Frustrated over lack of unit graphics

[Putmalk]

I'm not usually one to complain, and I apologize if it comes off this way. I just want to bring light to a problem that's been bugging me for a while.

There is a severe lack of available custom unit graphics to choose from in Civ5. I'm doing a quick compare/contrast of the units available on the civfanatics website from Civ 4 to Civ 5. Keep in mind, this is not grounds for a discussion on Civ 4 v. Civ 5 Modding State debate. I'm not interested in that.

Civ 4:
Ancient Units: 483
Medieval: 476
Renaissance: 245
Industrial: 369
Modern: 1352
Sci-Fi: 254
Fantasy: 337
Other: 86
Unit Accessories: 40

Civ 5:
Ancient Units: 0
Classical: 0
Medieval: 9
Renaissance: 1
Industrial: 16
Modern: 8

I know there are tools available to convert units from Civ 4 to Civ 5. How come there is such a severe lack of units in Civ 5? Not to mention, absolutely 0 ancient or classical units. This is extremely frustrating.

I know there is that Rifleman conversion project going along - but there are so many Rifleman available right now. Almost every unit that's been converted is a gunpowder unit. Can we please get some sword-and-board, archer, and spear units made out there?

My apologies for what probably came off as a rant. But I feel this issue needs to be corrected.

Alas, I am ashamed to say that I do not have the tools or expertise to handle such conversions. If I did, I would, but I don't. But if this community is to survive, I believe we need custom units available.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Gedemon]

Alas, I am ashamed to say that I do not have the tools or expertise to handle such conversions.

that's the problem, almost nobody has the expertise to use the tools, so you have to get the expertise yourself or wait for the few ones who does.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Civ 4:
Modern: 1352
Sci-Fi: 254
Fantasy: 337

Civ 5:
Modern: 8

This is the one that's been killing me. My mod, for obvious reasons, needs high-tech unit models and/or some fantasy ones. But at present there's nothing, so I've had to do everything myself.

For the last couple weeks I've been doing Civ4->Civ5 conversions lately for my own mod, and my next version will include about a dozen new unit models (albeit incomplete, since I haven't translated the animations yet). But it's a slow process, for a few reasons:

1> Civ4 allowed unit models to have multiple distinct meshes, each with its own texture map. Civ5 requires a single unit mesh and a single texture map, which means you have to join the textures together.

2> Civ4 allowed for overlap duplication. For instance, if you have an aircraft model that has 24 missiles hanging below the wings, then you could have a single texture for a missile and stack 24 polygons on top of each other on that section of the texture image to duplicate the graphic. Civ5 doesn't allow this, which means you now need 24 distinct copies of that part of the texture taking up space on the map image, which means less room for detail on the other parts.
Even if you don't have anything that extreme, most vehicle models are symmetric; in Civ4 you could get better detail on your textures by only defining half and then setting the polygons to basically mirror the texture. This doesn't work in Civ5.

3> Converting animations from Civ4 to Civ5 is just not easy. At all.

4> The provided tools DO NOT WORK. The only way to get a working .gr2 file is to use lemmy's IndieStone NexusBuddy, and the version available for download here at CivFanatics is out of date. (His own website no longer provides the files either, so I had to get my copy from someone here.) So the number of people that have the tools needed to do the work is extremely small.

When I'm done doing all of my conversions I'll post the important bits in the unit graphics forum, but until I'm done the only place my models will be found will be inside my mod. And there is NO WAY I'll be doing any units beyond those needed for my own mod, because it's just a lot of work, and that's with converting existing models from Civ4; I don't even want to think about trying to create new content.

 

[Putmalk]

Then this is a serious issue that must be fixed. Nexus MUST work, or else why do we have access to it? Custom units must be able to be made, so that we can start rolling out better qualiy scenarios and units.

I just wish someone out there would be willing to convert Classical units over.

 

[Skajaquada]

1> Civ4 allowed unit models to have multiple distinct meshes, each with its own texture map. Civ5 requires a single unit mesh and a single texture map, which means you have to join the textures together.

In your mod-thread I figured you meant Civ 4 allowed several color-textures on the same mesh however several meshes with a texture each is very doable in Civ 5. I've been playing around with importing units and they've got several meshes all with their own texture. I've also not had to do anything special for it to work except that one bug where each mesh needs at-least 2 bones to show up.

However there is a slight chance more meshes increase the likelihood of vertices that are distorted but I haven't really seen a pattern.

Anyway, a little on-topic I just counted my WH40K-models and they number 65. You'd be right to think it's ridiculous Here are some pictures:

 

[The_J]

4> The provided tools DO NOT WORK. The only way to get a working .gr2 file is to use lemmy's IndieStone NexusBuddy, and the version available for download here at CivFanatics is out of date. (His own website no longer provides the files either, so I had to get my copy from someone here.) So the number of people that have the tools needed to do the work is extremely small.

Why not upload it to our database? I'm pretty sure Lemmy would not mind, and it would be a very much needed service for the users.
If anyone notifies me, i'll also correct the link in the right threads (...if someone tells me which these are...).

I just wish someone out there would be willing to convert Classical units over.

Did you try it yourself?
Modding is about doing stuff yourself, so don't complain that no one startes, start yourself!
(and yes, i'm also not a graphics guy, but i did one conversion for civ4 and "reskinned" a bit the terrain, and this all was painful and slow, but if i'm forced to, then i'll try, and then i'll get better, doing it faster, and maybe i'll have some fun with it. Which will then be great. If not...then at least i tried. So try it yourself)

 

[Putmalk]

Why not upload it to our database? I'm pretty sure Lemmy would not mind, and it would be a very much needed service for the users.
If anyone notifies me, i'll also correct the link in the right threads (...if someone tells me which these are...).



Did you try it yourself?
Modding is about doing stuff yourself, so don't complain that no one startes, start yourself!
(and yes, i'm also not a graphics guy, but i did one conversion for civ4 and "reskinned" a bit the terrain, and this all was painful and slow, but if i'm forced to, then i'll try, and then i'll get better, doing it faster, and maybe i'll have some fun with it. Which will then be great. If not...then at least i tried. So try it yourself)

The main point of this thread wasn't to QQ, it was just to bring to attention an issue that needs to be corrected. I'm very well aware that I can fix it myself - yet I lack the know-how, the tools, nor the time to do it. I'm not trying to sit here, stamp my feet and demand someone does the work for me, my main goal here is to get more people to start converting so it betters the community as a whole. Sorry if it came out like complaining, but I stated numerous times in the OP that that wasn't the intention.

In your mod-thread I figured you meant Civ 4 allowed several color-textures on the same mesh however several meshes with a texture each is very doable in Civ 5. I've been playing around with importing units and they've got several meshes all with their own texture. I've also not had to do anything special for it to work except that one bug where each mesh needs at-least 2 bones to show up.

However there is a slight chance more meshes increase the likelihood of vertices that are distorted but I haven't really seen a pattern.

Anyway, a little on-topic I just counted my WH40K-models and they number 65. You'd be right to think it's ridiculous Here are some pictures:

Your units look fantastic! I know I have no right to ask you, but if you want to upload them, I'm sure many modders would be very appreciative of your efforts.

 

[renegadechicken]

I'm right there with you, OP. I would really like to see some new units-- I'm starting work on an "Age of Sail" mod set in the Caribbean, but from the looks of things it'll mostly be the same unit models with different names and icons. It'll work, but it's not the quality I was aiming for. I guess I'll just have to look into doing this myself, though I've NEVER done it (technically, I did edit dozens of units in Civ II, but who COULDN'T back when they were 2D?).

But I suppose that's the end point...if you want it done, you've gotta do it yourself. It DOES seem that it's a LOT harder than in Civ IV (I wouldn't know!) based on the fact that there are so few units for CiV!

 

[Hulfgar]

It is just a matter of patience :

as The_J and other have said converting is long and painfull, I tried, it was a huge waste of time.
I just don't have enough skills for this. Or my english is not good enough to use the provided tools and tutos efficiently.

That's the same with just reskinning the DDS : it is not as easy as in Civ IV because you have to recreate the whole files.
I could bring the indie tools to work but for any reason the units just appear as spearmen.
Now I have to choose between investing some time in my mod or learning how to reskin units.
Right now the first choice is more fun

With some luck when Danrell and Bernie are done with their current projet they will convert more units.
And this just to name the top 2 contributors

With time more people will try to convert units some will succeed and we will have more choice

It's just that it is a lot more complicated than coding xml, I have a lot of respect for our artists here.

Skajaquada your units look great, do you plan to release them ?

 

[The_J]

The main point of this thread wasn't to QQ, it was just to bring to attention an issue that needs to be corrected. I'm very well aware that I can fix it myself - yet I lack the know-how, the tools, nor the time to do it. I'm not trying to sit here, stamp my feet and demand someone does the work for me, my main goal here is to get more people to start converting so it betters the community as a whole. Sorry if it came out like complaining, but I stated numerous times in the OP that that wasn't the intention.

Was not perceived as a complaint, but i think you're charging an open door: Everyone knows about it.

It is just a matter of patience :

as The_J and other have said converting is long and painfull, I tried, it was a huge waste of time.
I just don't have enough skills for this. Or my english is not good enough to use the provided tools and tutos efficiently.

Was it a problem with Delivators tutorial, or with anything else?


Because if it's "only" a problem with time and patience, then there's no excuse. Because then everyone could do it, and if everyone, who thinks there are not enough units, would go 2 times through the "torture" (i guess it's pretty doable for people who are skilled or did it a few times), then we'd have already a decent amount of stuff around.

 

[Putmalk]

I think generally it's a lack of information regarding the programs needed to get these working.

Blender is a free 3D modeling program, am I correct?

^^ Ignore that. Yes, it's free.

I'm going to take your advice. I've downloaded Blender to help me with the conversions. Let's try this.

 

[Skajaquada]

That's the same with just reskinning the DDS : it is not as easy as in Civ IV because you have to recreate the whole files.
I could bring the indie tools to work but for any reason the units just appear as spearmen.
Now I have to choose between investing some time in my mod or learning how to reskin units.
Right now the first choice is more fun

The units usually appear as Speamen when there's just some error with the XML-files. Either some DDS-file doesn't have VFS set to true or something else is missing.

About my WH40K-units I'll let anyone do whatever they want with them as I release a mod with them or I simply get bored working with them.

 

[The_J]

...so...basically everyone wants new units, but i nearly don't see any comments in all the threads with the world war units...how do you think an artist will see that the people anticipate his work when no one comments?

(i'm aware that most of the people have posted in at least one of the threads, but hey, i guess there's something more to say )

 

[FiresForever]

If I wanted to add some of the ww2 pack graphics and use them for a new unit is it really as simple as following steps 8-12 of the deliverator tutorial? And what is this all about:

Please put the folder "Common" to
C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\sid meier's civilization v\resource\Common\
and replace the files.

Does this also apply for if we are adding these units to our mods?

Personally I am all for experimenting and trial and error but I would love to see a tutorial that focuses on taking one of these great ww2 packs and goes over how to set it up in your mod and create new units using them.

 

[Spatzimaus]

...so...basically everyone wants new units, but i nearly don't see any comments in all the threads with the world war units...

Maybe because the units some of us want aren't WW2 units? I need high-tech units for my future-era mod, and that means doing all of the unit graphics for myself. If anyone had converted any science-fiction units in that forum then I'd use them, but the only other person I know who's working on high-tech units is Skajaquada for his WH40k mod (and only a few of those would match well to my own mod's content).

To quote Bart Simpson: "There are no good wars. Except for the Revolutionary War, World War 2, and the Star Wars trilogy." Everyone seems to make unit models for the first two, and I want the third.

 

[Sneaks]

I plan on trying to take up this aspect of modding once I can figure out how to successfully install blender. Keep getting python errors.

 

[Spatzimaus]

I plan on trying to take up this aspect of modding once I can figure out how to successfully install blender. Keep getting python errors.

You have to install Python, then PyFFI, then Blender, then the Blender .nif scripts. There's a detailed explanation in this thread about converting Civ4 units into Civ5. You also have to make sure you grab the right version of each; do NOT just grab the most recent version of Blender and/or Python, it has to be the one compatible with the other parts (which basically means no 64-bit stuff). When I get home I can try to find which version numbers I used on my own system.

 

[The_J]

Maybe because the units some of us want aren't WW2 units?

I don't say you should use them (which you sure could; making the skins of the tanks and planes looking more metalic would probably make them fit enough for at least a not bad replacement for some scifi units), but comment!
I'll not even see these units ingame, but from what i can see in the threads:
- Units? Awesome art!
- Amount? Awesome, tons of stuff.

And you, as artist yourself (forced, but that doesn't matter here), you can also judge about the needed artistical skill, the time which was needed, and the creativity which has been put in there.
Something from that should be worth a comment!
A nice "well done" will create a better atmosphere imho , and is also sure warranted.

 

[Sneaks]

You have to install Python, then PyFFI, then Blender, then the Blender .nif scripts. There's a detailed explanation in this thread about converting Civ4 units into Civ5. You also have to make sure you grab the right version of each; do NOT just grab the most recent version of Blender and/or Python, it has to be the one compatible with the other parts (which basically means no 64-bit stuff). When I get home I can try to find which version numbers I used on my own system.

I'd very much appreciate it!

 

[Sneaks]

If anyone could get me the blender/python/pyffi versions I would be most grateful