Full Patch Notes for December Patch

[CivFart]

The reason the game is so painfully slow is not because of 1UPT, it is because the pathfinding algorithm sucked and was also buggy around certain features. They have fixed the pathfinding and also optimized it (twice)

You're right that 1UPT means that there will be more obstacles on the way to the target but what you're forgetting completely here is that each individual unit will not complain or calculate anything until it really makes a hit with any units on the way, you'll notice it will immediately cancel the order and make you select where to go once it does that.

The fact of the matter is that it will ignore obstacles on the way, except for the obstacles that is within the tiles in the first turn.

So what you say about 1UPT is not correct here. I'm sorry, thats just a fact.
Even if it were to calculate obstacles on its way, a lookup table can be used for this to get free tiles without any complicated processing involved.

 

[lietkynes]

1upt is the best feature of Civ5, and the large majority of the players love it

I understand there's few people who don't like it, well sucks to be you but it will never be removed in the official game, your only option is a mod

 

[CivFart]

I've experienced 2 circumstances where I managed to get land battle units to stack in the same tile and the same goes for battle ships at sea. I cant see anything in the description of the upcoming patch that they have addressed this. I hope they have, it was a nasty bug. One of them is directly linked to gifting units to a city state. I managed to find a way to stack ships on top of each other.

I've seen tons of other bugs that I cant find in the upcoming patch either. Developers are hopeless in discovering bugs. I should have been a beta tester with fireaxis, my eyes see where others go blind.

 

[Celevin]

I can't believe people are finding moving units hard or tedious. I actually enjoy moving my army across the map . The tedious part to me is between wars when I'm setting them up as fortifications, and it just not looking right.

 

[Me,myself,and,I]

just making 1upt so that you can stack several units at the same time but if you loose one all is lost, solves the problem when transporting but you wouldn't want to have them in the same spot in a war. Perhaps to defend a wounded unit but that seems a bit realistic at the same time dont it?

Just a small suggestion, otherwise I am quite happy with the 1upt system

You just rediscovered the and combat system.

My only problem with 1upt is that the AI can't handle it. My confidence in the AI was shattered when Askia's entire army failed to take a CULTURAL city state, until a good twenty turns had passed, at which point my long-swordsmen arrived and took the city back.

 

[Celevin]

I don't think the AI would be able to handle that system. One good ambush could kill half their army in one attack. It's better to keep things like that out of the system. Finally, how would archer units act? Could we have 10 units on the same hex all firing?

 

[Me,myself,and,I]

Well the AI was able to handle in civs 1 and 2 so I don't see why it shouldn't be able to here. As for ranged units, you would have to get creative, IDK how that would work.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

just making 1upt so that you can stack several units at the same time but if you loose one all is lost, solves the problem when transporting but you wouldn't want to have them in the same spot in a war. Perhaps to defend a wounded unit but that seems a bit realistic at the same time dont it?

Just a small suggestion, otherwise I am quite happy with the 1upt system

That's how it was in Civ I and II, and most people disliked it immensely. You got together an army which marched towards a city, and out pops an enemy unit and kills the strongest defender in the stack, and then the whole stack gets killed. I very much doubt that they'll reintroduce that.

The only places where the "one unit killed in the tile means all units are killed" rule did not apply were cities and fortresses.

 

[Me,myself,and,I]

That's how it was in Civ I and II, and most people disliked it immensely. You got together an army which marched towards a city, and out pops an enemy unit and kills the strongest defender in the stack, and then the whole stack gets killed. I very much doubt that they'll reintroduce that.

The only places where the "one unit killed in the tile means all units are killed" rule did not apply were cities and fortresses.

And that is why my units were almost always on their own in a tile. A possible solution would be to have each unit in the space provide a bonus to the defender (up to 100% or maybe a certain number of units). This would be more realistic and would make large stacks not total armor fodder.

One of my big problems with the combat in civ2 was walls providing 3x defense, that meant that a riflemen, despite being outdated, could hold of armor easily.

 

[Txurce]

This thread is in danger of being hijacked from analyzing the patch notes to perhaps the last thing we will ever see in a Civ 5 patch. Why not shift your input to:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=402524

 

[Strategy Master]

If SOD ever returns (with no tactical battle map), just let the attacker choose a defender in the stack to attack, and limit the number of units in the stack that can attack per turn to 1. Results in good manouverability but no real battle advantage unless you spread your troops. And no sudden loss of all your troops in the stack on defeat.

 

[ClarenceSeedorf]

This is ridiculous. Reducing them from 2 slots to 1 slot would have been fine, but to completely removed their slots is excessive.

This change is enough to show me that Firaxis and 2K care nothing about the games they make nor the expectations of players that have been loyal fans of this series.

As of now, I'm done with these companies. I will never buy another game that has anything to do with these companies nor from any company that is stupid enough to hire anyone from this dev team.

Why? Because this company and dev team just showed they does NOT think about the changes they make. Instead they take knee-jerk reactions to a few elite players blowing their vision and make the entire game so much harder that only those same elite players will have any chance in hell of beating it on any difficulty.

This crap reminds me of the early days of Everquest, where that dev team ramped the difficulty up across the board to a level that sucked every bit of fun from the game. All because a few players managed to hit level 50 in 6 months of playing almost 24/7. Meanwhile the average player was lucky to be in the 30's by the end of the first year.

So once again, another dev team looks at the feats of the power games instead of the average player. Then caters the entire game to the mere 6-10% of the player base that is made up of these power gaming elite players.

I already avoid Sony games because of the crap with EQ and the even worse crap with SWG. Now Firaxis/2K wants to follow in Sony's footsteps. Thanks, but no thanks. I'll take my money to a company that cares about pleasing the majority, aka average gamers, instead of the minority, aka, power gamers.

Dude...srsly?

 

[Öjevind Lång]

And that is why my units were almost always on their own in a tile. A possible solution would be to have each unit in the space provide a bonus to the defender (up to 100% or maybe a certain number of units). This would be more realistic and would make large stacks not total armor fodder.

One of my big problems with the combat in civ2 was walls providing 3x defense, that meant that a riflemen, despite being outdated, could hold of armor easily.

In fact, the combat rules in Civ V are an improved version of the ones in Civ I and II. One is simply not permitted to make a fool of oneself, and neither is the AI.

I accepted the unit stacking in Civ III as an improvement until I encountered my first Stack of Dooom. I'll never forget it. There I was, peacefully minding my own business and not offending anyone. (Not that the latter mattered to any of your rivals before Civ IV.) Suddenly, one of my rivals (not the next door neighbour) turns up with an army consisting of every crap unit it had ever built since the dawn of time. Perhaps not warriors, but there were archers, swordsmen, spearmen, pikemen, crappy horse units, then a more advanced knight or two, more swordsmen, another spearman, axemen, a couple of additional swordsmen - it never ended.

My border city had what had up till then generally been regarded as an adequate garrison. I think there were two musketmen and a knight, but I can't be sure. Well, what happened was that despite the strong walls and the crappy quality of almost all the invading units, my garrison simply could not hold back the lemmings. My defenders killed enormous numbers of them, but they just kept coming, and the defenders' damage points increased, and then they were killed and the city taken. And then the still enormous army of excrement units, with fresh reinforcements, headed for my next city, which I believe had only two defending units. Every city had at least one garrisoned unit, for happiness reasons, but that was about it. My army reserve was large enough to fend off invasions of the old Civ I or II kind, but not this. So I gave up the game. I then resigned to the Stack of Doom, but it would be less than truthful to say that I learned to love it.

Ironically enough, just as my city fell, my civilization suddenly had its very late Golden Age (in Civ III, one could only have one of those.)

 

[Öjevind Lång]

This thread is in danger of being hijacked from analyzing the patch notes to perhaps the last thing we will ever see in a Civ 5 patch. Why not shift your input to:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=402524

We are discussing whether it would be a good idea to introduce a feature that existed in some earlier versions of the game. I fail to see how this could be thread drift.

 

[Txurce]

We are discussing whether it would be a good idea to introduce a feature that existed in some earlier versions of the game. I fail to see how this could be thread drift.

Because it has nothing to do with the Patch Notes - you know, the title of this thread - and because there is already at least one thread dedicated to discussion of 1 upt.

 

[Buccaneer]

I couldn't agree more.

Not only causes this the need to reduce building speeds, not only makes it the whole process of moving units slow and tedious, it also limits the already dumb AI even more.

Sure, some players will praise it as shooting down some stupid AI units without the need to put much thoughts into it because by this they are allowed to think of themselves as tactical genii.

The sad truth is, war has become so easy that any previous version almost seems to be a military simulation in direct comparison.

Yeah? Just think how much more you will be able to shoot down the stupid AI if you were able to have more 1upt. Also, what's the problem of moving units? This is not some FPS where you go into enemy territory and blast everything that moves. Guess you never have played traditional hex-based wargames.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Because it has nothing to do with the Patch Notes - you know, the title of this thread - and because there is already at least one thread dedicated to discussion of 1 upt.

No? Did you read the post you replied to? The patch notes pertain to what is or could be or should be in the game.

 

[Yzman]

No? Did you read the post you replied to? The patch notes pertain to what is or could be or should be in the game.

He is correct. Discussing 1upt has nothing to do with this patch and nothing to do with possible patches. It is not something that will be patched as it is a major game mechanic and the majority find nothing wrong with it. This topic should discuss the changes that the patch has made, or changes that future patches should make ( still existing bugs,minor fixes etc, NOT CORE ELEMENTS).

On topic, I hope the patch will be out tomorrow. Seems to make sense with the schedule of it being before the DLC and it is the start of a new business week.

 

[blind biker]

1upt is the best feature of Civ5, and the large majority of the players love it

I understand there's few people who don't like it, well sucks to be you but it will never be removed in the official game, your only option is a mod

Actually 1UpT is the worst feature of Civ V, and the large silent majority of the players hate it. It's just a very vocal minority that has advocated it constantly, but even some of that minority are coming around now that they got what they asked for.

I understand that there is this vocal minority that still likes it. Well, sucks to be you, but the 1UpT will be removed with an upcoming patch or in Civ VI. Enjoy while you can.

 

[blind biker]

For me, the 1upt idea is the fatal flaw that torpedoed this version. In particular, any stacking limit induces a lot of pathing difficulties - 1upt is the main reason why this game is so painfully slow. I'd prefer a soft stack cap, as in Europa Universalis 3 (you can stack whatever you want, but if you exceed the supply limit for a hex your units suffer severe attrition.) Hard stack limits are just too difficult for movement.

Radical though it may be, a unit density between 4 and 5 would be a better idea than either.
I hope that it can be salvaged by moving back to stacks on a strategic map and tactical battles (or an option to autoresolve) in the hexes in question.

I totally agree!!! Soft limits are really the best way to manage units on the same tile - as you said, something similar to the way it is implemented in EU3 could be one way to solve this. Many other ideas come to mind: for instance, the more units on a tile the higher the defense penalty. But if that's too complex, just having limited units in a tile is already a huge improvement compared to 1UpT.