for a particular strategy ... emperor is hard enough ... (for me at least ).

@T_McC: Yes, but you can only build a spy after you have alphabet.

The variant will stand as it is on the first post: Science must be reduced to zero once we get alphabet. There is no other restrictions (i.e. buying tech is perfectly valid).

I am rolling a start now, with Sitting Bull, Emperor, and Cylindrical Rainforest.

--

 

[GreyFox]

Here we go!

Once upon a time, there's a Sly Little Fox ...

It met someone called the Sitting Bull, Emperor of the Natives.

"Fear me", the Sitting Bull said. "For I am the Emperor of the Natives."

The Sly Little Fox cocked its head, and responded. "I don't think so. In fact, you should obey me, for I am the true Ruler of All."

Sitting Bull did not believe the Fox, so the Fox says, "Let's go take a tour of the Natives, and you shall see all fear me and obey me."

Sitting Bull agreed, and true enough, where ever he and the Fox appeared, the Natives bow their head in fear and obedience. Sitting Bull must have been sitting for too long, it affected his blood circulation, and thus he was a bit brain damaged. For he mistook the fear and respect from the Natives towards him as evidence of the Fox's claim.

Thus began the chronicles of how the Sly Fox ruled on behalf of the Sitting Bull .... ...

-- Adapted from the story behind the Chinese Proverb: Fox Borrows Tiger's Might​

The start looks okay (good, but definitely not Fox-20 ). Will play in 12 hrs time. Most probably settle in place. Research wise: Hunting for deer then Mining for the silver (which will also opens up Masonry if we wish to go GWall). Production wise: Worker > Warrior?

 

[r_rolo1]

Worker first... while working one of the lakes to speed teching, Mining OFC

 

[Nares]

Lurker's comment: I noticed no one mentioned Mansa as a possible leader choice. I'd say he's far stronger than Lizzy, especially if you're dropping self-research. Philo just doesn't seem impressive when you're sitting on 5 GSPpt for the first (a long time) of the game, made longer by relying on the AI to do all the research.

 

[GreyFox]

Hmm ... worker first while working on water seems inefficient. Working on the deer would have double the production, whereas working on water only adds +2 coin (in addition to the 8 from palace), only a 25% increase.

 

[ruff_hi]

oh - a question! Do you mind if I play with BUG enabled?

 

[ruff_hi]

Worker first... while working one of the lakes to speed teching, Mining OFC

Hmm ... worker first while working on water seems inefficient. Working on the deer would have double the production, whereas working on water only adds +2 coin (in addition to the 8 from palace), only a 25% increase.

Having a faster tech rate to learn hunter earlier is pointless if you cannot make use of the tech (ie have worker building camp). Work it (MM!) to time the worker production with the tech knowledge.

 

[Tatran]

Lurker's comment :
Keep the rules simple.
Maybe use the WB to give yourself a handful of spies right from the start and
keep the EP slider at 100% during the game.

 

[Jabah]

We already have a worker tech that is not too useless (agriculture for rice); so I can't see a strong reason to delay the worker for more research.
I would consider Mining before hunting, because we might need a bit of production while we seems to have already plenty of food.

Jabah