G-Major 11

[Methos]

while hating my choice to be elizabeth and really wished i was gandhi again.

I typically play as Liz, but this time I'm giving Gandhi a try. Something WastinTime said has me curious, so I'm going to give it a go. Great map too, with three grass gems! Unfortunately, I don't think it'll be until this weekend before I can start it! Finals are this week....

 

[KMadCandy]

I typically play as Liz, but this time I'm giving Gandhi a try. Something WastinTime said has me curious, so I'm going to give it a go. Great map too, with three grass gems! Unfortunately, I don't think it'll be until this weekend before I can start it! Finals are this week....

good luck on finals! i needed a break from gandhi since i was him when vicky declared war and took my sistine chapel city grrrrrrr. but i think i do best as him, i've messed up this game (but am continuing since i'm learning from it) but not remembering i'm financial . and his UU is without a doubt the best for cultural games. well maybe the people that like the worker stealing thing prefer quechas, so they're allowed doubts. but for my style, fast workers 100%.

 

[Harbourboy]

Elizabeth rules. All that lovely money and all those great people.

 

[superslug]

you can do it too superslug! just remember ... make artists, not nukes. good, bad for this gauntlet.

So far, no good. I just haven't found a map I've liked yet. Maybe tonight I'll actually finally try that Mapfinder thing out....

 

[AnitaGaribaldi]

Pray to the RNG that he doesn't attack, and continue along my merry way to culture heaven.

I would be suprised if he doesn't attack. If I take no action, it's game over.

Can you bribe anyone into war with Louis? That'll keep him busy.
And get some defenses up as well.

How close is he?
That seems to make a big difference on wither the AIs attack. If he is next to you he will attack, Louis is like that. I like Ozbenno idea, bribe someone to do the dirty work.

He is my neighbor. We share borders.

Yes ... but if you're right next door and a sitting duck with warriors & archers, which is how it typically is in a culture game, he pretty much only needs to send in a couple of swordsmen and it's game over in terms of the cultural win.

I'm afraid I'd switch religions and do anything else I could to try to get him back to cautious rating - it worked for me in several of my games when various civs were teetering on the brink of invasion. And then I probably wouldn't include Louis in my next game - he's always irritable

You could also try "no state religion" instead of adopting his... even on Prince I find myself often with no religion in order to keep from annoying my neighbors. Also, if you have no state religion, then all religions give +! So that double-holy-city can have 10 instead of just 5!
ccccc: Favorite Civic Paganism?!

I don't have a state religion. The game I won, I had a state religion early on, but I spread it to my neighbors. Missionaries are cheaper than an army. But I found a lot of religions that game, this game I found only Taoism.

I usually go pacifism all the time, if you get one more GA with that, switching already payed itself.
If your neigbors are annoyed then you picked the wrong civs and/or didn't trade (and gift them) enough.

I am not running pacifism because my GP farm is not running. It has a good location, but it's taking sometime to clean all jungle. I've been building more workers than usual because of this.

Yes, diplomacy has failed. I haven't taken care of Louis well. I had him in another games and it was ok. I find hard to chose so many leaders. I always ruled out all agressive leaders, Julius Caesar, Saladin, Catherine and Isabella. I always choose Hatshepsut, Gandhi, Asoka, Mansa Musa and Cyrus, but I still need more three leaders. I've taken Louis and George Washington often. The other leader I don't remember.

do you mean you'll have nine cities even without taking his cities? in my game i have more cities than i need, it turns out. next try (whether i win or lose this one) i'll try it with fewer cities. it's costing me a lot but i'm learning a lot too. anyway, that should be a factor in your war, if you do have the war.

I'll have eight cities. Six cities plus two from Mansa. But I think his cities will take a while before flipping, I hope I'll be able to build more one or two cathedrals. I'm not paying the maintance cost of his cities now. The first game (my computer crashed three times, it was before I found out how to play large maps) I built nine cities, the research was too slow and the mantaince too high.

A few more details:
I have the tech lead right now. Not a very strong one, one or more then all civs. Louis is not very advanced, he is at least three techs behind. I'm one turn from Civil Service (I have Metal Casting, but I can't remember if I have Machinery).I thought of giving him techs, but I'm afraid it will not work and I'll help him to destroy me. I don't want to quit this game. I just fall in love for some games.

Thanks all for the replies!

 

[Harbourboy]

Do you guys really go through map after map until you find one that is just perfect? I always just go for the one I get given randomly. Does it really make that much difference? Is that why it took me so many attempts to get this? Because everyone else chooses the perfect map, no barbarians, and the ideal opponents?

 

[Methos]

I always choose Hatshepsut, Gandhi, Asoka, Mansa Musa and Cyrus, but I still need more three leaders.

Catherine, Frederick, Victoria

 

[Mutineer]

Do you guys really go through map after map until you find one that is just perfect? I always just go for the one I get given randomly. Does it really make that much difference? Is that why it took me so many attempts to get this? Because everyone else chooses the perfect map, no barbarians, and the ideal opponents?

Yes, this is HOF. That mean people will play the best map they can find with the rules, and tweak all parameters to make play as easy as posible.

That what I do not like about HOF, results here in no way reflect normal game.

 

[superslug]

Yes, this is HOF. That mean people will play the best map they can find with the rules, and tweak all parameters to make play as easy as posible.

That what I do not like about HOF, results here in no way reflect normal game.

I think it's most accurate to say that everyone plays according to what they find satisfying. Certainly some look for every possible advantage and go for records, and that's great because it is the CFC Hall of Fame, but I think we underestimate how many players play for the fun and camraderie of just being on the same Gauntlet list as great players.

Me, I'd be happy for a win in this Gauntlet. Any win. And as far as a map goes, I just want to start with marble....

 

[KMadCandy]

Do you guys really go through map after map until you find one that is just perfect? I always just go for the one I get given randomly. Does it really make that much difference? Is that why it took me so many attempts to get this? Because everyone else chooses the perfect map, no barbarians, and the ideal opponents?

note that i do respect mutineer, he's an amazingly skilled civ4 player and has taught me a lot. he even gave me advice just last night that will have saved my current gauntlet attempt, if it does end in a win (it ain't over). i however am not anywhere NEAR his level in ability or skill. he knows this and is kind and friendly to me anyway *giggle*.

i do regenerate maps, in both HoF games and in games i play just for fun. i know, the thought shocks methos, but sometimes i do play games that i don't send to HoF . for me, a game is more fun if it looks like i have a chance from the start, and since it is a game, my goal is to have fun, not be frustrated early on. i don't regenerate 80,000 times until i get ultimate perfection, but i definitely don't automatically take what i'm given the first time regardless of what it is. some people regard that as a form of cheating, i do not.

if you're playing HoF, follow HoF rules, in an SG go with the SG rules, etc. but IMO, in your own truly singleplayer games, do whatever you want, since fundamentally it is a game and the point of it is to have fun, and the definition of fun is very personal. if it's more fun, or more challenging (which is part of the fun for you) to not allow yourself certain options that i do allow myself, that's cool. as i said previously, i'm really really impressed with your win, harbourboy, regardless of the date. i could not have achieved it, with those opponents, maybe not even at settler level. you are for sure a better man than i am! then again, i'm a girl...

my personal history, i'm trying for QM because i used to be a totally major hardcore reloader. i mean the WORST, from way way back, before i ever even heard of civ, possibly before some of y'all were born. i wanted to break the habit, and i started to, and then found out about HoF, and was like oh cool, here's motivation to even more! they'll know if i did! and now i don't even miss it, i've become a much better player. and i want my QM box filled out just as a silly way to show myself that i don't reload any more. it certainly won't show that i'm one of the best players, i know that i'm not really. but i like that you can reach QM by competing only against yourself, and that's why i'm here. for me it's not about reflecting a normal game or about "OMG i want to be on the top 10 so everyone thinks i'm the goddess of high scores"

and the people here are way too cool. i have learned so much! seems nobody here is trying to hog the top 10 spots, they share so many tips and strategies. that is so generous and so fun for me and i just think it's completely 100% awesome. plus you guys make me laugh.

 

[Harbourboy]

But does reloading maps really make that much difference? Aren't the random starting locations always reasonably well balanced? It shows how much attention I have been paying, as I never really notice any starts being that much better or worse than any others.

 

[The-Hawk]

Do you guys really go through map after map until you find one that is just perfect? I always just go for the one I get given randomly. Does it really make that much difference? Is that why it took me so many attempts to get this? Because everyone else chooses the perfect map, no barbarians, and the ideal opponents?

Mapfinder is your friend, speeds up the process considerably.

For HOF, I look for a good start, not necessarily great. I don't have that much patience. For example, my first try on this gauntlet (1649 finish) had no marble and no calendar resources anywhere in my nine city region (never bothered to research calendar). Needless to say, happiness was a challenge.

Depending on the victory condition, I may or may not choose my opponents. For fast space or culture, you want to minimize the distraction of war so you choose friendly AI's. My favorite 10 are Asoka, Liz, Fred, Ghandi, Hatty, Mansa, Qin, Roosevelt, Saladin, and Vicky. (For this gauntlet I played Liz... absolutely love her traits for culture.) For conquest or dom, it doesn't matter who the opponents are . Diplo depends on whether you plan to get voted in, or do diplo by dom. I never play barbs, pure time waster.

Why be selective? I suspect I could win the majority of the time under this gauntlet's conditions with random starts and barbs on. However, the goal of HOF is fast finishes. No way to do that with a lousy start. If everybody played completely random starts, then the winner would be the person who was luckiest in map generation, not necessarily the best player.

Of course, even with a good start, I'm not sure I will finish in the same century as WastinTime . Maybe I should hold out for a perfect start after all...

 

[KMadCandy]

But does reloading maps really make that much difference? Aren't the random starting locations always reasonably well balanced? It shows how much attention I have been paying, as I never really notice any starts being that much better or worse than any others.

i think that for the initial, capital starting location, it does make a difference, and that some are better than others. some folks really want marble, to speed up the building of the parthenon, sistine chapel, the oracle. i adore having grassland gems, or gold on a hill if i also have enough food to work it, if i start out with mining (both liz and gandhi do, they're the leader i've tried this gauntlet). the big commerce boost early on from the gems or gold gives my research a kick.

once the game gets going, and your empire starts spreading out, and you can see more of the map as a whole and consider the big picture, then yes things start getting "reasonably well balanced" in most cases. but in that little box of say, 15 to 25ish visible tiles (if you take the risk of moving your settler first turn) that you have available to consider when choosing out the 21 tiles that you will be your initial capital, there can be big differences. and since that's your first city, and will remain your main city for quite a long time, any advantages you get there add up, and that has a snowball effect that can keep adding up, so on and so forth. you can move your palace later, but for a long time it'll be the the heart of your empire.

i don't absolutely stack the deck in my favor except in OCCs; there i do have standards and i don't give in til i see something beautiful *giggle*, since it's the only city i will ever ever have. i will not start a one-city-challenge game without gems or gold and 2 food resources, and it has to be on freshwater for health, i'm stubborn . but i do, for all games, HoF or not, want a capital that looks like it's one i can work with, that stands a reasonable chance of having a semi-sort-of reasonable balance of production, food, commerce, and pretty scenery. it just makes the game more fun for me, and that's the point of playing, is to have fun.

so, that's why i regen. if i get a bad capital, i get frustrated, and it's not fun for me. i do like a challenge, but i don't like the feeling of hitting a brick wall, and i admit i'm not a top-of-the-line player. so i don't want to start out with one hand tied behind my back. even tho i do regen i don't ever come close to being the fastest finisher in a gauntlet. and that's fine with me. all i want to do is know whether i could win that type of game, i'm not a competitive personality as far as having the drive to beat other folks. so there's your proof i'm not a top-of-the-line player by any means .

 

[Harbourboy]

I don't think I could ever get into the mindset of selecting my opponents or regenerating starting positions (to the extent of even having a separate program, MapFinder, that does that for you!). That just seems too weird to me, like turning off half of the functionality of the game.

But each to their own.

But I still don't think I have ever seen a starting location so bad that it makes me want to give up. You can always work with it somehow, and it probably means there is something awesome just around the corner to make up for it. I would be suspicious of a tarting location with lots of resources as it probably means there is no iron in that whole hemisphere or something.

 

[KMadCandy]

But I still don't think I have ever seen a starting location so bad that it makes me want to give up. You can always work with it somehow, and it probably means there is something awesome just around the corner to make up for it.

now see, i'd phrase that differently. i'd state it as "a player with sufficient skill can always work with any given start somehow and make it successful." see? i'm just a permanoob, so i don't trust myself to do that but that's part of what i love about the game, that so many different kinds of people can have fun in their own ways with it; there's no "one true way" that you have to play.

 

[ccccc]

I don't regenerate the starting maps, but I do give up at ~2000 BC often, without considering it to be a loss. I guess when I said I won on my "first try," I was stretching a little, since I had redone the very beginning a couple of times in order to grab Buddhism and some early commerce.

 

[AnitaGaribaldi]

I bribed two civs against Louis. He is now at the bottom of the power graf. All my neighbors but Louis share my state religion. It was hard to convert Cyrus, I needed to spread my state religion to four cities. I have a small army, I'm no longer so vunerable. All this might still cost my victory. I lost Liberalism for one turn. I don't know if I will win before the AI launches, but I do think I will survive.

 

[AAA]

I bribed two civs against Louis. He is now at the bottom of the power graf. All my neighbors but Louis share my state religion. It was hard to convert Cyrus, I needed to spread my state religion to four cities. I have a small army, I'm no longer so vunerable. All this might still cost my victory. I lost Liberalism for one turn. I don't know if I will win before the AI launches, but I do think I will survive.

Still, there always a certain pleasure in seeing the AI stinkers getting what they deserve.
It always amazes me that I actually "like" or "dislike" certain AIs. They are just computer subroutines.

 

[Mutineer]

well, what you think people are? People are just a different computers that run different subroutines!

 

[KMadCandy]

well, what you think people are? People are just a different computers that run different subroutines!

i really ought to be in bed dreaming of electric sheep right now.

curse this insomnia! at least it's giving me more time to try the gauntlet. nobody's killed me or built apollo yet, yay. but i'm at that point where i can't tell how far behind i am in tech, since i'm soooooo far behind that the prereqs are blocking me from seeing things on the trade page .