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Future Mod

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Tholish, Mar 8, 2009.

  1. Tholish

    Tholish Chieftain

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    Orignally, this mod focused on the future, with Industrial, Modern, Near Future, Far Future, and Distant Future eras.
    These eras have as many techs as regular civ, with each tech doing at least several things. Has been extended to include an Ancient era starting in 12000 BC, a Renaissance, and a true dark age in between, approximately doubling the number of techs game. It includes scripts for 5 different kinds of planets by themselves or with an Earthlike planet nearby in space, for a 5 planet solar system including an earthlike start planet, for a solar system with only hostile non-earthlike planets, for a map with Earth, Mars, and Luna, and for two different kinds of extraterrestrial planets with both habitable and hostile regions. Works on most regular maps too, though Earth2 has been reported to have problems. You must have BtS installed, patched to the relevant version, with all the mods that came with it. Also play this mod in English only.

    This is version 2B.

    http://www.atomicgamer.com/file.php?id=83939

    What this means is that the mod design itself is finished and stable, but needs a final polish and review before I call it FutureMod 2.

    Its for BtS 3.19.

    Last version for BtS 3.17 is version 1.36 available here.
    http://www.atomicgamer.com/file.php?id=78914

    Ie, that was FutureMod 1.

    It contains Revolutions 1.65, so it is not MP compatible. It will never change.


    The following items are incomplete:
    --the credits is not totally finished, I still have some stuff to look up.
    --Many civilopedia articles are skimpy.
    --Some of the far future wonders still don't have building art that you can see in the city (they are just vacant lots.)
    --all possible leaderheads have not yet been included. I'm making a system to have a huge number of them without having to include them in the mod.
    --no revolutions mod

    Once I correct those deficiencies and create a bunch of leader packs and test this version I'll call it 2.0.


    Along the way I will attach patches. When the art changes significantly, you will have to redownload. Replace the files in the FutureMod folder in your mods directory with these files (just drag it in there and it will be replaced.

    No patches currently.

    Heres are some screenshots of the last five eras of the tech tree, as of version 1.4.

    Incidently, it evolved from this Civ3 Mod.

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=105956
     

    Attached Files:

  2. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Nice to see this here :).
    Why did you not ask a moderator to move your old thread here?

    Add pictures of the new content!
     
  3. Tholish

    Tholish Chieftain

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    The old thread included so much information that pertained to earlier versions, I thought it would be misleading. Also, I wanted it to remain as a development thread for the next version, which I alluded to. As for screenshots, I'll get some. In the meantime here's one from the last game I played before uploading this version, and also a patch. (I took the patch out and consolidated it with a later one.)

    EDIT: here's some more screenshots added much later.
     

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  4. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Quote from Comment:

    "must have all included mods"... So, what are they? Also: link to thread, please.
     
  5. Tholish

    Tholish Chieftain

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    What I mean is you cannot have deleted any of the mods that came with Civ4 BtS, such as Afterworld, NextWar, FinalFrontier, RoadToWar...
    I economized on size by simply using paths to stuff in them instead of including stuff cut out of them. That way the only art I had to include was if it came from elsewhere or if I altered it from the original. The zip for this is less than 38 mb and that's without fpk.

    I assume you want a link to the development thread.
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=303040&page=3

    This is scenario food incidently. Part of my inspiration was the fact that the downloads section has a sci fi scenario section but its so hard to do a sci fi scenario with the regular game, so I thought there should be a mod that provides a general purpose base for sci fi scenarios.
     
  6. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    I think yours is a cool mod idea.:goodjob:

    (But I meant your DL Page doesn't link here.)
     
  7. Bahmo

    Bahmo Chieftain

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    Can you play a normal game starting in the ancient era, and then go all the way to the future? That would be sweet!
     
  8. Tholish

    Tholish Chieftain

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    No, that will happen with the next version. In the meantime, the first post has a patch. The last minute changes...Mars terrain is too good and the fractal generates it on terrestrial maps. I simply reduced the food yield of Aresia to 0. Mars should be fine, since it has all that Carbonice. Unfortunately, the script for it doesn't generate enough regolith.
     
  9. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    After looking at it, i think, you should get a "golden thread" in your mod.
    You have 3 americas in it. 2 times isabella. The other future civs don't have a good theme or could be joined with existing ones.

    You should also use some of the better leaderheads here, and not some of the poor reskins.
    Also more different units. It's hard to see the difference between the different FF-spaceship-versions.

    Bugs:
    - 2 terrain-types are not working well, there's a problem with the alpha-channel.



    Nice ideas:
    - The new religions and corporations have a good theme :)
     
  10. Tholish

    Tholish Chieftain

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    By a golden thread you mean a theme?
    As for leaderheads there was some discussion in the development thread and me and Asthix came to the conclusion that they are too easy to add, people can add what they need, the main thing is core gameplay. I agreed but dislike the preponderance of ancient leaders, especially in a random game. I mean opponents are generated by civilization, not by leader, so Roosevelt has a 1/3 of the chance of appearing as Montezuma or Shaka. So, I made one civ one leaderhead for almost all civs. Besides, being a future mod it can be assumed that there will be splinter civilizaitons in the future, as there may have been in the past. In an alternate universe the Byzantine or Holy Roman Empires might have made it to the game's default start date (in fact the HRP almost made it), and in an 1815 start the Rennaissance leaders like Peter the Great can kind of be reasonable and thus continue into the future. I mean, in a standard game we don't bat an eye at Roosevelt versus Gilgamesh because we start with them. My reasoning on leaving in ancient leaders is basically, why throw anything out. I kind of set it up for them to be reactionaries who are trying to start a new country, so they start pre Rennaissance and without a Palace. They tend to die and you get a message, "The Babylonian Empire has been destroyed." Duh. Then the early easy conquest is like red meat to sharks, really spices up the AI behavior. Also if you think about it the Dawn of Man leaves open the notion that this is not really Earth, but another planet to which samples of these primitive nations have been transported by aliens. Not explicit because I want this mod to be multipurpose, which is the opposite of a theme. I want the theme to come from the application of it to creating scenarios. I used the various reskins because they were available in standard mods that come with the BtS. However, I was thinking of doing a patch for an optional variant where all graphical scales are synchronized to only 3 different variants. As long as I am providing "spice up" patches, I guess I can do some that provide the XML to use leaderheads from other mods if and only if they are installed. In other words, I'll just make new CivilizationInfos and LeaderheadInfos files that merge all the MarsNow leaderheads into mine without having to upload new art, and just explain that the optional patch won't work unless you also have MarsNow. (Kind of like what I did in Civ 3 in 2004 when I made a Titan mod that used Pentagenesis art for a new money generating terrain improvement called "suburbs" that grows over time, but didn't include the art and instead just said, "Copy the Pentagenesis art folder into this mod and it will work.") Similarly for other mods. Maybe I'll even try to do this using modular loading.

    As for the units, yes I was looking at some good spaceship art the other day, and thinking, "Darn, I wish I needed more Spaceships." Maybe I will also patch that in.

    As for terrain types which ones? They all work fine for me, except Orbit doesn't work as I expected but I kind of like the way it turned out so I decided to keep it. Its strange, added terrains are very sensitive to sequence in the TerrainInfos, and it affects which art they use. Orbit was supposed to look just like space but turned out as some kind of Ocean terrain, but since its different and darker it works as like the atmosphere of a planet. And those last minute changes to the value of yields allowed the generation of Mars terrain on regular maps, which I have patched out. And if you try to put some of the Afterworld terrains together in world builder they form blocky squares but they should never appear together on any of the..ahem..map scripts. How do you like the hills textures for mountains, isn't that so much better looking?

    Yeah, the rels and corps stuff is cool in concept but I definitely need to improve the art for them. I'm going to playtest the current version and decide wether I need to put in something like this

    <UpkeepInfo>
    <Type>UPKEEP_OUTRAGEOUS</Type>
    <Description>Outrageous</Description>
    <Strategy>TXT_KEY_UPKEEP_HIGH_HELP</Strategy>
    <iPopulationPercent>24</iPopulationPercent>
    <iCityPercent>90</iCityPercent>
    </UpkeepInfo>

    Then I will do a leaderhead borrow patch including that option. Game start options would be so much classier.

    Edit: removed the attached picture of terrains because they have changed since then.

    Edit: as of version 1.19 the leaderheads were expanded to a better selection and the Revolution mod was added.
     
  11. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Yes and no.
    The mod seems a bit inconsistent and not well planed.
    3 Americas are confusing.

    But mods are for "players", not for modders. The most people do not want to mod something.

    Interesting idea, but not perfect, if someone has really no mods.

    Picture is attached.

    :hmm: strange.

    They look good :).
     

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  12. Asthix

    Asthix Prognosticator

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    Its finally here! I'm finally back!

    To All Newcomers:

    This is poised to become the definitive hard sci fi mod for Civ IV!

    Tons of nifty toys on the cutting edge of the imagination!
    Ultra zoom!
    Plus 5 different kinds of Dreadnoughts!

    :goodjob:
     
  13. Tholish

    Tholish Chieftain

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    Thanks for your enthusiasm Asthix. You'll really like patch 110, which I have put in the first post. I'm learning to do map scripts and have done several, including a couple that generate whole solar systems. One has an Earthlike planet and 4 others, the other has all more difficult planets. I also fixed a couple of typos that made a unit and a building not appear in the game, tweaked some terrains a little, including the art for them (The J would probably like.) Also the Colonizer ship is available with the building Spaceport rather than the tech Spaceports, which is a fine distinction: if you build the Spaceport Prototype wonder this allows you to get a huge edge.

    A recent untested change: I made the global warming terrain a feature. It doesn't make the game not play, but lets see if it makes just no global warming at all.

    PS. It doesn't work. You never get any global warming that way. 1.11 coming.
     
  14. Tholish

    Tholish Chieftain

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    I am now uploading what I'm arbitrarily going to call version 1.11
    I've improved some of the map scripts and refined various things like where units can travel and the frequency of certain resources, all with pointed intent from test playing. There are more improvements right around the corner. However, I intend to keep the mod save game friendly from Version 1.00, if at all possible. That means no adding or removing of units or buildings or anything with a name, just changing text, art, and behavior/characteristics.



    Which you say pertains to it being unplanned. Well, yes, in a sense its unplanned but polished. I started with a vague idea then made a great accumulation of strategic changes which each added to the plan. I enjoy playing it actually, but constantly realize how many things need to be refined. Also the fact that its intended to be general purpose makes it seem unfocused. Basically seek the victory conditions. The real problem with it is that in many games theres a certain verve thats lost and the AI just seem limp. In others its exciting and crazy. Now that I have included space terrains I had to do away with Barb Units to keep Keshiks from appearing floating in Space. Barb cities are still in, and seem to be based on proximity to player civs so they aren't as much a problem. And this loss of barbs takes away some. The early eras have been tested more than the later ones, and have more focus. Once you get into the deep future its basically a slow tech race. I'm trying to file away stuff that makes the AI less challenging. For example, I have now made the future religions monasteries not require the religion itself. I think next I'll switch the roles of the swarmist monastery and temple though.

    As noted above, I think I'll deal with that by just including optional "patches" that can make your version a mod mod mod that can access civilizations and leaders from other mods. I figure if you are playing sci fi mods, you'll get them all, not just one. Isabella is hot enough to appear more than once, and having two Maos is just a joke, but I did separate Prussia and Germany and in the next version will fix those as well. As you and Asthix have both complained about the multiple identical short names appearing in the Custom game list (though leaders necessarily differ) I will change them. It was partly an attempt at a subtle joke. A lot of times countries that fracture will all claim to be the true heirs. China or Rome for example. And having two spains--The Kingdom of Castille and Leon vs The Spanish Empire is just a way of providing for both the scenario that these are civilizations all transported to a new planet by aliens and for having both earlier and later era scenarios.

    You are right. I will do that. Since I have to include the FF unit art anyway because I eleveted it, I might as well replace some of it. Mainly the earlier versions. I have some old SOTM units handy. Also, I need to think about reconfiguring all the eras so I can take full advantage of early/middle/late looks. This means changing music, which is why I had put it off. Incidently, I've put Plasteel in the modern era so I can give every city a dome on Near Future starts.

    Right, the Space terrain is intended to be square edged like that, and orbit uses the same texture. It should never occur naturally, you have to WB it in or else use one of my map scripts that puts it in. If it does occur naturally I'd like to know, so I can fix it.

    Yeah, but like I said, the future religions have a functional component and were not spreading fast enough, so I am trying giving them a little help. The corporations logos are lame, but way down the things to do list. I really have my doubts about adding all those extra rels. I was thinking of the next version, where I will expand it to the past (once I get this one to a glossy shine). Having all these religions in the tech trading options is kind of distracting in a way. And I had wanted for WestWire corporation, for example, to give you Superconductor early, but it turns out you don't get it till you have the tech.

    I guess you looked at the old old thread. Yeah so did I.

    Right, better salesmanship. I'll work on editing up the first post with some pictures and better presentation.

    Actually, I took the ultra zoom out. I'll put it back in for the optional version that has everything to scale.

    Land, Hover, and three Space Battleships.

    Well yeah, it works and its a generic sci fi mod. It totally doesn't crash and its not bad. However, there is a lot of stuff that could use more polish and fancification. I include absolutely no SDK mods so the SDK modcomp of your choice can be added.
     
  15. War Chicken

    War Chicken Chieftain

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    I've tried your MOD and I like it.

    I've noticed some Things which I think don't fit or that aren't working like they possibly should:

    1. During gameplay I regularly get the message "Judaism religion has become obsolete" (of cause with other religions as well). But it doesn't seem to have an impact to my cities. Also this message comes several times for one religion. I suppose something doesn't work as it should here.

    2. The building of Spaceships and Colonyspaceships is veeery lategame. When Playing the SolSystem or the Alpha Centauri Map youre stuck quite some time til you can expand.
    Too bad its not possible to play on several map "planes" like it was in CivII-ToT.

    3. Speaking of spaceships. Mine did all start with the "Blitz" promotion, which allowed them to attack several times per turn. Considering the immense Attack power and the even more immense movement compared to land and hoover units during that time - that's an instant win for the first to develop and build a Cutter Spaceship.
    Strangely my cutters could choose the promotion "advanced bridge (can attack multiple times per turn)", which is redundant to "blitz". I'd suggest removing "blitz" from spaceships and make "advanced bridge" either restrict to 3 Attacks per turn or being available after the 5th Combat promotion.

    4. One big problem I see is, that you're researching much faster than you're building.
    You build a unit and when it's finished it's often obsolete already - even if the game switches automatically to the newer unit during production it rarely takes 10 turns till a freshly produced unit is obsolete. Considering your huuuuge load of techs, this will be very hard to balance.

    I hope I was helpful.
     
  16. Tholish

    Tholish Chieftain

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    Each civ can have exactly 5 religions. Whenever any of the civs cities gets a sixth religion a randomly chosen religion goes obsolete for that civ. This is working as intended. There are 15 religions and it would become unmanageable to have 15 rels in every city. Also, the popularitiy of rels really does ebb and flow. Its kind of an "event." In fact that's exactly what it is. If a religion is gone from your civ, you can resurrect it in your civ by building missionaries if you have built a monastery or if you are running Free Religion. In fact I have also toned down the research benefit of monasteries, in the latest version, to 5 percent rather than 10, otherwise a player could cycle through all 15 rels and build 15 monasteries in every city for a 150 percent research bonus. At ten percent this is worth the effort, but at 5 percent it requires a great deal of focus compared to benefit. Building 15 monasteries and missionaries in every city and sticking to a mediocre civic is a pretty big effort compared to just Library and University, which gets the same.

    The Colony Ship now requires the Spaceport rather than the Spaceport tech, which is a fine distinction. If you build the admittedly very expensive Spaceport Prototype, which only requires Laser, you will have a Spaceport in every city, and can thus colonize other planets. Also, I have worried about this, but really the basic versions of spaceships are really kind of mid game and can be beelined. Maybe I should reduce the tech costs of that beeline a little. I'd like something like the ToT map planes for Orbit. Beyond that, the fact that your position on one plane affects your position on the other would be messed up. For other planets what would be ideal would be a completely separate map for the solar system, with moving objects (planets and spaceships). In contact with a planet, a spaceship can either enter its orbit or go out into interplanetary space. And I'd like the planets to have diagonal wrap. In the meantime, each planet "strip" is equivalent to a regular cylindrical planet....I've thought about the SpaceExplorer having some kind of colonization capabilities. Like building a fort which lets you rebase a spaceshuttle aircraft there that can make a colony. But the AI wouldn't use it right. Or maybe I will make the Spaceport Prototype available to up to 2 civs.

    PS, have you ever seen the AI expand across space (rather than merely into it)?

    You're right about the blitz. I'll get rid of it and just have the promotion. But I think the early spaceships, while powerfull, can be held off. Dreadnaughts (both tread and hover), Warbots, Giant Spiders, Hover Tanks and even plain old Modern Armor stand a chance in good numbers, and remember Spaceships cannot capture cities.

    Really? I find research crawling. Maybe I focus on production rather than research. I'll keep an eye on it, but if different players can get such different results maybe that indicates pretty good balance in a way. And what's wrong with obsolete units? Into the breach I say. The number of techs is exactly the same as the number in the regular BtS because I used the same exact tech positions (x,y) and prerequisite structure so the arrows would work. Up to now I have also kept the same test tube prices, except that I mulitplied the last two eras by steep multiplieers (I don't remember what they were, like 3 and 10 or something)

    Very.

    Edit: Very.
     
  17. War Chicken

    War Chicken Chieftain

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    Ah, now I understand. Thats a quite cool idea. Maybe I should read more Pedia entries...

    Yes and no. After it got available I started production of the Starport prototype in my city with most production...which took...160 Turns :cry:

    during half the time my city got quite some happyness and sickness problems because I didn't build any structures against that anymore, so I skipped it.
    It's been a pain.

    I suppose you're right if they don't have Blitz anymore. But with blitz I razored through my enemy's territory like hell broken loose. If they had to stop after like 3 attacks, giving the enemy the opportunity to do some ranged attacks against it and then hunting it down with an armor - that'd be a little more fair then.

    Hmmm. Maybe you're right. I mostly go for research early and not production.
    But maybe it's not research that's fast - maybe it's production that's slow.
    Did you change the buildcost oft he early Infantry units in consideration of the lack of production in the beginning? If not, that would quite explain my experiences.
    When my Infrastructure is up after like 150 Turns I was mostly able to produce quite fast.
     
  18. Tholish

    Tholish Chieftain

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    Actually the thing about rels isn't in the Civilopedia yet. I changed the build costs of the early infantry
    1. so they would upgrade cheaply, preventing musketmen in the future era
    2. out of logic. hand a guy a different kind of rifle and teach him new tactics for it versus build a tank from scratch. whole nother level.

    But for production you know you MUST have power. It greatly multiplies all factories: money for Consumer Goods factory, production for Heavy Factory and both for Industrial Park and Automated Factory). Forge doesn't benefit from it since it represents basically a glorified blacksmith shop. Of course if you build all that you'll need some heavy healing. Research Genetics, Cryogenics, stuff like that. Try Environmentalism: it multiplies the effects of health buildings, but of course it means you have to sacrifice some other Legal tech and thus might have reduced efficiency. Yes, I think halving in cost of the first Spaceport prototype would be good, then a second version that's a National Wonder could cost as the current one. Since this would be a savegame breaker, I might have to consolidate it with some other building.

    Latest version had a temporary flaw (no tech prereq for Software Studio). Reuploaded entire mod as version 1.12. Am working on improvements above, but will be gamebreaker, so as long as I'm doing that I might as well add a bunch of stuff so it will be a little while before a new full fledged version. There are issues with Space being useable and I'm working on that too. I'll just replace patches on the first patch. Fixed some of the stuff above and made patch 113...Fixed some more and made patch 114. Colony Ship should not have upgraded like it did. Eliminated barb units entirely, cities only. Still AI won't colonize space, Transhuman militia still has a siege tower. Spaceports still don't convey resources...

    I'm fixing up stuff, improving maps all the time, a whole series of just two planets with a 40 by 60 Earth and a 30 by 60 other planet separated by space on both sides. Better art coming. I'm using the new mounted ranger for the barb outlaw, a slightly touched up ute from fury road for the modern settler (instead of the humvee) some guys with crowbars as "vandals" to replace the current "ninja" et...I'm trying to get the AI to settle off planet. Made orbit and space both not impassable but merely TerrainImpassable to all units. Earth has to have a row of coast at each "pole" to prevent space rivers (I dont' know how to just manhandle them out of the mapscript like I'm doing mountains) and this may be keeping the AI from sending ColonyShips. Maybe I should take Found away from the workbot and make the Colony Ship a great person type so it can be granted free with techs.

    But I'm not posting another upgrade until I solve or get a solution for the airport problem.
     
  19. Tholish

    Tholish Chieftain

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    I'm taking that to heart, trying to make it better planned. Actually I put a lot of planning into many elements, and was somewhat startled. But its true in a way that there are many unplanned areas, my focus was so often on one spot and my method so dependent on techniques for harnessing serendipity. I'll try to improve this mod and make it what I wanted it to be, its so close.

    I'm fixing up stuff. Making the Transhuman militia unable to take cities will help. Improving maps all the time, a whole series of just two planets with a 40 by 60 Earth and a 30 by 60 other planet separated by space on both sides.

    Better art coming. I found Fury Road, and love its leaderheads but thats 90 mb. I'm using the new mounted ranger for the barb outlaw, a slightly touched up ute from fury road for the modern settler (instead of the humvee) some guys with crowbars as "vandals" to replace the current "ninja" etc...
    Theres some good music around, like the Ratchet and Clank used by Hrochland in his now defunct mod, but you know I'd rather use something public domain or free whenever I find it. Which I found. A great freeware portugese synthesizer piece thats perfect for future eras. Way lots of memory there. 70 mb for just one, and I wanted to go with one piece per future era, which will really be fat.


    I'm trying to get the AI to settle off planet. Made orbit and space both not impassable but merely TerrainImpassable to most units. Earth has to have a row of coast at each "pole" to prevent space rivers (I dont' know how to just manhandle them out of the mapscript like I'm doing mountains, which reminds me I need to iron out the stumps by having an ocean phase) and this may be keeping the AI from sending ColonyShips. Maybe I should take Found away from the workbot and make the Colony Ship a great person type so it can be granted free with techs.

    I've tweaked rels so the later ones have slight advantages, in various ways, but I really think the modcomp I included to make rels go obsolete is perfect, though it may seem appalling to have an important religion that you founded suddenly go obsolete because some obscure religion crops up in a remote province, go have a nice cry with the romans. Your state religion is protected and you can have a civic that prevents spread of non state religions. This is a challenge and sometimes a shock, but its just unfamiliair. It makes monasteries more meaningful as conservators rather than merely as missionary factories.

    The planet terrain stuff has been well rationalized, and I'll explain it in the civiliopedia next version.

    But I'm not posting another upgrade until I solve or get a solution for the airport problem. I have a modcomp for it which builds but I can't get either codeblocks or VC++2005 to finish a compile due to debugging.
     
  20. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Do I need anything from RTW? I deleted it becasue it was a major spacehog on my comp, and I really don't want to have to put it back in. If this mod does use assets from RTW, what are they?
     

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