Fun with Ramesses

[futurehermit]

Over the past couple of days I've really been enjoying some games with Ramesses. Of course, I've been playing for "good" (but not necessarily great) start positions, reloading if I get a heavy dose of coast to start. I have usually had the good fortune of having horses somewhere nearby, which is nice because I like to make use of everything a leader has to offer.

My general strategy has been as follows:

1) Worker-warrior-settler; settle horses asap, making sure they are in the first ring of the bfc so I can hook them up asap.

2) Capital then builds worker-barracks-war chariots; 2nd city builds monument-barracks-war chariots.

3) When I have around 8 war chariots (adjusted for distance of enemy capital), I take out my closest AI capital, razing the rest of the cities unless they are very close to me and well-suited to keeping.

4) After my capital finishes the first batch of war chariots, my 2nd city pumps support chariots and my capital switches to chopping out the pyramids.

5) After the war is over, I focus on keeping my economy afloat and getting to at least 6 cities (for eventual Oxford) while beelining aesthetics-lit for S. Peda and GL/NE/HE.

6) I get the GL/NE set up in my best specialist city and the HE set up in my best production city. The S. Peda usually gets churned out in my capital one way or another. This wonder, combined with pyramids and spiritual, means that I can really exploit the best civics for the situation at hand! Usually, this means rep-bur-caste-merc-pac during peacetime and ps-vass/nat-slav-merc (later sp)-theo during wartime; however, OR is nice at times as well. This saves me from having to tech/trade mono/theo or hurrying to phil (unless I'm desperate for a religion).

7) Then I just focus on running as many scientists empire-wide as possible. I settle all of the GSs in my capital except for one that makes an academy. Any other great people that happen to pop up for any reason also get settled in the capital.

8) As soon as I hit education I get universities chop/whipped in at least 6 cities and my capital gets oxford asap. This usually means my capital is pulling down 300+ beakers by 800-1200 AD.

9) Then I beeline all rifling prereqs, trading where possible (usually not that possible on monarch) and take rifling as free liberalism tech around 1100AD. During this time I also make sure to tech drama and get GT set up, often in my NE city (Capital is earmarked for Ox and later IW usually).

10) Then I wipe out my continent with rifles, adding cavalry and later cannons if necessary/possible as they become available. During this time I'm also sure to tech optics/astronomy to start checking out the other continent and pre-building the galleons which will allow me to continue my domination pursuits overseas. Once I start attacking overseas, I'll try and take on the most tech-advanced if possible, as long as they are at least a bit away from rifling still (because the other ones will be longer getting to rifling, so no hurry). At this point I should be getting close to domination and will take vassals quickly if I feel it will speed up the process.

I feel like my approach is a hybrid of some of the styles of players whose threads I have enjoyed reading on these forums, especially Snaaty, Acidsatyr, and Obsolete, combined with some of my own, most likely substandard , idiosyncracies.

I've quite enjoyed these games, so thought I'd describe the strategy here. However, I don't like getting coastal starts with Egypt I guess with Ramesses you could still go for GLH, etc., but meh

 

[cripp7]

that does sounds like a fun strat, i'm going to try that out in a test game. thanks for the 'quick' tutorial!

 

[LlamaCat]

seems you are relying on having a religion for this strategy - at what point do you adopt a religion or how did you get one from a neighbor in this particular game?

 

[futurehermit]

Yep, you need a religion. In some cases, I was first to CoL so I just adopted confucianism. In some cases, a religion spreads to me and I'll adopt it asap. Worst case scenario, I'll burn a GS on bulbing phil for taoism.

I focus on being first in power, so I don't worry about religious diplomacy as much. On the higher levels, this may not be possible.

EDIT: I played out one of my games a little more after posting this. I was very surpised at how fast Bismarck ended up teching. He must have nabbed some wonders and had some very nice land. The game is still very winnable, but won't be as much of a steam-roll as I had hoped. So, one more point of advice I have is this: Don't stop to breathe if at all possible. Just keep whipping/drafting troops so you can continually overwhelm your opponents. I stopped to breathe to build some infrastructure, which is a bad habit of mine instead of just continually cranking troops and navy to get overseas and attack. This also allowed Zara and Bismarck to annoyingly settle a bunch of little islands all over the place

 

[futurehermit]

One thing I've been thinking about for expanding this strategy somewhat, is a two-part plan to work more cottages into the economy to make it more of a hybrid. This will allow a transition to CE civics later if emancipation starts becoming a problem in combination with WW It can also help pay the bills if you have some peaceful expansion to do, which has happened in some of my games.

1) After a non NE city pops a gp transition it to a commerce city. I've read about this on the forums before. I think it is a good idea because it probably will never produce another gp and you get better return on the cottages per pop.

2) After the core empire is set up (6-8 cities) as specialist/whip and production cities new cities that you add should be commerce cities (as long as the terrain is suitable, otherwise make them production cities). As I add cities, I just make them whip/specialist centers and I think it would be a stronger move in the long run to make them commerce cities--unless you are certain that you can finish the game before the SE starts to lag (late renaissance/early industrial).

I think these two additions would make the economy stronger overall and the core of the empire can still run the SE and production sides of things. With Ramesses being spiritual, you can really engage the TE (transition economy) though and move from a more hardcore FE/SE to a CE + gpfarm around the time that the CE civics become available. At that point you should have a large enough empire that you don't necessarily need your entire empire to be focused on producing troops.

However, if you think you can close out the game in the early renaissance then I would go pure FE/SE. This was how I had my best domination win in warlords with Kublai. However, conquering my home continent was enough land to give domination and that isn't always the case.

 

[madscientist]

I like your discussions on specific leaders. However, I think Ramses is the ultimate leader for OBSOLETES wonderspamming, settled GP strategy which has been demonstrated many times.

When I play Ramses (actually I haven't gotten to him in BTS yet) it always folloed the same strat

1) Build Stonehenge/Oracle
2) Run priests to pay for the early economy and get GPs
3) Bulb theology with first Prophet
4) Shine Christianity.

The economy should be rolling very early. War chariots are an excellent way to conquer (personally I think Hatty's better at this) at least one early civilization but Ramses works pretty well just holing up and wondering.

Great writeup, I just think Obsoletes games demonstrated his power very nicely.

 

[futurehermit]

I think though that if you aren't leveraging his UU you are missing out somewhat. And like I said Obsolete's play has definitely had some influence on me here. Why bulb theology? Why not just take col with oracle and shrine that if you want?

 

[madscientist]

I think though that if you aren't leveraging his UU you are missing out somewhat. And like I said Obsolete's play has definitely had some influence on me here. Why bulb theology? Why not just take col with oracle and shrine that if you want?

SO as to adopt theocracy faster and thus abuse those war chariots more. Believe me I do like a good amount of warring with Ramses. Also Ramses is one of those leaders who does really need CoL that early. Running 1 priest in each city collect alot of early cash plus the shrine.

Your are right about taking theology with the oracle, but always hard to pass up taking MC and those easryl fast forges from an industrious leader. Hence my preference to bulb theology and get another prophet for the shrine.

Again it's been a while since I played Ramses.

 

[futurehermit]

That makes sense to me I guess, but instead I push on to aesthetics and take the S. Pada for theocracy. I find w. chariots don't need the boost early really. Instead I like to get col asap for the courthouses. MC for forges though is definitely a good idea.

 

[r_rolo1]

@hermit

Bulbing Theo gives you acess to the AP and to those marvellous 2 per religious building, that fits quite nicely with Ramesses. If you do it right you can have it before AD......

And after some games with Ramesses I think that a CE transition is not absolutely necessary ( in spite of being useful )... The objective to overrun the heatens with pure hammer power and those slow growing cottages so easily pilegable ( and prone to guided missiles attacks... ) don't fit as well in the equation.

 

[futurehermit]

I'm not a fan of the AP. Also, I only recommend the CE transition if you can't close out the game in a time manner.

 

[madscientist]

Not a fan of the AP?

I think it's one of the most powerful wonders in the game. +2 hammers per religious building. Abusing AI diplomacy.

I forgot about the AP with Ramses, even better to bulb theology. Maybe I should play him in my next off-line game. He's been long overdue in my BTS games.

 

[r_rolo1]

A SE ramesses is not that bad for a SS win: you can build the Apollo and some SS with the A. Wat bonuses.... if ,by some reason, you can't finish the game militarily earlier, the sheer prod power ( normally multiplied by forges, factories, etc ) can give you the needed edge for a SS win

 

[Hereditary Rule]

I think though that if you aren't leveraging his UU you are missing out somewhat. And like I said Obsolete's play has definitely had some influence on me here. Why bulb theology? Why not just take col with oracle and shrine that if you want?

Why bulb theo? With Mad Scientist's strategy, you can take Metal Casting with the oracle for the fast forges and still guarantee a religion.

 

[futurehermit]

You guys have given me some things to consider. I normally don't build many religious buildings. Maybe I'll have to give more thought to the AP. :shrug: Normally if I'm desperate for a religion, I'll bulb phil.

 

[Revenant27]

I love me some war chariots.

Double move anti-axemen unit, can't really beat that

 

[omglazers]

Nice little write up. I've never bothered to play Egypt.

I always disliked chariots.

I think i'll give them a shot, and replay some games as Persia

 

[futurehermit]

War chariots and immortals are two of my fav UUs because they allow you to rush with either copper or horses and not have to rely on normal chariots.

 

[Bleys]

Funny you should bring this up futureherm, after my game with Lincoln playing an SE, I decided to try my next one with Ramses, the "other" leader I feel that has two great SE traits. I play it much like you, in fact, adopting Obsoletes Wonderspamming/Settled GP methods (which worked so well with Lincoln, I can only imagine how strong it is with Ramses).

BTW, I ended up losing the Lincoln game, but that was ok because I purposely delayed a lot of stuff to force/practice some other strats. I could have easily conquered Gandhi once I hit Rifling, I had the Galleons to move my army (mainly cannons, Cuissars, Grenadiers and Rifles) but instead, I wanted a "true" intercontinental war and I went after Cyrus, who also had a small continent to himself. Gandhi later snuck an AP win on me, he had spammed the other continents with missionaries, which is just another reason I wanted to try Ramses, and actually BUILD that monster. I tried to get enough votes to stop him, but didnt spam Buddism enough, and once I got SM, I would need to be in OR to make Missionaries, a fact I neglected to remember (traded for SM from Hammu actually, after I left his civ in ruins, capturing his 5 southern cities and razing 4 others in the "middle" to give me culture room and leave him with mostly Tundra cities). A similar parallel to the troubles you had with Bismark, I took time after smacking Hammu to re-group, get buildings in my new cities, etc. Should have just massed Galleons on the spot and jumped all over Gandhi.

One other quick comment:

Also Ramses is one of those leaders who does really need CoL that early.

MS, I know you have some typos, but did you mean "doesn't" need CoL that early, because of the ability to run a priest from the UU? I found in my Lincoln game, which I took MC off the Oracle and built forges ASAP, I didnt really need to be in Caste as much, I was getting good specialists for Rep from Forge + Library + Temple (I got religion in that game by rushing Catherine, who had founded Judaism).

As for the AP, its one reason I picked Ramses next. SPI seems like the ultimate trait to abuse that wonder.

 

[madscientist]

@ BLEYS. I stand corrected. Ramses does not need CoL early, which is waht I meant.