Franco will move.

[Zardnaar]

I'm not willing to give people who openly flirt with fascist imagery, iconography and openly opine about how feminists are "********s" through their webcomics, the benefit of the doubt because that stretches credibility past the breaking point in my eyes.

Nor would I give the benefit of the doubt to a tankie who had a comic glorifying the genocidal, inhumane and repressive excesses of the Chinese government, ironically or otherwise.

Comedy is usually offensive. You should see some of the anti Nazi cartoons from the 30s. They would fail a purity test now lol.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Comedy is usually offensive. You should see some of the anti Nazi cartoons from the 30s. They would fail a purity test now lol.

Comedy can be offensive indeed, but the punching down on already victimized group is functionally the same as bullying and reinforcing negative perceptions and stereotypes.

I might have been able to give him the benefit of the doubt if it wasn't a consistant theme throughout his works but the portrayals of transwomen as obese, heavily masculine cross dressers has an actual real world impact on how others view and interact with transwomen and unfortunately for Dear CurtSibling here, historically transpeople have been the victims of violence far too often for me to merely write off his comic's as being edgy.

Nevermind that he actively cultivates an audience primed to hate certain minorities and more importantly, are adjacent to the far right and their attitudes.

 

[Dekker]

Comedy is usually offensive. You should see some of the anti Nazi cartoons from the 30s. They would fail a purity test now lol.

Why aren't you defending the free speech of those who criticize things for whatever reasons?

 

[CurtSibling]

Art is a reflection of the artist themselves, that you feel comfortable with ironically appropriating fascist imagery is your problem that you need to come to terms with, not mine.

I feel very comfortable. I have just had a brisk walk with my dog, and had an excellent breakfast.

How are you doing?

Don't worry you'll probably be spared, a fascist regime has use for skills such as yours, after all you certainly have no problem displaying your ideological enemies as degenerates worthy of combating and I'm sure that irony of yours will be a sufficient shield from which you can protect yourself.

My friend, in a jackboots regime we would both hang side by side.

PS
Protect myself from what? You?
Threatening posts against a nerd who draws comics?

Perhaps take a look in a mirror for that blackshirt bully, Mr Strife.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

That's strange because I'm not the one punching down on an entire group of people who have been historically marginalised and abused throughout western history.

That I decided to punch back in retaliation after seeing your unfiltered stereotypical depiction of transpeople is a given, after all I'm sure you of all people are aware of the suicide rates for transpeople, of which your comics do an admirable job in contributing to.

But that doesn't matter to you, it's all a joke to you or at least you like to claim it is because it isn't as popular as it used to be to be so open about ones intrinsic dislike of certain groups, now is it?

The moderates might buy your excuses and deflections but I don't, I know the game that you play, I've seen it, it is no coincidence that there are sections of your audience that would call me a degenerate and advocate for my oppression. That is the audience you've cultivated and you tacitly flirt with them.

You are the kid who heckles those who differ from you in the halls of school from afar but disengages when your victims confront you about your conduct. That makes you functionally a bully, which you already know.

I don't need to look in the mirror, you do.

 

[Zardnaar]

Why aren't you defending the free speech of those who criticize things for whatever reasons?

Because they're already complaining and I support their right to do so. I'm not trying to shut them down even the annoying ones.

 

[Zardnaar]

Comedy can be offensive indeed, but the punching down on already victimized group is functionally the same as bullying and reinforcing negative perceptions and stereotypes.

I might have been able to give him the benefit of the doubt if it wasn't a consistant theme throughout his works but the portrayals of transwomen as obese, heavily masculine cross dressers has an actual real world impact on how others view and interact with transwomen and unfortunately for Dear CurtSibling here, historically transpeople have been the victims of violence far too often for me to merely write off his comic's as being edgy.

Nevermind that he actively cultivates an audience primed to hate certain minorities and more importantly, are adjacent to the far right and their attitudes.

It depends how that comedy is done.

There's a movie called blazing saddles. It's offensive as hell and it's on Netflix.

They use the N word around 15 times in the first 5 minutes. It was written by a African American and a Jew. It would trigger all sorts of people now but it's hilarious and it's basically mocking the Klan, Nazis etc. It was made in 1973.

Clip

It's mocking how African Americans got treated.

 

[Patine]

What, no witty, barbed, one-liner comeback there, @Dekker? Or have you maybe realized the sobriety and concern of my last post?

 

[CurtSibling]

That's strange because I'm not the one punching down on an entire group of people who have been historically marginalised and abused throughout western history.

That I decided to punch back in retaliation after seeing your unfiltered stereotypical depiction of transpeople is a given, after all I'm sure you of all people are aware of the suicide rates for transpeople, of which your comics do an admirable job in contributing to.

But that doesn't matter to you, it's all a joke to you or at least you like to claim it is because it isn't as popular as it used to be to be so open about ones intrinsic dislike od certain groups, now is it?

Here we see the stockpiling ever-more outrageous accusations. Also transforming me into some kind of satanic strawman that makes you feel mighty and righteous.
None of what you claim is true, healthy, or going to help anyone.

If you truly knew anything about me, save for your instantaneous takeway viewpoint, you'd know I loathe anyone who stifles freedoms.
Please stop upsetting yourself, and realise I am just a person like you.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I don't make it a habit of mine to get to know people who are so blase and cavalier about portraying transpeople in the most negative of lights.

Similar to how a PoC prefers to not associate with racists or a Jewish person might shun the company of anti semites.

 

[CurtSibling]

You are the kid who heckles those who differ from you in the halls of school from afar but disengages when your victims confront you about your conduct. That makes you functionally a bully, which you already know.

Yep. At school, the uncommunicative spergy guy called Curt who got daily picked on, is the bully.

Again. You know nothing about me. But keep throwing those random paper planes, Cloud.

I don't need to look in the mirror, you do.

I did, when shaving this morning. All I saw was a handsome devil.

I don't make it a habit of mine to get to know people who are so blase and cavalier about portraying transpeople in the most negative of lights.

Similar to how a PoC prefers to not associate with racists or a Jewish person might shun the company of anti semites.

So it is better to make up nonsense, rather than have facts.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

It's not uncommon for those who've been bullied in the past to then go on to bully others, especially those they deem inferior, after all it is about power and I'm sure punching down on an autistic troubled trans woman makes you feel better about yourself.

Nothing at all worrying about your propensity to do this, because here I was thinking you might have some empathy for a fellow human being that is being bullied.

Indeed I know nothing about you, but I have seen your comics and I'm pretty confident that you aren't someone I would want to associate with.

 

[Zardnaar]

I don't make it a habit of mine to get to know people who are so blase and cavalier about portraying transpeople in the most negative of lights.

Similar to how a PoC prefers to not associate with racists or a Jewish person might shun the company of anti semites.

Alit of then do associate with then in deradicalization programs.

People generally become more liberal when they get exposed to a wider part if the world.

It's why rural areas tend to be more conservative world wide. They export their unemployed to the cities so everyone they know works hard and has a job.

 

[Dekker]

What, no witty, barbed, one-liner comeback there, @Dekker? Or have you maybe realized the sobriety and concern of my last post?

Glad you missed me

In each thread that Cloud gets defensive it is specific to actual direct or indirect threats to transpersons (Zard defending Nazis who literally espouse transphobic rhetoric and literally commit transphobic violence) or it is criticism towards negative portrayals of transpersons (I'm not going to comment on Curts work I am not familiar with it) so I'm not seeing how there's a siege mentality when the rights and experience of transpersons are pretty much under siege (Zard will defend Chappelles trans jokes but of course Cloud should learn to have a sense of humor right?)

When Zard and others are defending the status quo of transpersons in society, the right for Nazis to speak and commit violence against them while attack antifa for violence against Nazis/facists/alt-rights/random people they believe have anti-trans anti-liberty sentiments, and whining about how comedians are being censored when criticisms are made at distasteful jokes that perpetuate negative stereotypes (not using stereotypes to make a hilarious point) you expect that Cloud should just agree and accept that, this is just how it is for transpersons? And when he doesn't and argues against these positions, you cry mental illness?

We already got into my opinion of your use of this tactic before, no need to rehash that.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

So it is better to make up nonsense, rather than have facts.

I merely base it upon the comics you've thrown out there, the comics i've seen used to villify and attack transpeople.

Why are you being so sensitive my friend, can you not handle criticism of your products or the world view they present? Would you prefer the unquestioning adoration of your fans?

 

[Zardnaar]

Glad you missed me

In each thread that Cloud gets defensive it is specific to actual direct or indirect threats to transpersons (Zard defending Nazis who literally espouse transphobic rhetoric and literally commit transphobic violence) or it is criticism towards negative portrayals of transpersons (I'm not going to comment on Curts work I am not familiar with it) so I'm not seeing how there's a siege mentality when the rights and experience of transpersons are pretty much under siege (Zard will defend Chappelles trans jokes but if course Cloud should learn to have a sense of humor right?)

When Zard and others are defending the status quo of transpersons in society, the right for Nazis to speak and commit violence against them while attack antifa for violence against Nazis/facists/alt-rights/random people they believe have anti-trans anti-liberty sentiments, and whining about how comedians are being censored when criticisms are made at distasteful jokes that perpetuate negative stereotypes (not using stereotypes to make a hilarious point) you expect that Cloud should just agree and accept that, this is just how it us for transpersons? And when he doesn't and argues against these positions, you cry mental illness?

We already got into my opinion of your use of this tactic before, no need to rehash that.

I don't watch stand up.
I believe in consequences so stand ups can say what they like, if they get boycotted or whatever tough luck. Should have thought about that before you opened your mouth.

My taste in comedy tends towards over the top absurdist and politically incorrect social and political satire.

Examples

South Park
Family Guy
The New Statesmen
Blackadder
The Inbetweeners
Blazing Saddles
Married With Children

Slapstick can also be good in small doses.

American Pie
Bottom

Oh and I like Red Dwarf. Stand ups crap although I kind of like Katherine Ryan would watch her again. Sitcoms usually don't do it for me either although I like Community and Parks and Recreation.

American comedy is generally crap prefer British.

 

[Gorbles]

Comedy is usually offensive. You should see some of the anti Nazi cartoons from the 30s. They would fail a purity test now lol.

Comedy doesn't have to be offensive at all. The fact your example is some apparent satire from the 1930s (when the Nazis were in full swing) proves how much of a reach this was.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I think George Carlin had it right when he said that elements of comedy are about a reaction to a percieved loss of power by white, straight, cismales as well as insecurities about their own place in the world. Minorities and women being less restricted represent a percieved threat to these people, one which CurstSibling is all too willing to pander to, you know, the crude base, the constant refrain of feminists as ********'s, the depiction of transpeople as ugly beasts, the co-opting of fascist imagery which is in direct opposition to minorities, the dismissal of those that take issue with the status quo as "SJWS", labelling those men that do not hold the same orthodoxy as he as being "betas" or "soyboys" or "Soymales" or whatever terminology the alt-right (purely coincidently i'm sure) currently use.

At some point it transcends being merely comedic and starts being about an ideology that is being propogated in the form of insincere, edgy, deliberately offensive media. When it's barely distinguishable from the rhetoric and actual views of fascists, nazis, bigots etc that's a big problem and not one that can be merely dismissed as "comedy".

It's the same issue that people like Stonetoss or those that repeat anti-semitic and racist memes try to muddy up when they take issue with any criticisms; that somehow comedy and parody are get out clauses when challenged about the content, implications and ideology behind media that is put out and that they cannot be challenged on this because comedy is somehow sacrosanct.

If i made comics that routinely espoused the idea that British people were Subhuman or somehow inherently contemptable and undeserving of basic human rights and dignity, for comedy, i can't then expect British people not to take offense nor to challenge me on what i put out there, even less so when i profit off of them

 

[Zardnaar]

I think George Carlin had it right when he said that elements of comedy are about a reaction to a percieved loss of power by white, straight, cismales as well as insecurities about their own place in the world. Minorities and women being less restricted represent a percieved threat to these people, one which CurstSibling is all too willing to pander to, you know, the crude base, the constant refrain of feminists as ********'s, the depiction of transpeople as ugly beasts, the co-opting of fascist imagery which is in direct opposition to minorities, the dismissal of those that take issue with the status quo as "SJWS", labelling those men that do not hold the same orthodoxy as he as being "betas" or "soyboys" or "Soymales" or whatever terminology the alt-right (purely coincidently i'm sure) currently use.

At some point it transcends being merely comedic and starts being about an ideology that is being propogated in the form of insincere, edgy, deliberately offensive media. When it's barely distinguishable from the rhetoric and actual views of fascists, nazis, bigots etc that's a big problem and not one that can be merely dismissed as "comedy".

It's the same issue that people like Stonetoss try to muddy up; that somehow comedy and parody are get out clauses when challenged about the content, implications and ideology behind media that is put out.

Did you watch that clip? It's 4 minutes of your life.
Using South Park and Married With Children as examples. They're both politically incorrect, they're both absurd, and they insult everyone.

They're also social satire.

How about Blazing Saddles?

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Did you watch that clip? It's 4 minutes of your life.
Using South Park and Married With Children as examples. They're both politically incorrect, they're both absurd, and they insult everyone.

They're also social satire.

How about Blazing Saddles?

We aren't talking about those examples though, we're talking about something far more different and insidious; the attempt to normalize and propogate stereotypes that are demonstrably harmful to already marginalized groups, groups that have historically been killed precisely because of the same stereotypes that are in play. Must i point out that transpanic defense is a thing? That the concept of trans people "trapping" cis people is an idea propogated by some of the worst transphobes out there? If it was that alone, i might be willing to just dismiss it as bigotry, but when you add in the intense hatred of SJW's along with appropiation of fascist imagery and concepts my willingness to ignore what is a deeply concerning trend disappears.

An ironic fascist-adjacent is still fascist adjacent nonetheless, despite their protestations to the contrary.